Why do so many people from every political angle talk like we're on the path to destruction?

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

 

[Circe]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Liberals, conservatives, whatever. It seems like so many people are convinced that the world is ending and/or that everything is horrible. Are we really headed for doom? Is life really that bad? There's so much negativity and melodrama in politics. Does it never occur to you people that maybe humanity will be just fine? Maybe people have to convince themselves the world is ending and that everything sucks so their rage and hysteria doesn't seem like an overreaction.

It's my opinion that humanity will be just fine. We'll forge ever onward and reach heights beyond what we can currently imagine. You doom and gloomers are heavily overreacting. It almost seems like you want to witness the world crumble. Just relax a little; take a Xanax. Everything's going to be fine.

I guess some (many?) people are gloomy because (a) they think the Dems want to impose a communist regime on the country and (b) the racial unpleasantness seems to becoming worse.

Personally, I have no doubt that by the next century, the United States of America will have a different configuration.

All nations rise and eventually fall. We are falling.

Well...we are changing..that's for sure.

 

[westwall]

All of which refer to the QUALITY of life improving. And that only if you can afford it. So, once again, how is HUMANITY getting better? This is not a trick question, it is a question of your ability to answer a simple question. This is a philosophical question. Do you know what a philosophical question even is?

I doubt it.

Quality of life improvements will help fuel our spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth by reducing the stress and strain required for existence. Obviously spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth is harder to map and track, and obviously we still have a way to go. By the way, your smug and condescending attitude just makes you look like an ignorant jerk, especially when the point you're trying to drive home isn't actually a good point.

Oh? How? I think I am being quite cogent. YOU are the one who is demonstrably arrogant and condescending. I am merely asking whether you have the intellectual capacity to carry on a philosophical discussion. That is still debatable. Now, if you had said that machines make it possible for humans to have more leisure time to pursue their individual interests, that would have been a SPECIFIC claim. But yet again, you resort to generalizations.

Generalized statements are indicative of low rhetorical capacity. Now, that can be do to innate stupidity, or ignorance. I don't know which it is with you. Yet.

 

[westwall]

You are welcome.

You must realize it's sort of annoying to see you deny all the serious problems we all are very worried about, with glib happy-talk. I do suspect you got it from Pinker, am I right? That's sure his schtick.

I know we have problems. We have lots of them, but I believe in our ability to overcome them, and to me it's clear that we are getting better, not worse.

But you make generalized statements and ignore the rapid descent into third world shitholedom that the democrats are propelling us toward.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

 

[westwall]

America is in the twilight of her run. We're heading back to bondage. 245-250, that's about the amount of time a republic lasts.

Rome's Republic lasted about 500 years (550 BC to about 50 BC), but they didn't have to contend with Twitter and FaceBook --- the war-makers.

It was a Republic in name only for a very long time. the Senate was corrupt as hell. Pompeii has political advertisements on the walls where it is the same family in political power for decades. That is the problem we have now. A political elite that is at war with the PEOPLE. Greed is always their downfall. If they were content to just skim off of the top, and let the people live their lives the sham could go on forever, but ultimately the corruptocrats get too full of themselves and they are finally killed.

 

[westwall]

Liberals, conservatives, whatever. It seems like so many people are convinced that the world is ending and/or that everything is horrible. Are we really headed for doom? Is life really that bad? There's so much negativity and melodrama in politics. Does it never occur to you people that maybe humanity will be just fine? Maybe people have to convince themselves the world is ending and that everything sucks so their rage and hysteria doesn't seem like an overreaction.

It's my opinion that humanity will be just fine. We'll forge ever onward and reach heights beyond what we can currently imagine. You doom and gloomers are heavily overreacting. It almost seems like you want to witness the world crumble. Just relax a little; take a Xanax. Everything's going to be fine.

I care about the US, that's why I am mad America haters got commie Sleepy in the White House.

Liberals, conservatives, whatever. It seems like so many people are convinced that the world is ending and/or that everything is horrible. Are we really headed for doom?

Yes. You are witnessing the death of the Republic

No, you are witnessing the death of the Republican Party, from self-inflicted wounds. They've worked very hard for a very long time to achieve this level of failure. They deserve everything that is happening to them right now, and no one is going to deprive them of it.

Republicans could mitigate their losses by convicting Donald Trump, but they're not smart enough to do that. In which case, they won't get a another nickel out of Wall Street or corporate America. The last thing the business community wants is instability in the government.

Wrong again, simple minded fool. What we watched was the end of the Republic of the United States.

You're just too stupid to realize it.

 

[Circe]

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

Okay, that gives me hope; I got tired of Hell. (Like Dante, I guess.)

 

[westwall]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

I have read quite a few dystopian novels. They all have one major shortcoming though, and that is this belief that there will be restraint when the end comes. There won't be. The final fall of civilization is going to be catastrophic. And it will last centuries, if not longer. His historical fiction is relatively good, though I prefer Cornwall, or O'Brian, but he is a very good author. There is no doubt about that.

 

[westwall]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

Have you ever read Stephen R. Donaldson? His "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are quite good.

 

[Circe]

It was a Republic in name only for a very long time. the Senate was corrupt as hell. Pompeii has political advertisements on the walls where it is the same family in political power for decades. That is the problem we have now. A political elite that is at war with the PEOPLE. Greed is always their downfall. If they were content to just skim off of the top, and let the people live their lives the sham could go on forever, but ultimately the corruptocrats get too full of themselves and they are finally killed.

You are right, I know. I was reading Storm Before the Storm about the second century BC when they had all that 2020 Democrat-type effort to expand the electorate in the direction the Gracchi brothers wanted so they could take over the government; they were killed. But the ferment continued. I want to read that one again then go on to the THIRD century BC -- why does history always run backward? I've gotten fascinated with Rome again and want to get to the actual collapse of the Republic, if I ever stop going backward in time.

 

[westwall]

It was a Republic in name only for a very long time. the Senate was corrupt as hell. Pompeii has political advertisements on the walls where it is the same family in political power for decades. That is the problem we have now. A political elite that is at war with the PEOPLE. Greed is always their downfall. If they were content to just skim off of the top, and let the people live their lives the sham could go on forever, but ultimately the corruptocrats get too full of themselves and they are finally killed.

You are right, I know. I was reading Storm Before the Storm about the second century BC when they had all that 2020 Democrat-type effort to expand the electorate in the direction the Gracchi brothers wanted so they could take over the government; they were killed. But the ferment continued. I want to read that one again then go on to the THIRD century BC -- why does history always run backward? I've gotten fascinated with Rome again and want to get to the actual collapse of the Republic, if I ever stop going backward in time.

It's backward until the year Zero. Then history runs forward again! Another good period to read about is the Peloponnesian War. Thucydides wrote the history of the wars as they were happening. It is because of the actions of the Athenians during that time that the Founders set our country up as a Republic, instead of a democracy.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

I have read quite a few dystopian novels. They all have one major shortcoming though, and that is this belief that there will be restraint when the end comes. There won't be. The final fall of civilization is going to be catastrophic. And it will last centuries, if not longer. His historical fiction is relatively good, though I prefer Cornwall, or O'Brian, but he is a very good author. There is no doubt about that.

Bernard Cornwell is the undisputed champ of the historical novel..IMO.

BTW..Fall..Dodge in Hell...is as far from a dystopian novel as you can get. It is, in fact, classically utopian.

 

[westwall]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

I have read quite a few dystopian novels. They all have one major shortcoming though, and that is this belief that there will be restraint when the end comes. There won't be. The final fall of civilization is going to be catastrophic. And it will last centuries, if not longer. His historical fiction is relatively good, though I prefer Cornwall, or O'Brian, but he is a very good author. There is no doubt about that.

Bernard Cornwell is the undisputed champ of the historical novel..IMO.

BTW..Fall..Dodge in Hell...is as far from a dystopian novel as you can get. It is, in fact, classically utopian.

I haven't read those, but utopia is a ideal that will never be realized because humans are human.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

Well, maybe I'll take another look at Fall. Very interesting what you said there. I've read Snowcrash at least five times; we named a sheep Da5id from that book. I haven't tried Seveneves yet; thanks for the recommendation. I have the big sample they sent out.

I've had the advantage of hearing Neil speak about Fall..Hell specifically is all allegory--as the creation archetypes in Dodge's unconscious make themselves manifest.

I like the parts of the book that are out of Hell..as they are topical.

Have you ever read Stephen R. Donaldson? His "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are quite good.

I did..years ago..his concept of the anti-hero was refreshing!

Not so big into fantasy though...Sci-fi guy.

How about Kim S. Robinson?

 

[Rocko]

All of which refer to the QUALITY of life improving. And that only if you can afford it. So, once again, how is HUMANITY getting better? This is not a trick question, it is a question of your ability to answer a simple question. This is a philosophical question. Do you know what a philosophical question even is?

I doubt it.

Quality of life improvements will help fuel our spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth by reducing the stress and strain required for existence. Obviously spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth is harder to map and track, and obviously we still have a way to go. By the way, your smug and condescending attitude just makes you look like an ignorant jerk, especially when the point you're trying to drive home isn't actually a good point.

Technological and medical advances have been taking place for some time now. How come that hasn’t translated to spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth thus far?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'd recommend your read Kim Stanley Robinson and Neil Stephanson--but I doubt you could get through them..they postulate a world you literally can't imagine yourself living in.

I love Neal Stephenson --- which novel are you referring to?

I think Fall, Dodge in Hell..would be applicable here, I think----with a taste of Snowcrash.

Figures. You're a cyberpunk lout.

LOL! Guilty sir..cut my teeth on John Brunner and Bill Gibson.

in Fall..Stephanson postulates an almost completely separated Red and Blue America--with alternative data feeds, as it were. He takes the social media conundrum to its ultimate conclusion..and has most of humanity with tailored data feeds...good stuff. The baroque is great...historical sci-fi...great angle. if you read enough of Neil's books..you find most of them are connected.

7Eves is worth the read as well...profound genetic insights..and the scope is huge.

I have read quite a few dystopian novels. They all have one major shortcoming though, and that is this belief that there will be restraint when the end comes. There won't be. The final fall of civilization is going to be catastrophic. And it will last centuries, if not longer. His historical fiction is relatively good, though I prefer Cornwall, or O'Brian, but he is a very good author. There is no doubt about that.

Bernard Cornwell is the undisputed champ of the historical novel..IMO.

BTW..Fall..Dodge in Hell...is as far from a dystopian novel as you can get. It is, in fact, classically utopian.

I haven't read those, but utopia is a ideal that will never be realized because humans are human.

Well..maybe not so much..by the end of his novel...LOL!

 

[Circe]

I have read quite a few dystopian novels. They all have one major shortcoming though, and that is this belief that there will be restraint when the end comes. There won't be. The final fall of civilization is going to be catastrophic. And it will last centuries, if not longer.

Sure. That's certainly what happened last time civilization fell. It was catastrophic and it did take centuries. That's immigrant invasion for you --- those German types, then. Here it will be Latin Americans and Chinese, I suppose. Muslims and Africans taking down the European Union.

I also read a lot of dystopians but these are often preppers or post-apocs and they don't hold back ---- they kill off all the cities in a blaze of hysteria and mob violence (even, in the case of S.J. Stirling, cannibalism) and get on , with the new system the rugged individualists build. I find this highly plausible, at least the violence.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

All of which refer to the QUALITY of life improving. And that only if you can afford it. So, once again, how is HUMANITY getting better? This is not a trick question, it is a question of your ability to answer a simple question. This is a philosophical question. Do you know what a philosophical question even is?

I doubt it.

Quality of life improvements will help fuel our spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth by reducing the stress and strain required for existence. Obviously spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth is harder to map and track, and obviously we still have a way to go. By the way, your smug and condescending attitude just makes you look like an ignorant jerk, especially when the point you're trying to drive home isn't actually a good point.

Technological and medical advances have been taking place for some time now. How come that hasn’t translated to spiritual, emotional and philosophical growth thus far?

Becasue it's just to hard to quantify such growth..and as far as i can tell..progress in those areas is a threat to those who seek power..what if they held a war and nobody came, right?