Why do the God-haters persist?

[Newby]

No there isn't.
You don't have to claim tax exempt status to be a church.
It's a choice that has consequences. It restricts what you can do politically.
The whining by the churches is simply their choosing mammon over message.
You don't want to give up the money.
There is nothing else to it.

Here's another lie from Brucie: "The whining by the churches is simply their choosing mammon over message."

Everytime he sets pen to paper he offers some kind of logical fallacy, like the false dilemma above. We choose both, it's not one or the other. On one hand you need the money to keep the light and heat on, and you can still preach the Gospel. But if an oppressive government decides to revoke our tax exempt status I am all over that.

Anyway, watch for Brucie's twisted logic. He will offer you a false dilemma like the one above, and if you offer a third choice he wil stomp his feet and whine that you didn't answer his question, or that his false dilemma really isn't a false dilemma. Then he will declare himself the winner.

Ain't that right, Brucie? (This is where he attacks me personally, like he did Boss.)

Bingo!!!

 

[freedombecki]

I forgot, Brucie's other gambit is to make it about me, throwing in a few lies and half truths in the bargain.

If you had been a minister you'd know I don't live on an island. There is a huge organization behind me, and I am not in charge.

I know nothing about your denomination.
What I do know by your post is that the hypocrisy is systemic and not personal. The bowing to mammon happens on a denominational level.
Your complicity is your membership in it.
The organization is part of why I left.
I wasn't willing to turn my faith into a business model.

Faith is of God. A business model is of Caesar's realm.
You're conscious of that, and that is good.

Your debate opponent works within an organization of other people known as his church. He's willing to give and take in order to share his understanding of God with ordinary people who seek god, and that is good.

Somewhere in the book of Corinthians, it celebrates the differences of gifts of different believers. That is the best of all.

/Lectio Divinia of a seamstress

 

[Clement]

I forgot, Brucie's other gambit is to make it about me, throwing in a few lies and half truths in the bargain.

If you had been a minister you'd know I don't live on an island. There is a huge organization behind me, and I am not in charge.

I know nothing about your denomination.
What I do know by your post is that the hypocrisy is systemic and not personal. The bowing to mammon happens on a denominational level.
Your complicity is your membership in it.
The organization is part of why I left.
I wasn't willing to turn my faith into a business model.

You must have been a Baptist, they are the ones with the megachurches.

Most of our guys are retired. The ones who are still working serve the church and work at their day jobs, too. I paid for my own education, my own books, and my own vestments and if I have to go to an out of town clericus I pay for it. If anybody is taking a salary I don't know about it.

After all that we still have to pay the rent or mortgage on the buildings, keep the lights on, obtain office supplies, and still support whatever charities we are involved in. This truly is a labor of love because there isn't any mammon to be had, which is why I have never been able to understand why people talk about the "religion business", outside of the TV preachers that Gizmo probably listens to and the RCC.

What I do have is the best bunch of friends in the world, and that is worth more than gold.

 

[thebrucebeat]

I know nothing about your denomination.
What I do know by your post is that the hypocrisy is systemic and not personal. The bowing to mammon happens on a denominational level.
Your complicity is your membership in it.
The organization is part of why I left.
I wasn't willing to turn my faith into a business model.

You must have been a Baptist, they are the ones with the megachurches.

Most of our guys are retired. The ones who are still working serve the church and work at their day jobs, too. I paid for my own education, my own books, and my own vestments and if I have to go to an out of town clericus I pay for it. If anybody is taking a salary I don't know about it.

After all that we still have to pay the rent or mortgage on the buildings, keep the lights on, obtain office supplies, and still support whatever charities we are involved in. This truly is a labor of love because there isn't any mammon to be had, which is why I have never been able to understand why people talk about the "religion business", outside of the TV preachers that Gizmo probably listens to and the RCC.

What I do have is the best bunch of friends in the world, and that is worth more than gold.

So why are you hoping the government changes the law so you are taxed?
You see, you are not being honest. You are praising government for giving you an economic break. You are more than happy to give up your political preaching for the financial benefit.
These are choices.
Where you place your treasure your heart will follow.

 

[Clement]

You must have been a Baptist, they are the ones with the megachurches.

Most of our guys are retired. The ones who are still working serve the church and work at their day jobs, too. I paid for my own education, my own books, and my own vestments and if I have to go to an out of town clericus I pay for it. If anybody is taking a salary I don't know about it.

After all that we still have to pay the rent or mortgage on the buildings, keep the lights on, obtain office supplies, and still support whatever charities we are involved in. This truly is a labor of love because there isn't any mammon to be had, which is why I have never been able to understand why people talk about the "religion business", outside of the TV preachers that Gizmo probably listens to and the RCC.

What I do have is the best bunch of friends in the world, and that is worth more than gold.

So why are you hoping the government changes the law so you are taxed?
You see, you are not being honest. You are praising government for giving you an economic break. You are more than happy to give up your political preaching for the financial benefit.
These are choices.
Where you place your treasure your heart will follow.

Right over your head. I will never understand why the left thinks they are smarter than we are.

 

[HUGGY]

Someday...certainly not in my lifetime the states will individually pass laws making it illegal to offer religious advice in stead of medical advice.

Slowly but surely the grip of the influence and fraud of religion will be understood by intelligent people and pushed back inside the walls of the churches where it belongs.

Who the fuck are you to tell others what they can and cant believe you fascist ?

Amusing rant. Clearly you are flailing in ignorance butchering the dictionary and history calling me a fascist.

I belong to no special "club" receiving favors and a monopoly as are the religists with tax exempt status and forcing the newly elected politicians to swear allegience with a hand on MY book of magic.

I unlike YOU am a free man with a mind of my own and an internet connection that gives me just as much right to say my piece as you and I don't have to swear to a sky fairy to do so.

That would be "who the fuck I am".

 

[thebrucebeat]

No there isn't.
You don't have to claim tax exempt status to be a church.
It's a choice that has consequences. It restricts what you can do politically.
The whining by the churches is simply their choosing mammon over message.
You don't want to give up the money.
There is nothing else to it.

Here's another lie from Brucie: "The whining by the churches is simply their choosing mammon over message."

Everytime he sets pen to paper he offers some kind of logical fallacy, like the false dilemma above. We choose both, it's not one or the other. On one hand you need the money to keep the light and heat on, and you can still preach the Gospel. But if an oppressive government decides to revoke our tax exempt status I am all over that.

Anyway, watch for Brucie's twisted logic. He will offer you a false dilemma like the one above, and if you offer a third choice he wil stomp his feet and whine that you didn't answer his question, or that his false dilemma really isn't a false dilemma. Then he will declare himself the winner.

Ain't that right, Brucie? (This is where he attacks me personally, like he did Boss.)

Bingo!!!

You are the perfect wrestling fan.
You applaud wildly for something that is a complete farce.
No difference here.

 

[sealybobo]

So much hate packed into one post.

We're good with keeping religion out of laws.

We also want laws kept out of religion. That's what statist pigs don't get. You don't get to regulate our religion. So fuck off. And then die and enjoy your eternity.

No hatred in this christians heart. I would think a good person would hope that people who don't believe still get to go to heaven. Only a dick would wish an eternity of hell just for doubting. Only a sadistic cult would be based off a human sacrifice. If it weren't for christians and muslims I'd still be religious or at least spiritual but you all drove us to agnostic atheism.

 

[thebrucebeat]

So why are you hoping the government changes the law so you are taxed?
You see, you are not being honest. You are praising government for giving you an economic break. You are more than happy to give up your political preaching for the financial benefit.
These are choices.
Where you place your treasure your heart will follow.

Right over your head. I will never understand why the left thinks they are smarter than we are.

So dumb you can't give a return argument.
Your attempt to escape the discussion is duly noted.

 

[Clement]

Right over your head. I will never understand why the left thinks they are smarter than we are.

So dumb you can't give a return argument.
Your attempt to escape the discussion is duly noted.

You are certifiable, man. It sometimes aggrivates me when I think lefties are playing dumb, then I realize they really are that stupid. I just can't dumb it down enough for you people.

 

[koshergrl]

So much hate packed into one post.

We're good with keeping religion out of laws.

We also want laws kept out of religion. That's what statist pigs don't get. You don't get to regulate our religion. So fuck off. And then die and enjoy your eternity.

No hatred in this christians heart. I would think a good person would hope that people who don't believe still get to go to heaven. Only a dick would wish an eternity of hell just for doubting. Only a sadistic cult would be based off a human sacrifice. If it weren't for christians and muslims I'd still be religious or at least spiritual but you all drove us to agnostic atheism.

Says the goon who is pushing for state regulation of religion.

 

[sealybobo]

Most scientists who know that 99.999% chance their is no god also say the most rational position on god is to be an agnostic atheist. You don't seem to be all that sharp. I see people saying things to you like "agnostic" and you seem to be grasping for AHAH or GOTCHA moments but all you are showing us is that you do not understand or listen to what people say to you. The definition of close minded. Even an atheist can not say 100% sure there is no god just like we can't prove there are no leprechauns, devils angels or ghosts exists.

So all the organized religions you understand to be bullshit yet you refuse to let go of the concept of god for some strange reason. Because now all you have is a feeling, and the fact that primative man always believed in a higher power. Maybe they saw aliens and thought they were gods? Why not rule that possibility out?

I'm sharp enough to know the difference between "atheist" and "agnostic" and don't run around like an idiot claiming they are one in the same.

If you can't say 100% for sure there is no God, why do you all want to keep saying that? This is what doesn't make any sense to me. Here you admit that you're not 100% certain, but the thread is full of people denying any possibility whatsoever.

I've never said that all the organized religions are "bullshit" only that I didn't subscribe to them. I think they are flawed because man is flawed. That doesn't mean they are bullshit, they have proven to be an effective method of man maintaining his spiritual connection. Also, I personally have more than a "feeling". As I've said, I connect with Spiritual God daily, and God connects with me. I realize great personal gain from this connection, so I have all the evidence I need to believe the connection is real.

Now let me ask you, what am I supposed to do with that? Should I simply ignore what I know is the truth so I can fit in with the "cool" crowd here? Should I say that "I'm not sure" when I am certain? Should I refuse to acknowledge what I know is the truth and idiotically demand some sort of "physical" evidence to "prove" the spiritual?

Sorry, but that ain't how I roll.

No.
We know how you roll.
You will say absolutely anything at any given time and can't keep your arguments straight from one post to another. You trip over your shoelaces constantly.
You have said that the spiritual nature can't be known, but maybe it will be able to be proved one day.
Except, YOU know.
What makes man unique is his connection to the spiritual, unless you read another post of yours where you say the animal kingdom may connect, too.
If something exists in the animal kingdom, that proves your point, but if it doesn't, well, that proves your point, too.
There is plenty of evidence for spiritual nature if you just believe in it FIRST, but you are a big proponent of the scientific method.
You are Doctor Boss, or you are a high ranking double major preparing for his HR job.
You don't think Christians are wrong, you just don't believe in salvation or a personal intercessory god.
You think your god has no interest in you, but he will let you know if you are going to hell and all kinds of other personal interactions you claim.
You are not to be taken seriously in any way.
All people have to do is let you run your mouth and all the hard work is done.
You will embarrass yourself every single time.
I have battled few people with more of a constant barrage of inconsistencies and logical gaffs as you are freely willing to serve up.
You always top it off with your vulgarity strewn sobs when caught with your pants around your ankles and lose all kind of semblance of adult conversation, always resorting to the lie of being taken out of context, even when your entire posts are quoted.
And that's how you roll.

Do you know that when someone arm is cut off and they feel the limb even when it is no longer there? Scientists have proved that the human mind does this and it doesn't even matter if the human was born with that limb or not, the brain can feel an arm there even if one was never present. In short, doesn't matter if god is real to these people. They are primitive man less evolved. Think about how much of our brain we do not use yet. Clearly scientists use more of their brains than the rest of us and they all say god PROBABLY doesn't exist. They can't say for sure because an intelligent person's position on such a claim should always be agnostic atheism. We can't prove there is no santa clause, ghosts, devils, angels, leprechauns, saskwatches/yetti's/chuckacobre, ufo's from other planets.

One other thing I wanted to say about eye witness testimony. We've all seen David Blane do magic and we do not know how he does it. 99% of us don't know how the trick is done. But most of us are smart enough to realize he doesn't know magic. It's a trick. But you saw it with your own eyes, right? That's what I think about eye witness testimonials to seeing exorcists or anything supernatural.

 

[thebrucebeat]

So dumb you can't give a return argument.
Your attempt to escape the discussion is duly noted.

You are certifiable, man. It sometimes aggrivates me when I think lefties are playing dumb, then I realize they really are that stupid. I just can't dumb it down enough for you people.

You aren't hiding your inability to argue very well.
You aren't responding to the argument, because there is no response to the argument that has you coming out well.
My little Runaway.
Run, run, run, run Runaway!
(Thanks Del Shannon!)

 

[sealybobo]

So much hate packed into one post.

We're good with keeping religion out of laws.

We also want laws kept out of religion. That's what statist pigs don't get. You don't get to regulate our religion. So fuck off. And then die and enjoy your eternity.

No hatred in this christians heart. I would think a good person would hope that people who don't believe still get to go to heaven. Only a dick would wish an eternity of hell just for doubting. Only a sadistic cult would be based off a human sacrifice. If it weren't for christians and muslims I'd still be religious or at least spiritual but you all drove us to agnostic atheism.

Says the goon who is pushing for state regulation of religion.

I never said anything about regulating religion on a state or federal level, but since you brought it up, first of all you are paranoid. The politicians aren't going to go after the churches, at least not yet. If 51% of the public one day insists on it during an election year it could happen. They really don't deserve tax exempt status, but whatever I don't give it much thought. It's a con/scam/gimmick/7000 year old way of controlling the masses. Started out as a cult, supposedly happened. Why do we know for sure because 11 people said so? They were the only ones that believed or spread the word of Jesus and it took over 80 years to write the cults story book (bible). So it may not even have happened. Who cares the jews say he was a real man. Their religion is a cult too. They are all in on it together. One can't call the other out because it would be calling your story out too. And the jews say the same thing I do, that Jesus was just a man, not the son of God, not a messiah. Just a man. So they are basically saying all the miracle shit you guys say he did is BULLSHIT. The Jews and christians for hundreds of years killed each other to squash the other's religion. Learn your history. Kings used religion to control the masses. My grandparents and your grandparents. Its time to wake up. Want the human race to live forever, go with science. Want to hope your soul lives for eternity in streets of gold where lions sleep with lambs? Want to tell yourself a fairytale? Go for it. I can't. I'm too smart. Christians and Muslims are really dumb. I think Jews all know there is no god. They sure act like it. LOL

 

[sealybobo]

So dumb you can't give a return argument.
Your attempt to escape the discussion is duly noted.

You are certifiable, man. It sometimes aggrivates me when I think lefties are playing dumb, then I realize they really are that stupid. I just can't dumb it down enough for you people.

Explain it to me from the beginning. Why are you right and what is your position.

 

[sealybobo]

I know nothing about your denomination.
What I do know by your post is that the hypocrisy is systemic and not personal. The bowing to mammon happens on a denominational level.
Your complicity is your membership in it.
The organization is part of why I left.
I wasn't willing to turn my faith into a business model.

You must have been a Baptist, they are the ones with the megachurches.

Most of our guys are retired. The ones who are still working serve the church and work at their day jobs, too. I paid for my own education, my own books, and my own vestments and if I have to go to an out of town clericus I pay for it. If anybody is taking a salary I don't know about it.

After all that we still have to pay the rent or mortgage on the buildings, keep the lights on, obtain office supplies, and still support whatever charities we are involved in. This truly is a labor of love because there isn't any mammon to be had, which is why I have never been able to understand why people talk about the "religion business", outside of the TV preachers that Gizmo probably listens to and the RCC.

What I do have is the best bunch of friends in the world, and that is worth more than gold.

a. Notice just like a cult everyone works for free and no one knows exactly where all the money goes.
b. I love the point someone made where religion decided to take a tax break over getting political so it needs to shut the fuck up. Great point whoever made it.
c. If you don't have enough members to fund your cult then let the free market decide it's fate.
d. Atheists are going to start a tax exempt church for non believers. Like the word marriage you don't own the word church. We want the tax breaks too. We want to meet with like minded people who agree there is no god, most likely. And we are 100% sure we won't burn in hell for not believing christians or muslims. In return for the tax break we won't lobby our government or get involved in politics and like the current churches we will occasionally help someone but not nearly enough.
e. Start companies and force catholics to have abortions because pregnant women hurt the bottom line. Either get the abortion or you are fired. But its covered under Obamacare.

 

[HUGGY]

You are certifiable, man. It sometimes aggrivates me when I think lefties are playing dumb, then I realize they really are that stupid. I just can't dumb it down enough for you people.

You aren't hiding your inability to argue very well.
You aren't responding to the argument, because there is no response to the argument that has you coming out well.
My little Runaway.
Run, run, run, run Runaway!
(Thanks Del Shannon!)

In response to your sig line. A note worth noting...

Not everyone that rejects the myths and groupthink of religion came to this from some trauma encountered in youth or at the hand of relatives. Some of us have just observed fairly and truly and come to the most rational conclusion we could.

The anger ...yes anger fueling mine and others argument is mostly from the defense of our well thought out position. I just don't see any justice resulting from giving liars and fools a pass on something so fundamental.

 

[thebrucebeat]

You aren't hiding your inability to argue very well.
You aren't responding to the argument, because there is no response to the argument that has you coming out well.
My little Runaway.
Run, run, run, run Runaway!
(Thanks Del Shannon!)

In response to your sig line. A note worth noting...

Not everyone that rejects the myths and groupthink of religion came to this from some trauma encountered in youth or at the hand of relatives. Some of us have just observed fairly and truly and come to the most rational conclusion we could.

The anger ...yes anger fueling mine and others argument is mostly from the defense of our well thought out position. I just don't see any justice resulting from giving liars and fools a pass on something so fundamental.

The heart of his comment is about rejecting the childish notion of a personal god, as you do. Yet, he remains humble in the face of an awesome universe. There is much we don't, and will never, know. With that, he leaves the door open, if just a crack, and rejects those that don't.

 

[sealybobo]

You aren't hiding your inability to argue very well.
You aren't responding to the argument, because there is no response to the argument that has you coming out well.
My little Runaway.
Run, run, run, run Runaway!
(Thanks Del Shannon!)

In response to your sig line. A note worth noting...

Not everyone that rejects the myths and groupthink of religion came to this from some trauma encountered in youth or at the hand of relatives. Some of us have just observed fairly and truly and come to the most rational conclusion we could.

The anger ...yes anger fueling mine and others argument is mostly from the defense of our well thought out position. I just don't see any justice resulting from giving liars and fools a pass on something so fundamental.

My church proved to be foul when we were young and our parents stopped taking us other than easter maybe. They still never told us there was no god in fact my dad is where I was a couple months ago. He realizes christianity is man made but there must be a god. I'm trying to explain to him there doesn't have to be a god. If the universe couldn't be made on it's own then who made god, right? Anyways, then we got older and my brother and I went looking for brides at church. My brother scored a good one. Good for him. The church has done him well. Good for him. That doesn't mean god exists though. And not believing hasn't done me any harm just like god hasn't hurt him. But god does cause people to be evil and all religions are corrupt and made up and 99.999% chance there is no god and even if there is you are a mosquito to him.

Religions big mistake was saying they believe people lived to be 800 years old and when they said they take the arc, adam and eve and moses stories literally. Man has evolved too far and science has debunked your false claims too often. In the future, when you say you are religious instead of most people agreeing with you most people in the room will look at you like you are stupid. One day only atheists can be president. No cult leaders or followers.

Anyways, my parents never discouraged us from the church but they also never said god was not real. I came up with that on my own. I wouldn't ever even tell my brother because he would freak out. I don't want to offend him or challenge his religion. That's why I come here to say he's as stupid as you guys.

 

[sealybobo]

In response to your sig line. A note worth noting...

Not everyone that rejects the myths and groupthink of religion came to this from some trauma encountered in youth or at the hand of relatives. Some of us have just observed fairly and truly and come to the most rational conclusion we could.

The anger ...yes anger fueling mine and others argument is mostly from the defense of our well thought out position. I just don't see any justice resulting from giving liars and fools a pass on something so fundamental.

The heart of his comment is about rejecting the childish notion of a personal god, as you do. Yet, he remains humble in the face of an awesome universe. There is much we don't, and will never, know. With that, he leaves the door open, if just a crack, and rejects those that don't.

Agnostic Atheism is the most logical position to have.