Why do democrats hate poor black people and want them permanently on welfare?

[danielpalos]

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, instead of a wall, to prove we don't hate the poor!

$15 minimum wage will reduce the number of jobs, and put more people on unemployment and welfare.

Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment; not enough, corporate raiding in it for you?

In any case, short run changes are expected; in the long run, more money being circulated means more demand which means more labor will be required.

And,

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage competes favorably with the cost of social services.

you just don't get it. If McDonalds had to raise its pay to $15, what do you think would happen? They would have three choices: 1 raise prices, 2 hire fewer workers, 3 close their doors.

If they raise prices their sales go down and they don't need as many workers
If they hire fewer workers, or automate more there are fewer jobs
if they shut the doors there are no jobs

You libs just never think these things through.

The dollar menu will not double; unlike labor's pay. That is what will happen. Did you not read US history and how good capitalists can double wages and achieve gains from efficiency? Henry Ford was your capital, "pathfinder".

wrong, they either raise their prices, reduce the number of employees, or go out of business. There are no other options.

the "gains from efficiency" occur when humans are replaced by machines. In case you don't know it, machines are not paid an hourly wage.

Only lousy capitalists, say that. Good capitalists make like Henry Ford, and double wages to achieve gains from productivity.

Good Capitalists do.

Capital slackers don't, and complain about it.

 

[danielpalos]

So public ownership in which we all pay taxes into something and fund it so all of us could use it sounds like socialism to me.

hahahahahahaha how much tax do the poor pay into your new system?

They pay 17-18% now in all taxes- count fees and they're getting close to 20% if they're working. More than many rich, who average 28% and less than the upper middle class. Great job, GOP and dupes...

Socialism is FAIR, democratic capitalism, dupe. See Scandinavia, original, EU, OZ, NZ and the
US- tho ours is a feqqed up pander to the rich GOP mess. See sig.

so since when is 17% greater than 28%? I'm sorry, can you be a little more coherent and understand values? can you try again?

BTW, dining and toy purchases alone, the rich pay more in taxes.

so what; don't blame the poor for being better at tax avoidance, than the rich.

LOL, the tax code exempts the poor from paying taxes. they are not better at tax avoidance, what a dumb statement.

Dear, the poor and Mr. Trump pay the Taxes they are legally obligated to pay by law.

The poor are not complaining about taxes; is Mr. Trump not as good as the poor at avoiding taxes. Why does he need a tax break, if he is so good at avoiding taxes?

 

[danielpalos]

You don't understand the concept. True AnCaps fail more often than socialist economies.

What socialist countries have succeeded?

The US still has the Best form of Socialism in the Entire World.

The rich can get bailed out and keep their multimillion dollar bonuses while on means tested corporate welfare and the poor can still have steak and lobster on their EBT cards.

 

[francoHFW]

Exempts them from FED INCOME TAXES ONLY, dupe. There you go again. Look up brainwashed. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjbo4W8lsXTAhXh5oMKHfePBy8QFgg4MAY&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=S1pMazGUSOJIVx4ZUUlnYg
The one tax graph you really need to know




By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

That's really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income -- which is, by the way, a lot more the 13.9 percent Mitt Romney paid in 2011*.


B) True

it's called a with-holding tax to be accurate. So the guy making 40k pays into Federal Tax, SS, Medicare and state taxes, (if in a state that has state tax), along with insurance. And the only federal dollars in that, outside SS and Medicare, the 40k a year guy gets back after April 15th. All of it. So, the Tax Trump is working on is the Federal Tax, not SS, not Medicare yet, doesn't have anything to do with State nor insurance. So, how is it the 40K a year guy is affected more than the rich dude again?

All states have taxes- there you go again with income tax brainwashed obsession. These graphs includes refunds. Enjoy the state tax hikes that will immediately follow the Trump tax cuts and will KILL the nonrich AGAIN. Then MOST of the middle class will pay a higher % than the RICHEST. Great job!!

Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes. sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

United States


"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

 

[Markle]

Only lousy capitalists, say that. Good capitalists make like Henry Ford, and double wages to achieve gains from productivity.

As you know and are embarrassed to admit, the doubling of the wages had nothing to do with the increase in productivity.

By inventing the assembly line, Mr. Ford was able to more than double production. Not only that, but Mr. Ford also lowered the skill level of all the workers making them all easier to replace as well as add more assembly lines easier and faster.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it's called a with-holding tax to be accurate. So the guy making 40k pays into Federal Tax, SS, Medicare and state taxes, (if in a state that has state tax), along with insurance. And the only federal dollars in that, outside SS and Medicare, the 40k a year guy gets back after April 15th. All of it. So, the Tax Trump is working on is the Federal Tax, not SS, not Medicare yet, doesn't have anything to do with State nor insurance. So, how is it the 40K a year guy is affected more than the rich dude again?

All states have taxes- there you go again with income tax brainwashed obsession. These graphs includes refunds. Enjoy the state tax hikes that will immediately follow the Trump tax cuts and will KILL the nonrich AGAIN. Then MOST of the middle class will pay a higher % than the RICHEST. Great job!!

Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes. sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

United States


"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

 

[danielpalos]

Only lousy capitalists, say that. Good capitalists make like Henry Ford, and double wages to achieve gains from productivity.

As you know and are embarrassed to admit, the doubling of the wages had nothing to do with the increase in productivity.

By inventing the assembly line, Mr. Ford was able to more than double production. Not only that, but Mr. Ford also lowered the skill level of all the workers making them all easier to replace as well as add more assembly lines easier and faster.

Yes, they did; an efficiency wage is what Henry Ford provided, and got more efficiency, as a result.

 

[danielpalos]

All states have taxes- there you go again with income tax brainwashed obsession. These graphs includes refunds. Enjoy the state tax hikes that will immediately follow the Trump tax cuts and will KILL the nonrich AGAIN. Then MOST of the middle class will pay a higher % than the RICHEST. Great job!!

Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes. sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

United States


"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

 

[francoHFW]

All states have taxes- there you go again with income tax brainwashed obsession. These graphs includes refunds. Enjoy the state tax hikes that will immediately follow the Trump tax cuts and will KILL the nonrich AGAIN. Then MOST of the middle class will pay a higher % than the RICHEST. Great job!!

Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes. sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

United States


"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

That's income tax again, ferchrissake, the only progressive tax we have, and it appears the only tax Pub dupes can talk about...If you count all taxes, everyone with any income pays around the same %wise, and the richest keep all the new wealth, and the nonrich and the country go to hell...a flat tax is unfair to the nonrich.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes. sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

United States


"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

The 1% have nothing to do with what they are forced to pay in taxes. Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45% of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being slick, clever, or creative, they just don't have to pay taxes because of our laws.

Why do the one percent want a tax break? Because they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes. think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare.

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tennessee, Florida, Texas and others do not have state taxes. sorry fella, you're coming up short.

from Wikipedia:

United States


"Payroll taxes were among the most regressive in 2010.
See also: Taxation in the United States and Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax
In the United States, payroll taxes are assessed by the federal government, some of the fifty states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming do not have state income tax; New Hampshire and Tennessee only tax income from interest and dividends)"

Gd I wish you fking libturds would learn about your own country.

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

That's income tax again, ferchrissake, the only progressive tax we have, and it appears the only tax Pub dupes can talk about...If you count all taxes, everyone with any income pays around the same %wise, and the richest keep all the new wealth, and the nonrich and the country go to hell...a flat tax is unfair to the nonrich.

We are not talking about all taxes. We are talking about income taxes since those are the only taxes that our government uses to spend on federal things.

Social Security and Medicare are nothing more than savings accounts for those who live into their retirement age. FICA is just a cute acronym for Social Security. In other words, those taxes you get back, so it's not really a tax at all. If you live to the average lifespan in America, you not only get those taxes back, you get more than you put in.

 

[danielpalos]

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

The 1% have nothing to do with what they are forced to pay in taxes. Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45% of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being slick, clever, or creative, they just don't have to pay taxes because of our laws.

Why do the one percent want a tax break? Because they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes. think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare.

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?

dear, the one percent and the poor Only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay; don't complain, be Patriotic.

 

[Markle]

Yes, they did; an efficiency wage is what Henry Ford provided, and got more efficiency, as a result.

And fewer employees to produce more cars at lower prices.

You're not offering anything more. Nothing. You simply want people with no work ethic, experience or education to get more money for not producing on iota more than they did yesterday, just so YOU feel better.

Show us all how they're going to more than double their production as did the workers for Henry Ford and I'm ready to listen. All you've done is destroy your own pathetic position.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

The 1% have nothing to do with what they are forced to pay in taxes. Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45% of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being slick, clever, or creative, they just don't have to pay taxes because of our laws.

Why do the one percent want a tax break? Because they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes. think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare.

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?

dear, the one percent and the poor Only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay; don't complain, be Patriotic.

Yes, they do, that was my point. It's also my point that the "wealthy" in this country currently pay much more than their fair share. They pay for all of us who don't pay anything at all.

 

[francoHFW]

So they don't have property tax, sales tax etc etc etc? DUHHHH. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED to only think of income tax, dupe.

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

That's income tax again, ferchrissake, the only progressive tax we have, and it appears the only tax Pub dupes can talk about...If you count all taxes, everyone with any income pays around the same %wise, and the richest keep all the new wealth, and the nonrich and the country go to hell...a flat tax is unfair to the nonrich.

We are not talking about all taxes. We are talking about income taxes since those are the only taxes that our government uses to spend on federal things.

Social Security and Medicare are nothing more than savings accounts for those who live into their retirement age. FICA is just a cute acronym for Social Security. In other words, those taxes you get back, so it's not really a tax at all. If you live to the average lifespan in America, you not only get those taxes back, you get more than you put in.

Taxes are taxes, and the more the rich don't pay, the more the nonrich do, and the less there is to invest in America. The middle class and the country are a wreck after 35 years of Reaganism/GOP tax policy.

 

[francoHFW]

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

The 1% have nothing to do with what they are forced to pay in taxes. Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45% of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being slick, clever, or creative, they just don't have to pay taxes because of our laws.

Why do the one percent want a tax break? Because they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes. think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare.

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?

dear, the one percent and the poor Only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay; don't complain, be Patriotic.

Yes, they do, that was my point. It's also my point that the "wealthy" in this country currently pay much more than their fair share. They pay for all of us who don't pay anything at all.

The hell they do. Look up brainwashed. All you can talk about is federal income taxes which no longer are enough to keep the country healthy.

 

[francoHFW]

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

The 1% have nothing to do with what they are forced to pay in taxes. Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45% of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being slick, clever, or creative, they just don't have to pay taxes because of our laws.

Why do the one percent want a tax break? Because they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes. think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare.

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?

dear, the one percent and the poor Only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay; don't complain, be Patriotic.

Yes, they do, that was my point. It's also my point that the "wealthy" in this country currently pay much more than their fair share. They pay for all of us who don't pay anything at all.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwihu-uNlsbTAhXLOSYKHZZQA1oQFgg2MAU&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=xYPpaEMcNvg2lSJR0GnSkw

By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

no, those aren't in withholding taxes from an employer. That, stupid ass, was the discussion. So, now, can you get back on topic and answer my original question? cat got your fingers?

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

View attachment 123638

That's income tax again, ferchrissake, the only progressive tax we have, and it appears the only tax Pub dupes can talk about...If you count all taxes, everyone with any income pays around the same %wise, and the richest keep all the new wealth, and the nonrich and the country go to hell...a flat tax is unfair to the nonrich.

We are not talking about all taxes. We are talking about income taxes since those are the only taxes that our government uses to spend on federal things.

Social Security and Medicare are nothing more than savings accounts for those who live into their retirement age. FICA is just a cute acronym for Social Security. In other words, those taxes you get back, so it's not really a tax at all. If you live to the average lifespan in America, you not only get those taxes back, you get more than you put in.

Taxes are taxes, and the more the rich don't pay, the more the nonrich do, and the less there is to invest in America. The middle class and the country are a wreck after 35 years of Reaganism/GOP tax policy.

This has nothing to do with Reagan you idiot. Most of your posts are about how everything wrong in this country had to do with Reagan who presided under a Democrat led Congress. Yet no mention how they went along with Reagan's ideas.

Sixteen years of Democrat leadership in the White House since Reagan left; a few of those years with an all Democrat house, and they changed nothing of Reagan's.

Yes, the Democrat party is the party of poor excuses, but you take that to another level.

So one more time: the rich pay the most in federal income tax for the rest of us that don't pay or pay very little. It doesn't matter how much they do or don't pay. The non-rich (notice the dash between non and rich you fake retired school teacher) will not pay anymore. We just go deeper into debt which DumBama doubled in his eight years in the White House.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

View attachment 123638

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Why is it the poor's fault, the one percent are lousy at tax avoidance, and want tax breaks?

The 1% have nothing to do with what they are forced to pay in taxes. Like most people, I'm sure they do what they can to pay the least, but you have to obey the law.

Just like the bottom 45% of our country that pay no income taxes at all. It's not being slick, clever, or creative, they just don't have to pay taxes because of our laws.

Why do the one percent want a tax break? Because they pay over 40% of all collected income taxes. think of that: one percent of our country are supporting nearly half of those social goodies, our military, and all federal government spending outside of SS and Medicare.

Instead of insisting they pay more, wouldn't it make more sense to have the bottom 45% pay something into federal income tax?

dear, the one percent and the poor Only pay the taxes they are legally obligated to pay; don't complain, be Patriotic.

Yes, they do, that was my point. It's also my point that the "wealthy" in this country currently pay much more than their fair share. They pay for all of us who don't pay anything at all.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwihu-uNlsbTAhXLOSYKHZZQA1oQFgg2MAU&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=xYPpaEMcNvg2lSJR0GnSkw

By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

Right, keep posting your crap about total tax bill to avoid talking about federal income tax.

Social Security deductions do not fund our military. Medicare does not fund welfare, food stamps or education. Sales taxes do not make the payroll of federal employees. Only federal income tax does that.

 

[francoHFW]

No, the discussion was about how much people pay in taxes. The rich, nowhere near enough, the nonrich and YOU, TOO MUCH. Thanks , lying GOP (only income taxes count! LOL) and silly dupes.

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That's income tax again, ferchrissake, the only progressive tax we have, and it appears the only tax Pub dupes can talk about...If you count all taxes, everyone with any income pays around the same %wise, and the richest keep all the new wealth, and the nonrich and the country go to hell...a flat tax is unfair to the nonrich.

We are not talking about all taxes. We are talking about income taxes since those are the only taxes that our government uses to spend on federal things.

Social Security and Medicare are nothing more than savings accounts for those who live into their retirement age. FICA is just a cute acronym for Social Security. In other words, those taxes you get back, so it's not really a tax at all. If you live to the average lifespan in America, you not only get those taxes back, you get more than you put in.

Taxes are taxes, and the more the rich don't pay, the more the nonrich do, and the less there is to invest in America. The middle class and the country are a wreck after 35 years of Reaganism/GOP tax policy.

This has nothing to do with Reagan you idiot. Most of your posts are about how everything wrong in this country had to do with Reagan who presided under a Democrat led Congress. Yet no mention how they went along with Reagan's ideas.

Sixteen years of Democrat leadership in the White House since Reagan left; a few of those years with an all Democrat house, and they changed nothing of Reagan's.

Yes, the Democrat party is the party of poor excuses, but you take that to another level.

So one more time: the rich pay the most in federal income tax for the rest of us that don't pay or pay very little. It doesn't matter how much they do or don't pay. The non-rich (notice the dash between non and rich you fake retired school teacher) will not pay anymore. We just go deeper into debt which DumBama doubled in his eight years in the White House.

You are brainwashed. You ignore that we're still under Reaganist tax policy and the NEW BS GOP since has blocked all reform, and don't seem to have heard of the corrupt Booosh DEPRESSION that accounts for the great majority of Obama's debt.
By Ezra Klein September 19, 2012
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens: