Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

Let me rephrase. Isn't the word Allah the Arabic word for god? Wouldn't a Christian speaking Arabic say allah instead of god? I seem to recall a story about a Muslim-run country recently trying to get Christians to remove the word allah from their Bibles.

I've certainly read from multiple sources that allah is the Arabic word for god, but I don't know the language at all.

I've tried to do a quick search about this moon god thing, but pretty much all that came up seemed to be Christian sources making the claim and Islamic sources denying it.

Well, since I am non-religious, I really don't have a dog in this hunt, I am just going by what archaeologists have discovered and history has recorded. That's the thing about history, you can't run away from it. It is a common misconception that Allah and God are the same, largely due to Muhammad teaching this lie after the fact. The pagan deity Allah: God of the Moon, existed long before Muhammad. Now, I am not here to dispute Muhammad any more than I'm here to dispute Jesus or Abraham. I'm just reporting the facts. You can believe Muhammad or history, doesn't really matter to me.

That's the thing. It's not a question of believing Muhammad or history. I have not seem evidence that it is history. Like I said, looking up allah as the moon god gave me a bunch of sites which were either Christian or Muslim. I didn't get archeological sites, historical sites, etc. Where did you get this information from? Then I could go see for myself.

You haven't really answered my question about the word allah, either, unless you are saying it does not mean god in Arabic, but instead means the specific moon god you're talking about.

Well I learned this from a Comparative Religious Studies course I took in college about 35 years ago. I can't explain why the abundance of history and archeology sites on the Internet don't have specific information about this, perhaps because it conflicts with the major religious teachings of Islam which denies this? But we all know that if you can't find something on the Internet from a completely non-bias science, history or archeology site, about a religious topic, it must not be valid because the Internet is perfect and flawless, right? So there must be some other valid explanation for what the crescent moon and star symbol means, or why Muhammad said "Allah is greatest" instead of "Allah is great." I guess the recorded history of Allah which predates Muhammad and Islam is a case of people just being forward thinkers with psychic ability?

Allah was a pagan deity before Muhammad. Muslims deny this for obvious reasons. It is a major skeleton in the closet for Islam, but I am shocked that you only found religious sites discussing this topic.

 

[Boss]

Only a fool believes something that requires blind faith. And you?

But you have blind faith that man invented spirituality. You've presented no evidence to support that idea. You've repeatedly denounced various religious incarnations of God without an ounce of evidence to support your views. So are you admitting you're a fool here?

 

[Montrovant]

I asked a perfectly reasonable question and you responded with snide sarcasm.

I didn't say this whole moon god thing is invalid, hence my question about where you heard it. I said that I only found contradictory religious sources.

 

[Slyhunter]

Only a fool believes something that requires blind faith. And you?

But you have blind faith that man invented spirituality. You've presented no evidence to support that idea. You've repeatedly denounced various religious incarnations of God without an ounce of evidence to support your views. So are you admitting you're a fool here?

You don't prove a negative. You must first prove the positive. And there is no proof that God exists. The bible is just another book of fairytales.

 

[Boss]

I asked a perfectly reasonable question and you responded with snide sarcasm.

I didn't say this whole moon god thing is invalid, hence my question about where you heard it. I said that I only found contradictory religious sources.

LOL... and I am asking you.... Geee, why do you think that is???

I think it's like the predominate point of contention between Christianity and Islam. I suspect legitimate archeology and history sites aren't interested in being denounced by Muslims or Christians, so they avoid this topic. That simply doesn't mean the archeological or historic evidence doesn't exist.

 

[Boss]

Only a fool believes something that requires blind faith. And you?

But you have blind faith that man invented spirituality. You've presented no evidence to support that idea. You've repeatedly denounced various religious incarnations of God without an ounce of evidence to support your views. So are you admitting you're a fool here?

You don't prove a negative. You must first prove the positive. And there is no proof that God exists. The bible is just another book of fairytales.

That's a faith-based belief unless you have evidence to support it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Is it possible to hate that which does not exist?

 

[HUGGY]

But you have blind faith that man invented spirituality. You've presented no evidence to support that idea. You've repeatedly denounced various religious incarnations of God without an ounce of evidence to support your views. So are you admitting you're a fool here?

You don't prove a negative. You must first prove the positive. And there is no proof that God exists. The bible is just another book of fairytales.

That's a faith-based belief unless you have evidence to support it.

You think someone must have unsupported faith to have suspicion that talking snakes and the mutitude of myths in the first testament including the tablets supposedly fashioned on a mountain top for Moses and the many one-off scenerios like ressurection described in the King James bible to be untrue?

At some point reality must draw a line in the sand to distinguish fact from fantasy or any and all stories from any and all sources must be accepted equally and the doors to the mental hospitals must be opened for the patients to come and go as they please.

AND what is the point of the rules of evidense in a courtroom? If all story is just as valid as any other what separates truth from jibberish?

You say faith?

Nonsense.

Faith alone is an absolute disqualification.

 

[MaryL]

I pray to god that he protects me from his followers. Just one more headache to add to life's pointless troubles. Not gonna happen. If god IS real, he's a sadist.

 

[Boss]

You don't prove a negative. You must first prove the positive. And there is no proof that God exists. The bible is just another book of fairytales.

That's a faith-based belief unless you have evidence to support it.

You think someone must have unsupported faith to have suspicion that talking snakes and the mutitude of myths in the first testament including the tablets supposedly fashioned on a mountain top for Moses and the many one-off scenerios like ressurection described in the King James bible to be untrue?

At some point reality must draw a line in the sand to distinguish fact from fantasy or any and all stories from any and all sources must be accepted equally and the doors to the mental hospitals must be opened for the patients to come and go as they please.

AND what is the point of the rules of evidense in a courtroom? If all story is just as valid as any other what separates truth from jibberish?

You say faith?

Nonsense.

Faith alone is an absolute disqualification.

Well, when I read what was posted it appears to be a statement of believed truth... "The bible is just another book of fairytales." There is nothing there to indicate this is only a suspicion. I don't have any problem with someone stating they suspect the bible is a book of fairytales, it's when that is turned into a statement of "fact" that it becomes a faith-based belief. There is no evidence for it, and things that are believed without evidence are faith.

The rules of evidence in a courtroom are that you can't prove something didn't happen unless you have evidence it didn't happen. Faith is faith regardless of whether it's applied to religious beliefs, the belief that principles of physics are universal, or the belief that God does not exist. Faith is belief in something without evidence. Now, there isn't anything wrong with having faith... I have faith the sun is going to come up in the morning. I don't know that it will, there is no evidence it has to, there is a possibility it won't.... but I have faith it will.

 

[Montrovant]

I asked a perfectly reasonable question and you responded with snide sarcasm.

I didn't say this whole moon god thing is invalid, hence my question about where you heard it. I said that I only found contradictory religious sources.

LOL... and I am asking you.... Geee, why do you think that is???

I think it's like the predominate point of contention between Christianity and Islam. I suspect legitimate archeology and history sites aren't interested in being denounced by Muslims or Christians, so they avoid this topic. That simply doesn't mean the archeological or historic evidence doesn't exist.

Until you brought it up I'd never heard of allah being a pagan moon god before, so that certainly doesn't seem likely to be the predominate point of contention between the two religions.

And again, there are instances like this :
Malaysia's highest court backs a ban on Allah in Christian bibles | World news | The Guardian
where the word allah is used by Christians and supposedly has been for many years.

I don't know if Islam grew from some moon god worshiping religion. I just haven't seen a source that seem unbiased enough about the history to accept either way.

 

[Cenotaph]

How can one hate something which does not exist?

 

[HUGGY]

That's a faith-based belief unless you have evidence to support it.

You think someone must have unsupported faith to have suspicion that talking snakes and the mutitude of myths in the first testament including the tablets supposedly fashioned on a mountain top for Moses and the many one-off scenerios like ressurection described in the King James bible to be untrue?

At some point reality must draw a line in the sand to distinguish fact from fantasy or any and all stories from any and all sources must be accepted equally and the doors to the mental hospitals must be opened for the patients to come and go as they please.

AND what is the point of the rules of evidense in a courtroom? If all story is just as valid as any other what separates truth from jibberish?

You say faith?

Nonsense.

Faith alone is an absolute disqualification.

Well, when I read what was posted it appears to be a statement of believed truth... "The bible is just another book of fairytales." There is nothing there to indicate this is only a suspicion. I don't have any problem with someone stating they suspect the bible is a book of fairytales, it's when that is turned into a statement of "fact" that it becomes a faith-based belief. There is no evidence for it, and things that are believed without evidence are faith.

The rules of evidence in a courtroom are that you can't prove something didn't happen unless you have evidence it didn't happen. Faith is faith regardless of whether it's applied to religious beliefs, the belief that principles of physics are universal, or the belief that God does not exist. Faith is belief in something without evidence. Now, there isn't anything wrong with having faith... I have faith the sun is going to come up in the morning. I don't know that it will, there is no evidence it has to, there is a possibility it won't.... but I have faith it will.

Over reaching is the standard refuge for those selling nonsense and snake oil.

There most certainly is abundant evidense that the sun will "come up tommorow morning". That rediculous statement is componded by the fact that the sun does not "come up".

The earth rotates. So... the earth would need to stop rotating at a point where the position of the sun is behind the earth in relation to you and I OR the sun would need to vanish altogether in which case we would immediately go hurtling off into space as there would be nothing to keep us in this orbit. Only those living in close proximitry to active volcanos would survive more than a few hours.

Something would need to act on the earth or the sun to cause these two entities to react as you suggest is possible for not faith keeping everything in it's place.

This would be counter to the law of physics that demands matter in motion must stay in motion until acted upon by something else. There is nothing within range of a few hours away that can act upon our earth or sun.

Faith cannot play into the possibility of the status of the positions of the sun or earth.

What we have here is just another snake oil salesman pronouncing the big lie as all religion is based.

Because we don't know ALL of the answers to ALL of the questions still remaining about the universe then ALL bets are off and ALL possibilities are on the table.

One of the more amazing things people like you are still trying to sell is how stupid you believe people are.

We are not as ignorant as humanity was 2-3000 years ago.

Science has solved much of the mystery of the universe.

You and those like you are drowning in the quicksand of knowledge. It is burying you and your arguments.

What your argument reminds me of is the attempt of some to replace much of the religious myth replaced by science with intelligent design. Your particular "twist" is to attempt to breath life into faith claiming that belief in an all powerfull being or "force" preceeds even religion and MUST be considered as a seperate and irrefutable constant of human developement.

You want to roll out your theory with the same old argument that no one can prove it does not exist just as with faith of the existance of a god.

You claim no responsibility to factually prove any of your statements. Of course as you believe... it is up to the nay sayers to prove your theory is false... not the other way around.

Science would do the world and human developement a favor by just cutting to the chase by proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that god does not and can not exist.

This false "high road" is a copout and causing more harm than good.

Allowing everyone to believe whatever they want is a quaint notion sounding much better than it is. There is something to be said for taking responsibility for what one says also.

Promoting fraud is morally wrong. Science could do much in defining the truth or fiction in regards to statements concerning the religious dieties by people that recieve money by continuing to promote these lies..

 

[Boss]

You think someone must have unsupported faith to have suspicion that talking snakes and the mutitude of myths in the first testament including the tablets supposedly fashioned on a mountain top for Moses and the many one-off scenerios like ressurection described in the King James bible to be untrue?

At some point reality must draw a line in the sand to distinguish fact from fantasy or any and all stories from any and all sources must be accepted equally and the doors to the mental hospitals must be opened for the patients to come and go as they please.

AND what is the point of the rules of evidense in a courtroom? If all story is just as valid as any other what separates truth from jibberish?

You say faith?

Nonsense.

Faith alone is an absolute disqualification.

Well, when I read what was posted it appears to be a statement of believed truth... "The bible is just another book of fairytales." There is nothing there to indicate this is only a suspicion. I don't have any problem with someone stating they suspect the bible is a book of fairytales, it's when that is turned into a statement of "fact" that it becomes a faith-based belief. There is no evidence for it, and things that are believed without evidence are faith.

The rules of evidence in a courtroom are that you can't prove something didn't happen unless you have evidence it didn't happen. Faith is faith regardless of whether it's applied to religious beliefs, the belief that principles of physics are universal, or the belief that God does not exist. Faith is belief in something without evidence. Now, there isn't anything wrong with having faith... I have faith the sun is going to come up in the morning. I don't know that it will, there is no evidence it has to, there is a possibility it won't.... but I have faith it will.

Over reaching is the standard refuge for those selling nonsense and snake oil.

There most certainly is abundant evidense that the sun will "come up tommorow morning". That rediculous statement is componded by the fact that the sun does not "come up".

The earth rotates. So... the earth would need to stop rotating at a point where the position of the sun is behind the earth in relation to you and I OR the sun would need to vanish altogether in which case we would immediately go hurtling off into space as there would be nothing to keep us in this orbit. Only those living in close proximitry to active volcanos would survive more than a few hours.

Something would need to act on the earth or the sun to cause these two entities to react as you suggest is possible for not faith keeping everything in it's place.

Right... and I have faith none of those things are going to happen and the sun will rise tomorrow. My faith is not based on evidence it will, I don't know if it will or not, and you don't know either. You and I have faith that it will because it always has before. I can certainly think of several things that could cause the sun not to rise in the morning.. the sun could explode... a gamma ray burst could obliterate earth... an alien starship could destroy the planet... or some cosmic event that only happens once every 14.5 billion years could happen. Again... I have FAITH these things aren't going to happen. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

This would be counter to the law of physics that demands matter in motion must stay in motion until acted upon by something else. There is nothing within range of a few hours away that can act upon our earth or sun.

You have faith that is the case. You have faith the law of physics will act as it always has. I don't have evidence that something isn't a few seconds away, much less a few hours. I have pretty substantial faith that nothing is going to happen, but no one is certain.

Faith cannot play into the possibility of the status of the positions of the sun or earth.

But it does. Now you can certainly have high confidence in your faith, good reason for having the faith, I'm not arguing that. Still, unless you can prove something is true you have to rely on faith. You can't prove the sun will come up tomorrow, only that you have faith the probability is high.

What we have here is just another snake oil salesman pronouncing the big lie as all religion is based.

Well I am not selling any snake oil or speaking on behalf of any religion. We're discussing philosophy of faith. You're biased against me because I don't subscribe to your disbelief of God and you want to pretend I am religious. This is clouding your ability to think objectively and properly evaluate the points I am making.

Because we don't know ALL of the answers to ALL of the questions still remaining about the universe then ALL bets are off and ALL possibilities are on the table.

Possibility is all that science can evaluate. Science can't do a thing with a conclusion. Once you've made a conclusion on anything, you've abandoned science for faith. I don't think we KNOW anything about the universe. We have faith in our tests and observations which show a high probability of possibility. Science remains open to all possibilities which are still on the table. If you disagree, you are exercising a faith-based belief.

One of the more amazing things people like you are still trying to sell is how stupid you believe people are.

We are not as ignorant as humanity was 2-3000 years ago.

Science has solved much of the mystery of the universe.

This statement can apply to every age of man since our inception. Man ALWAYS assumes he is at the height of knowledge and understanding. Again, "Science" hasn't "solved" anything, science can only posit probabilities of possibility. MAN determines, through FAITH, that things are "solved," and need no further investigation.

Science would do the world and human developement a favor by just cutting to the chase by proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that god does not and can not exist.

But science doesn't (and can't) conclude things. Conclusions require faith. Science cannot evaluate faith. Science can only evaluate probabilities and predict possibility. What you seem to want to do is elevate Science to status of a deity. You've simply made Science into your God. And hey... that's fine, everyone needs a God, it's human nature.

 

[HUGGY]

Well, when I read what was posted it appears to be a statement of believed truth... "The bible is just another book of fairytales." There is nothing there to indicate this is only a suspicion. I don't have any problem with someone stating they suspect the bible is a book of fairytales, it's when that is turned into a statement of "fact" that it becomes a faith-based belief. There is no evidence for it, and things that are believed without evidence are faith.

The rules of evidence in a courtroom are that you can't prove something didn't happen unless you have evidence it didn't happen. Faith is faith regardless of whether it's applied to religious beliefs, the belief that principles of physics are universal, or the belief that God does not exist. Faith is belief in something without evidence. Now, there isn't anything wrong with having faith... I have faith the sun is going to come up in the morning. I don't know that it will, there is no evidence it has to, there is a possibility it won't.... but I have faith it will.

Over reaching is the standard refuge for those selling nonsense and snake oil.

There most certainly is abundant evidense that the sun will "come up tommorow morning". That rediculous statement is componded by the fact that the sun does not "come up".

The earth rotates. So... the earth would need to stop rotating at a point where the position of the sun is behind the earth in relation to you and I OR the sun would need to vanish altogether in which case we would immediately go hurtling off into space as there would be nothing to keep us in this orbit. Only those living in close proximitry to active volcanos would survive more than a few hours.

Something would need to act on the earth or the sun to cause these two entities to react as you suggest is possible for not faith keeping everything in it's place.

Right... and I have faith none of those things are going to happen and the sun will rise tomorrow. My faith is not based on evidence it will, I don't know if it will or not, and you don't know either. You and I have faith that it will because it always has before. I can certainly think of several things that could cause the sun not to rise in the morning.. the sun could explode... a gamma ray burst could obliterate earth... an alien starship could destroy the planet... or some cosmic event that only happens once every 14.5 billion years could happen. Again... I have FAITH these things aren't going to happen. I have no reason to believe otherwise.



You have faith that is the case. You have faith the law of physics will act as it always has. I don't have evidence that something isn't a few seconds away, much less a few hours. I have pretty substantial faith that nothing is going to happen, but no one is certain.



But it does. Now you can certainly have high confidence in your faith, good reason for having the faith, I'm not arguing that. Still, unless you can prove something is true you have to rely on faith. You can't prove the sun will come up tomorrow, only that you have faith the probability is high.



Well I am not selling any snake oil or speaking on behalf of any religion. We're discussing philosophy of faith. You're biased against me because I don't subscribe to your disbelief of God and you want to pretend I am religious. This is clouding your ability to think objectively and properly evaluate the points I am making.



Possibility is all that science can evaluate. Science can't do a thing with a conclusion. Once you've made a conclusion on anything, you've abandoned science for faith. I don't think we KNOW anything about the universe. We have faith in our tests and observations which show a high probability of possibility. Science remains open to all possibilities which are still on the table. If you disagree, you are exercising a faith-based belief.

One of the more amazing things people like you are still trying to sell is how stupid you believe people are.

We are not as ignorant as humanity was 2-3000 years ago.

Science has solved much of the mystery of the universe.

This statement can apply to every age of man since our inception. Man ALWAYS assumes he is at the height of knowledge and understanding. Again, "Science" hasn't "solved" anything, science can only posit probabilities of possibility. MAN determines, through FAITH, that things are "solved," and need no further investigation.

Science would do the world and human developement a favor by just cutting to the chase by proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that god does not and can not exist.

But science doesn't (and can't) conclude things. Conclusions require faith. Science cannot evaluate faith. Science can only evaluate probabilities and predict possibility. What you seem to want to do is elevate Science to status of a deity. You've simply made Science into your God. And hey... that's fine, everyone needs a God, it's human nature.

"You have faith the law of physics will act as it always has"

Not since that theory passed into the status of being a law and not some well thought out and supported idea has anyone needed faith to believe it.

 

[PostmodernProph]

How can one hate something which does not exist?

gosh, and I think you're only the eighth person to say that.....

 

[Boss]

Over reaching is the standard refuge for those selling nonsense and snake oil.

There most certainly is abundant evidense that the sun will "come up tommorow morning". That rediculous statement is componded by the fact that the sun does not "come up".

The earth rotates. So... the earth would need to stop rotating at a point where the position of the sun is behind the earth in relation to you and I OR the sun would need to vanish altogether in which case we would immediately go hurtling off into space as there would be nothing to keep us in this orbit. Only those living in close proximitry to active volcanos would survive more than a few hours.

Something would need to act on the earth or the sun to cause these two entities to react as you suggest is possible for not faith keeping everything in it's place.

Right... and I have faith none of those things are going to happen and the sun will rise tomorrow. My faith is not based on evidence it will, I don't know if it will or not, and you don't know either. You and I have faith that it will because it always has before. I can certainly think of several things that could cause the sun not to rise in the morning.. the sun could explode... a gamma ray burst could obliterate earth... an alien starship could destroy the planet... or some cosmic event that only happens once every 14.5 billion years could happen. Again... I have FAITH these things aren't going to happen. I have no reason to believe otherwise.



You have faith that is the case. You have faith the law of physics will act as it always has. I don't have evidence that something isn't a few seconds away, much less a few hours. I have pretty substantial faith that nothing is going to happen, but no one is certain.



But it does. Now you can certainly have high confidence in your faith, good reason for having the faith, I'm not arguing that. Still, unless you can prove something is true you have to rely on faith. You can't prove the sun will come up tomorrow, only that you have faith the probability is high.



Well I am not selling any snake oil or speaking on behalf of any religion. We're discussing philosophy of faith. You're biased against me because I don't subscribe to your disbelief of God and you want to pretend I am religious. This is clouding your ability to think objectively and properly evaluate the points I am making.



Possibility is all that science can evaluate. Science can't do a thing with a conclusion. Once you've made a conclusion on anything, you've abandoned science for faith. I don't think we KNOW anything about the universe. We have faith in our tests and observations which show a high probability of possibility. Science remains open to all possibilities which are still on the table. If you disagree, you are exercising a faith-based belief.



This statement can apply to every age of man since our inception. Man ALWAYS assumes he is at the height of knowledge and understanding. Again, "Science" hasn't "solved" anything, science can only posit probabilities of possibility. MAN determines, through FAITH, that things are "solved," and need no further investigation.

Science would do the world and human developement a favor by just cutting to the chase by proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that god does not and can not exist.

But science doesn't (and can't) conclude things. Conclusions require faith. Science cannot evaluate faith. Science can only evaluate probabilities and predict possibility. What you seem to want to do is elevate Science to status of a deity. You've simply made Science into your God. And hey... that's fine, everyone needs a God, it's human nature.

"You have faith the law of physics will act as it always has"

Not since that theory passed into the status of being a law and not some well thought out and supported idea has anyone needed faith to believe it.

It doesn't matter what status something has passed into or how well thought out and supported an idea is. You can't know what's going to happen in the future, time may not even exist for the laws of physics to operate in. Like I said, perhaps universes (like electrons) simply poof out of existence after 14.5 billion years? Do you have any evidence they don't? Please don't try and distort my point by assuming I am making this argument and believe this will happen... I don't. I have faith the universe will continue to exist as it has for the past 14.5 billion years, and the laws of physics will continue to work as they have. In fact, I have unquestionable faith that will be the case. Still... I do have faith.

My point is, faith exists and you have it whether you realize you do or not. Even in the most proven principles of science you hold so near and dear, you must have faith.

 

[sealybobo]

I pretty much ignore GISMYS. His/her crazy ramblings aren't worth the time to read or reply to IMO.

Perhaps your feelings stem from me jumping to conclusions about you. Maybe I misunderstood a post you wrote or I agreed with you and in going into my rant I started writing as if I was writing at a theist because I often do that. Do you believe in god or not? And if you didn't vote for bush, who did you vote for? I have read through some of your past posts and I'm trying to put a finger on you but I really haven't had much luck. You definately aren't black or white. You are more a gray.

And, my theory of how they use religion to control the masses. You disagree with that? You don't see how they use god in politics?

I have a feeling that if voting age adults are dumb enough to believe in a god, they are pretty much dumb enough to believe anything because belief in god requires blind faith and I don't have blind faith in anything.

I didn't vote for Bush or anyone else.

YOU are what's wrong with America.

 

[sealybobo]

How can one hate something which does not exist?

If there is a god he has to be sitting back scratching his head asking himself how they figured out he existed since he has never visited or talked to anyone. I've never seen one glimpse. Seems completely made up to me when people say god talked to them, or that I have to have faith that god talked to people 2000 years ago. by liars who use god to control people. It's certainly a big business and they use it politically too. The king used his divine right to collect taxes. Slave owners used it to keep their slaves in line. Pharoahs used it on their slaves. Don't worry you only live to 30, there is an afterlife.

The rich and corporations and GOP politicians use it today to sucker the masses too.

So I don't hate god. I hate the people who use god in bad ways. How's god doing over in Gaza? Don't all those people believe in god? Good job god.

 

[GreenBean]

Is it possible to hate that which does not exist?

No - they hate the fact that not everyone agrees with them because other people believe God does exist . How do they disagree with the Gods Of Liberalism !