Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

[ChrisL]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

 

[ding]

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

People have believed in a bunch of different gods throughout history. I'm sure the Greeks, etc. all believed just as strongly in their gods as you do about yours.

And yet it was the Civilization that was built on a Christian foundation which has been the most successful. Why do you believe that is?

This civilization was also built by europeans, for the most part. You ttribute it to the beliefs. Others attribute it to the actual people who made it happen.

Yes, and Europe was built on Christian values and faith. It originated there.

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

And their values that their society was built upon were informed by Christianity.

 

[Vastator]

His ministry has never been proven to have actually taken place. None the less... What is true is that the followers of the Hebrew god destroyed and conquered European civilization, and replaced the native peoples cultures with a "god" that was never their own. Was never the god of thier fore bearers. Indeed those who spread the Christian faith helped determine the shape of western civilization. By the time the enslaved people broke free of the Roman Empire, thier histories for a great part had been erased from knowledge. Ironically they became the perpetuators of thier ancestors enslavers. And whereby continue to enslave themselves. I chose not to continue the cycle.

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

Which virtues?

Two loving people will always have a better relationship than two hateful people. Two thankful people will always have a better relationship than two thankful people. Two forgiving people will always have a better relationship than two revengeful people. Two kind people will always have a better relationship than two cruel people. Two honest people will always have a better relationship than two dishonest people. Not some of the time, all of the time. The same principle applies to nations as well.

Have you ever been in love?

Which virtues? Can you list the virtues that your morality are founded on? Virtues have names. They can be listed. They don't require parables.

 

[ChrisL]

People have believed in a bunch of different gods throughout history. I'm sure the Greeks, etc. all believed just as strongly in their gods as you do about yours.

And yet it was the Civilization that was built on a Christian foundation which has been the most successful. Why do you believe that is?

This civilization was also built by europeans, for the most part. You ttribute it to the beliefs. Others attribute it to the actual people who made it happen.

Yes, and Europe was built on Christian values and faith. It originated there.

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

And their values that their society was built upon was informed by Christianity.

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

 

[ding]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

 

[ding]

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

Which virtues?

Two loving people will always have a better relationship than two hateful people. Two thankful people will always have a better relationship than two thankful people. Two forgiving people will always have a better relationship than two revengeful people. Two kind people will always have a better relationship than two cruel people. Two honest people will always have a better relationship than two dishonest people. Not some of the time, all of the time. The same principle applies to nations as well.

Have you ever been in love?

Which virtues? Can you lost the virtues that your morality are founded on? Virtues have names. They can be listed. They don't require parables.

I just did list them and I listed their antithesis as well.

Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

 

[ChrisL]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

 

[ding]

And yet it was the Civilization that was built on a Christian foundation which has been the most successful. Why do you believe that is?

This civilization was also built by europeans, for the most part. You ttribute it to the beliefs. Others attribute it to the actual people who made it happen.

Yes, and Europe was built on Christian values and faith. It originated there.

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

And their values that their society was built upon was informed by Christianity.

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

 

[ChrisL]

This civilization was also built by europeans, for the most part. You ttribute it to the beliefs. Others attribute it to the actual people who made it happen.

Yes, and Europe was built on Christian values and faith. It originated there.

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

And their values that their society was built upon was informed by Christianity.

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

 

[ding]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

 

[MaryL]

If Christianity is bad, why defend Islam, all I am sayin? Just asking.

 

[ding]

Yes, and Europe was built on Christian values and faith. It originated there.

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

And their values that their society was built upon was informed by Christianity.

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

so why in 2000 years of goodness are the christians that have always been in the majority not loved to death by every person on earth ... including their brethren the jews.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

 

[ChrisL]

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

And their values that their society was built upon was informed by Christianity.

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

 

[Vastator]

A man is remembered by his deeds. If his deeds are great, others will take note of what motivated them to achieve said deeds. It is ones virtues that, by which a man measures his steps. If his steps are chosen carefully he will attain heights that will inspire others, where by not only does his name live on, but so too will the importance of his virtues.

 

[ding]

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

 

[ChrisL]

Everyone has SOMETHING good about them. Even murderer's family members still love them a lot of times.

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

I already addressed that question.

 

[ding]

And their values that their society was built upon was informed by Christianity.

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

 

[ding]

Yep. Attila the Hun did his deeds for his good and for the good of his family. That didn't make it right.

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

I already addressed that question.

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?