Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

[ding]

Really? His ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years and He has had a lasting impact on mankind for 2000 years which was the foundation for the Western Civilization which has done more good for mankind than any other civilization in the history of man. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day.

His ministry has never been proven to have actually taken place. None the less... What is true is that the followers of the Hebrew god destroyed and conquered European civilization, and replaced the native peoples cultures with a "god" that was never their own. Was never the god of thier fore bearers. Indeed those who spread the Christian faith helped determine the shape of western civilization. By the time the enslaved people broke free of the Roman Empire, thier histories for a great part had been erased from knowledge. Ironically they became the perpetuators of thier ancestors enslavers. And whereby continue to enslave themselves. I chose not to continue the cycle.

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

I don't see only the bad. I was telling YOU that Christianity was not always a "good" thing.

I agree. One must weigh the good and the bad. But by any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good. In fact, your own values - whether you will acknowledge it or not - were based on Christian values.

 

[ChrisL]

His ministry has never been proven to have actually taken place. None the less... What is true is that the followers of the Hebrew god destroyed and conquered European civilization, and replaced the native peoples cultures with a "god" that was never their own. Was never the god of thier fore bearers. Indeed those who spread the Christian faith helped determine the shape of western civilization. By the time the enslaved people broke free of the Roman Empire, thier histories for a great part had been erased from knowledge. Ironically they became the perpetuators of thier ancestors enslavers. And whereby continue to enslave themselves. I chose not to continue the cycle.

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

I don't see only the bad. I was telling YOU that Christianity was not always a "good" thing.

I agree. One must weigh the good and the bad. But by any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good. In fact, your own values - whether you will acknowledge it or not - were based on Christian values.

My values are based on my brain, my conscience, my education, and society in general. Do you think that everyone who is not a Christian commits evil deeds??

 

[BreezeWood]

.
humanity has striven forward inspite of 4th century christianity and medieval monarchical governance, etc. by the heroics of a few and those but by far and between.

 

[Vastator]

I agree that life isn't a sin. As I said before I understand Sin to be a man made construct accredited to the Hebrew god. As far as anyone can verify life is absolutely finite. Lastly; don't live in Christ. I live in Alabama! LOL.
But ironically, all kidding aside. Christ lives only in the minds of men. Were one to erase his name from the religious histories and killed all who knew how to form the sound of his name he'd be gone; yet no more diminished than now.

Really? His ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years and He has had a lasting impact on mankind for 2000 years which was the foundation for the Western Civilization which has done more good for mankind than any other civilization in the history of man. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day.

I realize that this is what many believe to be truth. I don't begrudge them for it.

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

Men effect the world predicated on what they believe, attribute to him. Kinda like what men are doing in the. And of allah as directed by Mohammed. There is nothing inexplicable about it.

You don't believe it was inexplicable for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day and only ministered for 3 1/2 years and created a 2000 year legacy which was the foundation for the greatest force for good in the history of mankind is inexplicable?

Are you seriously comparing the outcome of Christianity to Islam?

Again. That is only your opinion, in regard to it being the "greatest force of good". In truth the brainwashed followers of the Hebrew God slew our ancestors destroyed their cultures, erased our histories, and brain washed their children into mistaking an alien faith as thier own. A transgression which persists till this day.

 

[Brynmr]

I am a Islamophobic. Islam scares the hell out of any rational person. Islam is a hate or cult group based on a irrational emotional belief system .Mohamed and his prophesy was as real as the Easter bunny, why are we catering to this? Give me a break here.

You're not an islamophobe. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Nothing irrational about fearing Islam.

 

[ding]

Why all the bugging people about THEIR beliefs (or lack of). You religious folks don't like when that is done to you, yet here you are!

Like it or not, there are some of us out there who are NOT religious (or at least not in the same way as you are). Are we allowed to talk about how WE feel, or do we have to pretend to believe in your god or else you will bother us about it endlessly whenever we try to discuss the topic?

I'm perfectly happy for you to believe as you do. I couldn't care less, and I don't mean that in a bad way either.

Let me ask you this question. Do you believe that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure? Or do you believe everything is blind luck?

It depends on the person and the context! For some, it is luck. For others, it's hard work.

Do you believe your success was a result of hard work?

What business is it of yours? What does it have to do with this thread?

I'm trying to prove a point. Most people see themselves a certain way and others a different way. The reality is that if you believe your success was based on hard work, it would be illogical not to see others the same way. Especially when it should be obvious that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. It should be obvious to everyone that someone who stays home studying most of the time has a better chance of a good outcome than someone who goes out partying most of the time. The same thing applies to societies and nations. It is not a surprise when a nation which practices good behavior succeeds and a nation which practices failed behaviors fails. The proof is in the pudding. If you don't want to have this conversation, I'm cool with that. I just thought that I should provide a different perspective on Christianity. It seems to me that people are so focused on the negatives that they are ignoring the self evident truths about the positives.

 

[ding]

Really? His ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years and He has had a lasting impact on mankind for 2000 years which was the foundation for the Western Civilization which has done more good for mankind than any other civilization in the history of man. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day.

I realize that this is what many believe to be truth. I don't begrudge them for it.

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

Men effect the world predicated on what they believe, attribute to him. Kinda like what men are doing in the. And of allah as directed by Mohammed. There is nothing inexplicable about it.

You don't believe it was inexplicable for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day and only ministered for 3 1/2 years and created a 2000 year legacy which was the foundation for the greatest force for good in the history of mankind is inexplicable?

Are you seriously comparing the outcome of Christianity to Islam?

Again. That is only your opinion, in regard to it being the "greatest force of good". In truth the brainwashed followers of the Hebrew God slew our ancestors destroyed their cultures, erased our histories, and brain washed their children into mistaking an alien faith as thier own. A transgression which persists till this day.

I don't believe you can be objective about religion because you don't believe you can be wrong about it, not because your beliefs are based on factual evidence but because you don't seem to be capable of having a balanced view of history. If you wish to believe that Christianity is evil, go right ahead. That is your mistake to make. I think I have proven my point already.

 

[Vastator]

I agree that life isn't a sin. As I said before I understand Sin to be a man made construct accredited to the Hebrew god. As far as anyone can verify life is absolutely finite. Lastly; don't live in Christ. I live in Alabama! LOL.
But ironically, all kidding aside. Christ lives only in the minds of men. Were one to erase his name from the religious histories and killed all who knew how to form the sound of his name he'd be gone; yet no more diminished than now.

Really? His ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years and He has had a lasting impact on mankind for 2000 years which was the foundation for the Western Civilization which has done more good for mankind than any other civilization in the history of man. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day.

His ministry has never been proven to have actually taken place. None the less... What is true is that the followers of the Hebrew god destroyed and conquered European civilization, and replaced the native peoples cultures with a "god" that was never their own. Was never the god of thier fore bearers. Indeed those who spread the Christian faith helped determine the shape of western civilization. By the time the enslaved people broke free of the Roman Empire, thier histories for a great part had been erased from knowledge. Ironically they became the perpetuators of thier ancestors enslavers. And whereby continue to enslave themselves. I chose not to continue the cycle.

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

Which virtues?

 

[Brynmr]

I would guess we all want the same thing - essentially. So the various religions are simply different paths to the same goal. If we want eating enjoyment we'll all chose different food to achieve this enjoyment. Different food - same goal.

 

[Vastator]

I realize that this is what many believe to be truth. I don't begrudge them for it.

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

People have believed in a bunch of different gods throughout history. I'm sure the Greeks, etc. all believed just as strongly in their gods as you do about yours.

And yet it was the Civilization that was built on a Christian foundation which has been the most successful. Why do you believe that is?

This civilization was also built by europeans, for the most part. You ttribute it to the beliefs. Others attribute it to the actual people who made it happen.

Yes, and Europe was built on Christian values and faith. It originated there.

It was built by European ingenuity. European creativity. And European intellect.

 

[ding]

Really? His ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years and He has had a lasting impact on mankind for 2000 years which was the foundation for the Western Civilization which has done more good for mankind than any other civilization in the history of man. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day.

His ministry has never been proven to have actually taken place. None the less... What is true is that the followers of the Hebrew god destroyed and conquered European civilization, and replaced the native peoples cultures with a "god" that was never their own. Was never the god of thier fore bearers. Indeed those who spread the Christian faith helped determine the shape of western civilization. By the time the enslaved people broke free of the Roman Empire, thier histories for a great part had been erased from knowledge. Ironically they became the perpetuators of thier ancestors enslavers. And whereby continue to enslave themselves. I chose not to continue the cycle.

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

Which virtues?

Two loving people will always have a better relationship than two hateful people. Two thankful people will always have a better relationship than two thankful people. Two forgiving people will always have a better relationship than two revengeful people. Two kind people will always have a better relationship than two cruel people. Two honest people will always have a better relationship than two dishonest people. Not some of the time, all of the time. The same principle applies to nations as well.

Have you ever been in love?

 

[Vastator]

I realize that this is what many believe to be truth. I don't begrudge them for it.

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

Men effect the world predicated on what they believe, attribute to him. Kinda like what men are doing in the. And of allah as directed by Mohammed. There is nothing inexplicable about it.

You don't believe it was inexplicable for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day and only ministered for 3 1/2 years and created a 2000 year legacy which was the foundation for the greatest force for good in the history of mankind is inexplicable?

Are you seriously comparing the outcome of Christianity to Islam?

Again. That is only your opinion, in regard to it being the "greatest force of good". In truth the brainwashed followers of the Hebrew God slew our ancestors destroyed their cultures, erased our histories, and brain washed their children into mistaking an alien faith as thier own. A transgression which persists till this day.

I don't believe you can be objective about religion because you don't believe you can be wrong about it, not because your beliefs are based on factual evidence but because you don't seem to be capable of having a balanced view of history. If you wish to believe that Christianity is evil, go right ahead. That is your mistake to make. I think I have proven my point already.

You've made a point. Though I'm not sure its the one you were aiming for.

 

[ChrisL]

Why all the bugging people about THEIR beliefs (or lack of). You religious folks don't like when that is done to you, yet here you are!

Like it or not, there are some of us out there who are NOT religious (or at least not in the same way as you are). Are we allowed to talk about how WE feel, or do we have to pretend to believe in your god or else you will bother us about it endlessly whenever we try to discuss the topic?

I'm perfectly happy for you to believe as you do. I couldn't care less, and I don't mean that in a bad way either.

Let me ask you this question. Do you believe that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure? Or do you believe everything is blind luck?

It depends on the person and the context! For some, it is luck. For others, it's hard work.

Do you believe your success was a result of hard work?

What business is it of yours? What does it have to do with this thread?

I'm trying to prove a point. Most people see themselves a certain way and others a different way. The reality is that if you believe your success was based on hard work, it would be illogical not to see others the same way. Especially when it should be obvious that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. It should be obvious to everyone that someone who stays home studying most of the time has a better chance of a good outcome than someone who goes out partying most of the time. The same thing applies to societies and nations. It is not a surprise when a nation which practices good behavior succeeds and a nation which practices failed behaviors fails. The proof is in the pudding. If you don't want to have this conversation, I'm cool with that. I just thought that I should provide a different perspective on Christianity. It seems to me that people are so focused on the negatives that they are ignoring the self evident truths about the positives.

I knodw plenty of people who partied in high school/college who are successful adults.

You can have good behavior without worshiping a deity. Unfortunately, I do agree that SOME people need some kind of structure and threat of punishment in order to do the right thing.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
were it that important as the crucible of humanity why were the 3 1/2 years spent all in the middle east and probably within 100 miles than for that message to have been taken to all 4 corners of the globe as surly if Jesus was what the 4th century book describes could easily have reached the various civilizations in that period of time.

 

[ding]

I see. It seems like you have a great handle on all the bad but not such a good handle on the good which is surprising because by any objective measure Western Civilization has been a force for good. One might wonder why the atheistic governments were so bad and the Christian societies were so good. But putting that aside, how exactly do you reconcile the good that has come from Christian societies?

That has not always been the case.

I submit to you that you have only focused on the bad and not the good. Virtue is the ultimate organizing principle. It is not possible for a society to succeed and flourish without it. So while you may only see the bad, I can assure you that the outcome would not have been what it has been unless there was good within it.

I don't see only the bad. I was telling YOU that Christianity was not always a "good" thing.

I agree. One must weigh the good and the bad. But by any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good. In fact, your own values - whether you will acknowledge it or not - were based on Christian values.

My values are based on my brain, my conscience, my education, and society in general. Do you think that everyone who is not a Christian commits evil deeds??

No I don't believe that everyone who is not a Christian commits evil deeds. I believe that we prefer good over evil and when we violate it, instead of abandoning the concept we rationalize that we didn't do evil. In fact, no one does evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. I believe that we are all born with an innate sense of right and wrong. I believe that there is a morality progression. I also believe that your values were informed by society and that those were based upon Christian values.

 

[Vastator]

I realize that this is what many believe to be truth. I don't begrudge them for it.

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

Men effect the world predicated on what they believe, attribute to him. Kinda like what men are doing in the. And of allah as directed by Mohammed. There is nothing inexplicable about it.

You don't believe it was inexplicable for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day and only ministered for 3 1/2 years and created a 2000 year legacy which was the foundation for the greatest force for good in the history of mankind is inexplicable?

Are you seriously comparing the outcome of Christianity to Islam?

Again. That is only your opinion, in regard to it being the "greatest force of good". In truth the brainwashed followers of the Hebrew God slew our ancestors destroyed their cultures, erased our histories, and brain washed their children into mistaking an alien faith as thier own. A transgression which persists till this day.

I don't believe you can be objective about religion because you don't believe you can be wrong about it, not because your beliefs are based on factual evidence but because you don't seem to be capable of having a balanced view of history. If you wish to believe that Christianity is evil, go right ahead. That is your mistake to make. I think I have proven my point already.

Not looking to argue with you. You are free to "believe" what you will. However your belief that another cannot see this matter objectively simply stems from them not seeing it your way... There's a lot of irony in that post of yours...

 

[ding]

I don't believe Christianity is "evil." I don't believe in "evil" in the supernatural sense of the word. People are people, and they are fallible, and some people suffer from mental illness. Those people are sick in the head, not evil.

Evil is the absence of good as cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light and hate is the absence of love.

 

[MaryL]

I am a Islamophobic. Islam scares the hell out of any rational person. Islam is a hate or cult group based on a irrational emotional belief system .Mohamed and his prophesy was as real as the Easter bunny, why are we catering to this? Give me a break here.

You're not an islamophobe. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Nothing irrational about fearing Islam.

Woody Allen once said: It's not actually paranoia if they are actually after you. Something like that. Islamophobia is like that.

 

[ding]

That's nice. We appreciate that. But if it were as you say, that He only lives in our minds, how do you explain the inexplicableness of His affect on the world?

Men effect the world predicated on what they believe, attribute to him. Kinda like what men are doing in the. And of allah as directed by Mohammed. There is nothing inexplicable about it.

You don't believe it was inexplicable for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day and only ministered for 3 1/2 years and created a 2000 year legacy which was the foundation for the greatest force for good in the history of mankind is inexplicable?

Are you seriously comparing the outcome of Christianity to Islam?

Again. That is only your opinion, in regard to it being the "greatest force of good". In truth the brainwashed followers of the Hebrew God slew our ancestors destroyed their cultures, erased our histories, and brain washed their children into mistaking an alien faith as thier own. A transgression which persists till this day.

I don't believe you can be objective about religion because you don't believe you can be wrong about it, not because your beliefs are based on factual evidence but because you don't seem to be capable of having a balanced view of history. If you wish to believe that Christianity is evil, go right ahead. That is your mistake to make. I think I have proven my point already.

Not looking to argue with you. You are free to "believe" what you will. However your belief that another cannot see this matter objectively simply stems from them not seeing it your way... There's a lot of irony in that post of yours...

I'm not looking to argue with you either. Growth filled communities explore all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. Honest men can have honest differences of opinions without having to act like jerks or be afraid to express their opinion. What irony do you see in my comments?