CDZ Why do Conservatives believe that America is no longer great?

[Correll]

Is that your example?

The Supreme Court can be wrong. It has been wrong. It has been very close to being wrong. It will be wrong again.

What I've seen is people cite the Supreme Court as an Authority as though that ends the debate on a political issue.

If that was the case, slavery would still be legal.

I'm sure that is not what you support.

The court can be wrong like it was with plessy v Ferguson, Dred Scott, bush v gore, citizens United, hobby lobby and heller. That does not give people the right to disobey the law.

Same as the loony "patriots" in Oregon had no right to raise arms against federal officers.

And no slavery wouldn't still be legal. but segregation would be but for people obeying the court.

If the COurt is wrong and obeying it would be harmful to the nation, then disobeying might very well be the act of a Patriot.

So the state of New York should violate heller?

Who decides what is harmful? The pretend patriots in Oregon?

See how that works.

What's bothering you Jillian?

YOu're mostly getting your lib way.

You didn't expect Traditional Americans to just smile and bow out did you?

YOu know. If you keep getting your way, and keep marginalizing and dismissing everyone you disagree with, we will only grow more and more angry as time goes on.

If you haven't considered that before, it is time to do it now.

your questions are odd. nothing is bothering me.

again no one is marginalizing you. i'm not sure what you think does. i think you're a little oversensitive. either that or you think you should go around our entire governmental system and try to force things only a teeny minority of people want ... on the rest of us.

And yet you reflexively cite the Supreme Court and not the Legislature....

Where the Majority is supposed to write the laws....


Odd that, if your ideological opponents are such a teeny minority.

 

[jillian]

The court can be wrong like it was with plessy v Ferguson, Dred Scott, bush v gore, citizens United, hobby lobby and heller. That does not give people the right to disobey the law.

Same as the loony "patriots" in Oregon had no right to raise arms against federal officers.

And no slavery wouldn't still be legal. but segregation would be but for people obeying the court.

If the COurt is wrong and obeying it would be harmful to the nation, then disobeying might very well be the act of a Patriot.

So the state of New York should violate heller?

Who decides what is harmful? The pretend patriots in Oregon?

See how that works.

What's bothering you Jillian?

YOu're mostly getting your lib way.

You didn't expect Traditional Americans to just smile and bow out did you?

YOu know. If you keep getting your way, and keep marginalizing and dismissing everyone you disagree with, we will only grow more and more angry as time goes on.

If you haven't considered that before, it is time to do it now.

your questions are odd. nothing is bothering me.

again no one is marginalizing you. i'm not sure what you think does. i think you're a little oversensitive. either that or you think you should go around our entire governmental system and try to force things only a teeny minority of people want ... on the rest of us.

And yet you reflexively cite the Supreme Court and not the Legislature....

Where the Majority is supposed to write the laws....


Odd that, if your ideological opponents are such a teeny minority.

because it is the court that determines what is constitutional.... not the legislature. legislatures don't care about violating people's rights. (see, jim crow laws)

i'm all about the court. that's what they're there for. it seems you're confused about what their job is. the court exists to protect the minority FROM the majority. the majority in mississippi would still vote for jim crow.

there is nothing odd except for your refusal to understand our system of government.

 

[rightwinger]

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime"
But what do you do when there are no more fish in the pond?
That is the problem with our poor communities

And Trump is the only one prepared to address that one.

Trump is very protective of his ponds and does not allow poor people to fish in them

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

 

[JoeMoma]

View attachment 63222

The civil war reversed state rights.

 

[Si modo]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

 

[JoeMoma]

And Trump is the only one prepared to address that one.

Trump is very protective of his ponds and does not allow poor people to fish in them

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step (and may result in feet that hurt like hell).

 

[jillian]

View attachment 63222

The civil war reversed state rights.

the civil war just put the issue to rest. changing from the articles of confederation to the constitution effectively limited states' rights.

it's funny how the net-confederate insurrectionists think they should be able to violate the federal constitution. even with states' rights the constitution is superior. (see supremacy clause).

and for the record, and with all due respect, bigots should be marginalized and not allowed to violate the rights of others. just saying.

 

[JoeMoma]

Because Nanny States are not great!

 

[Correll]

If the COurt is wrong and obeying it would be harmful to the nation, then disobeying might very well be the act of a Patriot.

So the state of New York should violate heller?

Who decides what is harmful? The pretend patriots in Oregon?

See how that works.

What's bothering you Jillian?

YOu're mostly getting your lib way.

You didn't expect Traditional Americans to just smile and bow out did you?

YOu know. If you keep getting your way, and keep marginalizing and dismissing everyone you disagree with, we will only grow more and more angry as time goes on.

If you haven't considered that before, it is time to do it now.

your questions are odd. nothing is bothering me.

again no one is marginalizing you. i'm not sure what you think does. i think you're a little oversensitive. either that or you think you should go around our entire governmental system and try to force things only a teeny minority of people want ... on the rest of us.

And yet you reflexively cite the Supreme Court and not the Legislature....

Where the Majority is supposed to write the laws....


Odd that, if your ideological opponents are such a teeny minority.

because it is the court that determines what is constitutional.... not the legislature. legislatures don't care about violating people's rights. (see, jim crow laws)

i'm all about the court. that's what they're there for. it seems you're confused about what their job is. the court exists to protect the minority FROM the majority. the majority in mississippi would still vote for jim crow.

there is nothing odd except for your refusal to understand our system of government.

Mmm, nope.

It would be just as likely for a would be Patriot to disobey an unjust Legislative Law as opposed to an unjust COurt ruling.

But you fixated on Court rulings. Despite claiming that your ideological opponents are a "Teeny minority".


And the Court is not about "minorities" it is about the Rights of the Individuals in question.

In Ricci v. DeStefano they, barely, protected members of the Majority from the abuse of liberals discriminating against them in favor of the Minority.

Bet none of you liberals consider that ruling final.

 

[JoeMoma]

View attachment 63222

The civil war reversed state rights.

the civil war just put the issue to rest. changing from the articles of confederation to the constitution effectively limited states' rights.

it's funny how the net-confederate insurrectionists think they should be able to violate the federal constitution. even with states' rights the constitution is superior. (see supremacy clause).

and for the record, and with all due respect, bigots should be marginalized and not allowed to violate the rights of others. just saying.

See the tenth admendment. Then look at all the powers that the federal government has given itself that are not specified in the constitution. Just saying.

 

[Correll]

And Trump is the only one prepared to address that one.

Trump is very protective of his ponds and does not allow poor people to fish in them

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

 

[jillian]

View attachment 63222

The civil war reversed state rights.

the civil war just put the issue to rest. changing from the articles of confederation to the constitution effectively limited states' rights.

it's funny how the net-confederate insurrectionists think they should be able to violate the federal constitution. even with states' rights the constitution is superior. (see supremacy clause).

and for the record, and with all due respect, bigots should be marginalized and not allowed to violate the rights of others. just saying.

See the tenth admendment. Then look at all the powers that the federal government has given itself that are not specified in the constitution. Just saying.

thanks for your expertise.

reality sucks, huh?

 

[jillian]

Trump is very protective of his ponds and does not allow poor people to fish in them

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

it would be unconstitutional. there has to be some type of administrative due process. so yes. that's settled law. it is reasonable to assume that he can't do what he's promising the bigots.

we're more in danger from home grown terrorists here.

 

[Correll]

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

it would be unconstitutional. there has to be some type of administrative due process. so yes. that's settled law. it is reasonable to assume that he can't do what he's promising the bigots.

we're more in danger from home grown terrorists here.

Beyond that.

Your concerns about the Constitution are noted.

And considering the lack of concern you libs have for the Constitution when it is inconvenient for you, dismissed.

 

[jillian]

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

it would be unconstitutional. there has to be some type of administrative due process. so yes. that's settled law. it is reasonable to assume that he can't do what he's promising the bigots.

we're more in danger from home grown terrorists here.

Beyond that.

Your concerns about the Constitution are noted.

And considering the lack of concern you libs have for the Constitution when it is inconvenient for you, dismissed.

what do you think the court is there for? to protect things that are popular?

lol...

your lack of understanding of the role of the court is noted.

until you started with the goofy visual aid, it was an interesting conversation.

have a good rest of your night.

 

[Si modo]

An illegal immigrant has already broken the law.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I don't really understand how a hybrid mixture of libertarianism and social conservationism is going to make America great. This isn't what built our economy during the early to mid 20th century...Hell, I'd go as far as to say that the opposite did.

 

[Correll]

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

it would be unconstitutional. there has to be some type of administrative due process. so yes. that's settled law. it is reasonable to assume that he can't do what he's promising the bigots.

we're more in danger from home grown terrorists here.

Beyond that.

Your concerns about the Constitution are noted.

And considering the lack of concern you libs have for the Constitution when it is inconvenient for you, dismissed.

what do you think the court is there for? to protect things that are popular?

lol...

your lack of understanding of the role of the court is noted.

until you started with the goofy visual aid, it was an interesting conversation.

have a good rest of your night.

You played the Race Card when you called Trump supporters bigots.

I called you on it.

I understand the role of the Court just fine.

I disagree with you on what policies we need to serve the interests of this nation and it's citizens.

YOur position is that the problem is too big to solve.

I disagree and I am supporting the candidate that is going to try.

YOu like the problem. It serves your long term agenda at the expense of America and Americans.

 

[SingleVoyce]

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

it would be unconstitutional. there has to be some type of administrative due process. so yes. that's settled law. it is reasonable to assume that he can't do what he's promising the bigots.

we're more in danger from home grown terrorists here.

We seem to have lost the subject of this thread so let's see if we can get back of track.

The basic question implied by the original proposition was "Is America currently great"?

I believe that all of the contributors to this thread have agreed that America is currently the greatest nation on Earth. Therefore America is currently "great" and the slogan "Make America great again" is nonsense.

The real question that seems to follow from that is "Was America greater at some point in the past and are we currently declining in greatness".

In order to have a coherent discussion of that question we need to do 2 things:

1. Define what it means to be great
2. Identify some point in the past when our greatness peaked based on that definition

Anybody want to take a shot?

 

[the_human_being]

HIs platform of reducing the labor pool, and increasing jobs with better trade policy is the only one that might seriously improve opportunities for our poor communities.

More empty promises from Trump
He has never explained how he intends to do that
He has nothing in his background that shows he has brought jobs to poor communities

It has never been his job, up to now.

And his promises to deport illegals and restrict immigration would reduce supply of labor, thus improving job and wages for the Working Poor.

AND his promises to renegotiate bad trade deals, specifically with China are likely to reduce or reverse outsourcing and improve jobs and wages for the Working POor.

Trump has no capability to deport 11 million illegals

Another empty promise

You assume.

Otherwise you'd have to deal with what I pointed out about Trump being the only one addressing the problem you raised.

Cause you certainly CAN'T cite any promises from Hillary or Sanders that would do anything for it.

it would be unconstitutional. there has to be some type of administrative due process. so yes. that's settled law. it is reasonable to assume that he can't do what he's promising the bigots.

we're more in danger from home grown terrorists here.

Most all SCOTUS decisions have been 5 to 4. The next President will probably appoint at least three new justices. If that President happens to be Trump then guess what? Suck it up.