Why do liberals tend to assume that non-liberals aren't even sincere?

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I'm still learning the ins and outs of holding a conversation with liberals. Obviously many of their unique behaviors and tactics still baffle me. I've already posted about some of my previous observations, such as the tendency to change the subject without warning or the odd assumption that becoming a convinced believer of leftist political theory and education are synonymous. Another odd assumption I've run into enough to find noteworthy is that non-liberals aren't even honestly presenting their own beliefs.

When discussing the abortion issue, for instance, you generally only have to count the minutes until you're informed that you're not actually pro-life because you actually believe abortion is a euphemism for feticide and consider feticide murder. The real reason you oppose abortion must be that you hate women and want to enslave them with pregnancy. If the topic is immigration reform, it will inevitably be explained to you that you don't actually believe that a sovereign nation has the right to control entry into itself and restrict certain civil rights like voting to its citizens. You really just claim to believe these things as an excuse for racism and xenophobia. You can say that you simply believe that your nation is worth defending and its basic ideals and culture worth promoting. Unfortunately, you're really just a plastic patriot fascist with outdated ideas about outdated pieces of paper written by dead white men who probably wants to enslave everyone to a corporate dictatorship.

Is there a reason for this tendency beyond simple partisan good vs evil thinking? It caught me off guard when I first encountered it. I've since grown used to it to a degree and now just find it puzzling.

 

[hangover]

I think many non-liberals are sincerely ignorant, and many more are sincerely deceiving.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I think many non-liberals are sincerely ignorant, and many more are sincerely deceiving.

You don't honestly believe most of the country is lying to you about their own beliefs though?

 

[BlindBoo]

Do you actually believe the straw men you create?

 

[Darkwind]

I'm still learning the ins and outs of holding a conversation with liberals. Obviously many of their unique behaviors and tactics still baffle me. I've already posted about some of my previous observations, such as the tendency to change the subject without warning or the odd assumption that becoming a convinced believer of leftist political theory and education are synonymous. Another odd assumption I've run into enough to find noteworthy is that non-liberals aren't even honestly presenting their own beliefs.

When discussing the abortion issue, for instance, you generally only have to count the minutes until you're informed that you're not actually pro-life because you actually believe abortion is a euphemism for feticide and consider feticide murder. The real reason you oppose abortion must be that you hate women and want to enslave them with pregnancy. If the topic is immigration reform, it will inevitably be explained to you that you don't actually believe that a sovereign nation has the right to control entry into itself and restrict certain civil rights like voting to its citizens. You really just claim to believe these things as an excuse for racism and xenophobia. You can say that you simply believe that your nation is worth defending and its basic ideals and culture worth promoting. Unfortunately, you're really just a plastic patriot fascist with outdated ideas about outdated pieces of paper written by dead white men who probably wants to enslave everyone to a corporate dictatorship.

Is there a reason for this tendency beyond simple partisan good vs evil thinking? It caught me off guard when I first encountered it. I've since grown used to it to a degree and now just find it puzzling.

Its a tactic. It is also why you won't catch many liberals able to withstand such places as the structured debate forum where control of the debate is in the OP's hands and they are not permitted to derail the discussion with tertiary issues, or simple snarkism (word?)

 

[hangover]

I think many non-liberals are sincerely ignorant, and many more are sincerely deceiving.

You don't honestly believe most of the country is lying to you about their own beliefs though?

Many are honestly ignorant, many are dishonestly deceiving...on both sides of the isle.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Do you actually believe the straw men you create?

It also fails as a loaded question fallacy.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Which ones are the liberals? I have a difficult time finding them here because I see lock-step leftists, multiculturalist practitioners of identity politics and all manner of authoritarians who sound more like Nazis when they discuss world politics than they do liberals, but I haven't noticed too many liberals.

As far as the abortion issue is concerned, however, one long-standing liberal principle involves protecting the weak and powerless. Social justice is predicated upon such social dynamics, and so the liberal position involves protecting those who have no power to pursue their own rights against those who seek to prevent them from doing so. In the relationship between a women who is pregnant and the developing human she carries, it is the women who has all the power rather than the developing human, and so it could certainly be argued that protecting the fetus until such a time as he or she can exercise autonomy is well within the framework established for liberal ideology.

The problem here, is that what defines liberal and conservative these days ISN'T any actual ideology, but simply a matter of talking points, sacred cows, assumptions, group think, and conditioned response knee jerks.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Which ones are the liberals?

The problem here, is that what defines liberal and conservative these days ISN'T any actual ideology, but simply a matter of talking points, sacred cows, assumptions, group think, and conditioned response knee jerks.

You pretty much answered it yourself. There are two majority sides here. They've set themselves up as mostly mirror images of each other. The conservative group holds to one set of talking points, sacred cows, assumptions, group think, and conditioned response knee jerks. The liberal group holds to another. I find the liberal group more interesting. This is probably due both to my lack of familiarity with real liberals* and an urge to see how pervasive certain troubling beliefs and behaviors (such as this) I've seen from the few real liberals I've already encountered are in roughly equal measure.

*I suppose some explanation in why I qualify this with "real" would be useful. Back home the GOP basically ran unopposed. There was a small population of active leftists, but they were mostly aged Yankee transplant hippies and Communists without any real pull outside of their own churches and political groups. Most older people would have been hardline religious right Republicans and their kids generally apathetic, agnostic, and more concerned with getting laid and paid and cutting school to go hunting than any abstract ideology. My first encounters with actual convinced liberals outside of a few brushes with the eccentric crowd happened only after moving to California. The first time I actively went out of my way to hear them out was on a trip to a community forum in Oakland. That's what I mean here when I say a "real" liberal: the difference between the woman at the community forum who spent twenty minutes on a fiery and impassioned rant against the excesses of "Amerikkka" and the duty of all real Americans to join her in abusing the welfare system and the apathetic Southern teenager who sometimes quotes Steve Colbert to annoy his parents.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Funny you should ask that because knee jerk RW, SassyIrishLass just said she posted something she knew was untrue but posted it to bait liberals.

OKLAHOMA HOUSE APPROVES BILL SHIFTING MARRIAGE LICENSES FROM STATE TO CLERGY Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Weird.

 

[BluesLegend]

I think many non-liberals are sincerely ignorant, and many more are sincerely deceiving.

Yes well we hate liberals right back so pound sand.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I think many non-liberals are sincerely ignorant, and many more are sincerely deceiving.

Yes well we hate liberals right back so pound sand.

Um... Your "we" doesn't include me. I think the tendency to disregard what we say as an attempt at deception is noteworthy just like I can't help but notice and comment on their tendencies to lionize traitors (Julius Rosenberg, Bradley/Chelsea Manning, and Snowden being three notable examples), revel in Malthusian misanthropy, and patronize the poor "little people" who just aren't educated and enlightened enough to be liberals themselves. That isn't the same as hate.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Funny you should ask that because knee jerk RW, SassyIrishLass just said she posted something she knew was untrue but posted it to bait liberals.

OKLAHOMA HOUSE APPROVES BILL SHIFTING MARRIAGE LICENSES FROM STATE TO CLERGY Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Weird.

Are you even capable of posting without framing something as "RW"?

I'm reminded of the equally unintelligent fundies on the right whose every posting is about "Liberals".

The day you learn that politics isn't Cowbows and Indians is when you take your first step towards understanding the world is not as simple minded as you want it to be.

 

[BluesLegend]

I think many non-liberals are sincerely ignorant, and many more are sincerely deceiving.

Yes well we hate liberals right back so pound sand.

Um... Your "we" doesn't include me. I think the tendency to disregard what we say as an attempt at deception is noteworthy just like I can't help but notice and comment on their tendencies to lionize traitors (Julius Rosenberg, Bradley/Chelsea Manning, and Snowden being three notable examples), revel in Malthusian misanthropy, and patronize the poor "little people" who just aren't educated and enlightened enough to be liberals themselves. That isn't the same as hate.

You may be a RINO or political gender confused or something I don't know. I can't abide a liar hence most liberals.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Funny you should ask that because knee jerk RW, SassyIrishLass just said she posted something she knew was untrue but posted it to bait liberals.

OKLAHOMA HOUSE APPROVES BILL SHIFTING MARRIAGE LICENSES FROM STATE TO CLERGY Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Weird.

Are you even capable of posting without framing something as "RW"?

I'm reminded of the equally unintelligent fundies on the right whose every posting is about "Liberals".

The day you learn that politics isn't Cowbows and Indians is when you take your first step towards understanding the world is not as simple minded as you want it to be.

I've always been very clear that IMO, there is a huge difference between Conservatives and the radical right, which I choose to refer to as RWs.

If I reply to or refer to the words of a Conservative, I don't use the term "RW".

OTOH, one might also consider that most people do indeed choose a left or right position on issues. Most people are indeed, "Cowboys OR Indians".

Certainly, you are more than free to disagree with my assessment and terminology but sadly, these days, true Conservatives are in very short supply.

As long as you find the term "RW" rankles but choose to say nothing about such terms as "libturd", your opinion means very little.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I

I've always been very clear that IMO, there is a huge difference between Conservatives and the radical right, which I choose to refer to as RWs.

If I reply to or refer to the words of a Conservative, I don't use the term "RW".

OTOH, one might also consider that most people do indeed choose a left or right position on issues. Most people are indeed, "Cowboys OR Indians".

Certainly, you are more than free to disagree with my assessment and terminology but sadly, these days, true Conservatives are in very short supply.

As long as you find the term "RW" rankles but choose to say nothing about such terms as "libturd", your opinion means very little.

You are just a complete hack who is everything you complain about in others. You are unintelligent, narrow minded, completely conformist, and play the polarization game to the hilt.

You might as well put on war paint the way you play the game.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I

I've always been very clear that IMO, there is a huge difference between Conservatives and the radical right, which I choose to refer to as RWs.

If I reply to or refer to the words of a Conservative, I don't use the term "RW".

OTOH, one might also consider that most people do indeed choose a left or right position on issues. Most people are indeed, "Cowboys OR Indians".

Certainly, you are more than free to disagree with my assessment and terminology but sadly, these days, true Conservatives are in very short supply.

As long as you find the term "RW" rankles but choose to say nothing about such terms as "libturd", your opinion means very little.

You are just a complete hack who is everything you complain about in others. You are unintelligent, narrow minded, completely conformist, and play the polarization game to the hilt.

You might as well put on war paint the way you play the game.

First you defend a RW hack and then you reply to my explanation with name calling but no substance.

K.

 

[2aguy]

I'm still learning the ins and outs of holding a conversation with liberals. Obviously many of their unique behaviors and tactics still baffle me. I've already posted about some of my previous observations, such as the tendency to change the subject without warning or the odd assumption that becoming a convinced believer of leftist political theory and education are synonymous. Another odd assumption I've run into enough to find noteworthy is that non-liberals aren't even honestly presenting their own beliefs.

When discussing the abortion issue, for instance, you generally only have to count the minutes until you're informed that you're not actually pro-life because you actually believe abortion is a euphemism for feticide and consider feticide murder. The real reason you oppose abortion must be that you hate women and want to enslave them with pregnancy. If the topic is immigration reform, it will inevitably be explained to you that you don't actually believe that a sovereign nation has the right to control entry into itself and restrict certain civil rights like voting to its citizens. You really just claim to believe these things as an excuse for racism and xenophobia. You can say that you simply believe that your nation is worth defending and its basic ideals and culture worth promoting. Unfortunately, you're really just a plastic patriot fascist with outdated ideas about outdated pieces of paper written by dead white men who probably wants to enslave everyone to a corporate dictatorship.

Is there a reason for this tendency beyond simple partisan good vs evil thinking? It caught me off guard when I first encountered it. I've since grown used to it to a degree and now just find it puzzling.

The actual answer....they project onto their enemies how they really feel....they are the sexists...they don't care if bill clinton rapes the insignificant women, and they pay their women employees less....but to protect their own self image...and political power, they say republicans are the ones who hate women....

And another reason.....they can shut up their enemies when they accuse them of racism and bigotry.....this helps them fool poor minorities......who get their information from democrat controlled media.....trying to explain how immigration that is legal is better for everyone takes time....yelling that you are a racist and hate mexicans....pretty quick and easy.......

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

You may be a RINO or political gender confused or something I don't know. I can't abide a liar hence most liberals.

I'm not a Republican. I know what I am. There isn't a side that represents it.

 

[Syriusly]

I'm still learning the ins and outs of holding a conversation with liberals.

I have seen no evidence that you are learning anything.

You just keep making this crap up.

I don't assume that non-liberals are not sincere- I assume based upon your threads- that you are not sincere.

Since you repeatedly assume that all 'liberals' act in specific ways.