Why do so many conservatives support secession?

[Pilate]

I'm super-conservative but i don't get it. If Texas secedes and china decides to invade the state, who is gonna stop them?

Well I'd like you to clarify what you mean when you "support secession." I support it in the sense that I think that nowhere in any government document is it expressly prohibited. And please don't give me that crap about "one nation indivisible" since that pledge is not at all legally binding nor is it necessarily even a law. I think secession is a very important part of people's right to self determination. With that said, I do not think that secession is a great idea.

 

[MisterBeale]

Conservatives want to secede because liberals have destroyed American and are dragging us down into a third-world shit-hole much like Cuba.

I'll tell you what, first read the short story The Man without a Country by Edward Everett Hale and then get the fuck out of MY country.

Read it.

What YOU don't understand, is that if the sovereign folk of a state secede, their nation is STILL the land in which they dwell.

If that sorry sot Nolan hadn't conspired with Aaron Burr to try to create a false flag excuse to go to war with Spain, which was considered treason by the existing laws, he wouldn't have been kicked out. The fact is, he didn't consider the federal capital, or the federal government his home. That never mattered to him. IT DOESN'T necessarily mean he never considered the south, or more specifically Texas his home. Sovereignty is vested locally, not with elites in some far off capital.

The Man Without a Country
The classic story of a man who learns to love his country only in exile
The Man Without a Country

Nolan was proved guilty enough, as I say; yet you and I would never have heard of him, reader, but that, when the president of the court asked him at the close, whether he wished to say anything to show that he had always been faithful to the United States, he cried out, in a fit of frenzy,—

"D——n the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!"

I suppose he did not know how the words shocked old Colonel Morgan, who was holding the court. Half the officers who sat in it had served through the Revolution, and their lives, not to say their necks, had been risked for the very idea which he so cavalierly cursed in his madness. He, on his part, had grown up in the West of those days, in the midst of "Spanish plot," "Orleans plot," and all the rest. He had been educated on a plantation, where the finest company was a Spanish officer or a French merchant from Orleans. His education, such as it was, had been perfected in commercial expeditions to Vera Cruz, and I think he told me his father once hired an Englishman to be a private tutor for a winter on the plantation. He had spent half his youth with an older brother, hunting horses in Texas; and, in a word, to him "United States" was scarcely a reality.

<snip>

Nolan was at table, and was in an unusually bright and talkative mood. Some story of a tumble reminded him of an adventure of his own, when he was catching wild horses in Texas with his brother Stephen, at a time when he must have been quite a boy. He told the story with a good deal of spirit,—so much so, that the silence which often follows a good story hung over the table for an instant, to be broken by Nolan himself. For he asked, perfectly unconsciously,—

"Pray, what has become of Texas? After the Mexicans got their independence, I thought that province of Texas would come forward very fast. It is really one of the finest regions on earth; it is the Italy of this continent. But I have not seen or heard a word of Texas for near twenty years."

There were two Texan officers at the table. The reason he had never heard of Texas was that Texas and her affairs had been painfully cut out of his newspapers since Austin began his settlements; so that, while he read of Honduras and Tamaulipas, and, till quite lately, of California, this virgin province, in which his brother had travelled so far, and, I believe, had died, had ceased to be to him. Waters and Williams, the two Texas men, looked grimly at each other, and tried not to laugh. Edward Morris had his attention attracted by the third link in the chain of the captain's chandelier. Watrous was seized with a convulsion of sneezing. Nolan himself saw that something was to pay, he did not know what. And I, as master of the feast, had to say,—

"Texas is out of the map, Mr. Nolan. Have you seen Captain Back's curious account of Sir Thomas Hoe's Welcome?"

I'm sure if Texas had remained an independent Republic, he would have been more than happy to return to it. In fact, they were worried that he would have thought that Burr's original plot had been successful.

 

[my2¢]

The NFL commissioner is determined to make American football an international sport. Breaking up the U.S. might be a good way to quit having to have those silly trips to London.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Thats not my problem.

It's not your problem nothing you paid in was ever saved? I'd say it's completely your problem

It's not my problem where the US gets the money to pay back the citizens of Texas
After all,it's no different than moving out of the country.
You still get your benefits.

So you want Texas to be free and secede, while continuing to be a welfare whore? Explain ...

I dont care about welfare.
I care about SS taxes thats been taken out of my checks.

You paid for defense too, that was an investment, right? Shouldn't today's taxpayers pay you back for that?

Stupid is as stupid does. You want freedom, but you want a check for it. I pity the fool. The fool is you

Nah...they can keep that.
As long as they dont mind Texas keeping all military hardware within Texas borders.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've saved plenty of money. It's how I retired at 46.

Swish. I'm talking about what you claimed, the lie that you "paid into" social security and medicare. You paid nothing into those, they were tax and spend schemes

So you wont be receiving any benefits when you hit the age marker?

Not if I get my way, no

Personally I dont need em,it's the principle.

The principle that you paid taxes so you want your children to write you a check that has nothing to them?



Wow, you're a man of principle, I see it now

OK, I don't ...

Dont have any kids....and I pay some of the highest school taxes in the state.

 

[kaz]

It's not your problem nothing you paid in was ever saved? I'd say it's completely your problem

It's not my problem where the US gets the money to pay back the citizens of Texas
After all,it's no different than moving out of the country.
You still get your benefits.

So you want Texas to be free and secede, while continuing to be a welfare whore? Explain ...

I dont care about welfare.
I care about SS taxes thats been taken out of my checks.

You paid for defense too, that was an investment, right? Shouldn't today's taxpayers pay you back for that?

Stupid is as stupid does. You want freedom, but you want a check for it. I pity the fool. The fool is you

Nah...they can keep that.
As long as they dont mind Texas keeping all military hardware within Texas borders.

Now you're talking

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Here is some other stuff Texans will lose:

SS benefits
Medicare/medicaid funding
FDIC/EPA/FDA protections
International representation and diplomatic channels.
$Dollar currency.
.

Yeah but with no federal taxes to pay, that may work out for TX. As i said, the real problem is defense.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Well I'd like you to clarify what you mean when you "support secession." I support it in the sense that I think that nowhere in any government document is it expressly prohibited. And please don't give me that crap about "one nation indivisible" since that pledge is not at all legally binding nor is it necessarily even a law. I think secession is a very important part of people's right to self determination. With that said, I do not think that secession is a great idea.

My view also. I support the RIGHT TO SECEDE but i don't think it's a good idea right now.

Fact is america was founded on secession. The original 13 colonies seceded from england and that worked out ok. Secession is the utimate example of states rights. America should have let the south secede in 1861.

 

[Afterword]

Would residence of Texas have to denounce their United States citizenship or leave the state when it secedes? How would Texas control who lived there after seceding, with such a large open border?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It's not my problem where the US gets the money to pay back the citizens of Texas
After all,it's no different than moving out of the country.
You still get your benefits.

So you want Texas to be free and secede, while continuing to be a welfare whore? Explain ...

I dont care about welfare.
I care about SS taxes thats been taken out of my checks.

You paid for defense too, that was an investment, right? Shouldn't today's taxpayers pay you back for that?

Stupid is as stupid does. You want freedom, but you want a check for it. I pity the fool. The fool is you

Nah...they can keep that.
As long as they dont mind Texas keeping all military hardware within Texas borders.

Now you're talking

I'm not unreasonable...but I wont be ripped off either.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Texas would rot without being able to suck off the federal teet. Is there a big city in Texas that's NOT attached to a giant military base?

And so the those giant military bases would simply shift from the federal government to the Texas government. If the seceded - they would still need a military.

And every Texan who's paid into Medicare and Social Security would lose their benefits.

Why? The federal government could easily refund all of that since Texans would no longer be receiving benefits. You think like an 8-year old. Then again, since liberals have run our economy and government into the ground and we're now $19 trillion in debt, they might be incapable of refunding their money even if they wanted to.

Ahhhh....the "wonders" of liberalism!

Why would the federal government refund all that? Texas illegally secedes. The US is going to freeze every asset that Texas might claim.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Would residence of Texas have to denounce their United States citizenship or leave the state when it secedes? How would Texas control who lived there after seceding, with such a large open border?

Every resident of Texas that did not support the secession would still be entitled to every right and protection that every other citizen of the United States retains.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I wish Texas would secede, I would move there.

We kick out all the illegal Mexicans and it would be a perfect country.

They might kick you out. State is crawling with gringo-hating illegals.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Every resident of Texas that did not support the secession would still be entitled to every right and protection that every other citizen of the United States retains.

BS. They'd have to move to another state - which they could easily do. THINK

 

[NYcarbineer]

Every resident of Texas that did not support the secession would still be entitled to every right and protection that every other citizen of the United States retains.

BS. They'd have to move to another state - which they could easily do. THINK

No they wouldn't. Their property rights are protected by the Constitution.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Every resident of Texas that did not support the secession would still be entitled to every right and protection that every other citizen of the United States retains.

BS. They'd have to move to another state - which they could easily do. THINK

A state has no constitutional authority to take a US citizen's constitutional rights away from him.

 

[P@triot]

Every resident of Texas that did not support the secession would still be entitled to every right and protection that every other citizen of the United States retains.

BS. They'd have to move to another state - which they could easily do. THINK

A state has no constitutional authority to take a US citizen's constitutional rights away from him.

We agree there. But if you recognize that much - why in the hell do you support the federal government taking away constitutional rights from all of us?

 

[Timmy]

Texas would rot without being able to suck off the federal teet. Is there a big city in Texas that's NOT attached to a giant military base?

So Timmy,do you ever tire of showing your stupidity on this board?
Texas has the 14 largest economy in the world.

You didnt answer my question . Is there a big text city that doesn't leech off a big military base?

 

[Timmy]

Texas would rot without being able to suck off the federal teet. Is there a big city in Texas that's NOT attached to a giant military base?

And so the those giant military bases would simply shift from the federal government to the Texas government. If the seceded - they would still need a military.

And every Texan who's paid into Medicare and Social Security would lose their benefits.

Another dumbass....people move out of the country all the time and keep their benefits.

Because they are still us citizens . Not anymore Texas! You think you can just leave the union and keep all the good benefits ?!

 

[P@triot]

Because they are still us citizens . Not anymore Texas! You think you can just leave the union and keep all the good benefits ?!

If the benefits were "good" - nobody would want to leave. Texas isn't asking for the benefits in this hypothetical, genius. They are asking for their money back - which was taken against their will for the very shitty "benefits" that they don't want. It's amazing that you needed that explained to you.