Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

You know what? I'm not the one making any claims. YOU ARE. I say the jury is still out even after all your evidence.

Well, no you're not and that is simply a lie. You keep saying God does not exist, you will say it again and again before you finish this specific rant. So the jury is not out, the trial is over and you've convicted God of not existing. You continue to make claims you can't back up. The specific one we are dealing with at the moment is about how man conjured up God from his imagination, then proceeded to devoutly believe in this imaginary entity for all his existence.

You're making the claim about some god thing and you talk about spiritual energy and karma and you poo poo all the scientific stuff about how the human brain has a wild imagination. Bottom line is, I'm not making any claims. You're claiming there is a god. I don't believe you. If you're not claiming I go to hell if I don't believe, then I guess we're cool, right?

You've admitted you believe in karma. There is no "scientific stuff" to indicate living organisms create imaginary entities to cope with fears or hold to these convictions for all their existence. You're unable to give even one example in nature of persistent irrational behavior. In fact, you can't even give another example in humans of a persistent irrational behavior which has always existed in the species. Even though this completely defies nature, it's your reasoning. Why? Because some atheist blogger said so.

And we're only going to be cool when you stop the lying.

I have a beef with a lot of theists and their organized religions. You seem harmless. And I can't prove to you your imaginary friend isn't real. If he is real to you I guess he's real. But only to you. Does this imaginary friend tell you to go around and convince people to believe and if we don't down we go to hates? If not, have fun with your big buddy. And trust me, I don't need a god, I have a conscience. But it is great being able to think dirty thoughts and not fear some perv is watching.

Here again you are making statements you can't back up. You don't know what is real to other people, so why do you pretend you do? You keep claiming God is imaginary when we've already established it's not imagination. God doesn't tell me to convince you or to convert you. I realize you are an impediment to the flow of positive spiritual energy because of your ignorance. I'm just trying to help you 'see the light' if you'll pardon the pun. But hey... good luck with your perverted thoughts, I bet Robin Williams probably thought he didn't need God either.

PS. Why does the universe have to have a creator and god doesn't?

Because the universe is physical and God isn't.

In fact, based on how you try to define god, you aren't even talking about god. You're talking about the product of god. That's your problem. You're thinking too small. The universe and all the life and energy and your spirit are not god, if there is a god, he's on the other side of the black hole watching all this. What you describe as god is just god's creation. God is much bigger than you even think. No? There is no god. It's all just what you see.

What happened to "I'm not the one making any claims -- I say the jury is still out..." Sounds like you've reneged on that statement entirely, now you're saying there is no God. Is that what "agnostic atheism" is... like a bipolar disorder where you go back and forth from not being sure if there is a god or not, to proclaiming there is no god?

It's all just what you see.

Interesting statement. What you and I see are material things comprised of atoms. Each atom is comprised of a nucleus and orbiting electrons. Those electrons disappear and reappear, or occupy two places at the same time. We bust open one of those atoms and all sorts of amazing subatomic particles come out. These amazing tiny particles give matter all kinds of various properties. What we see is a creation of something far more advanced than we are, far more powerful than we will ever be, and something far greater than we can even imagine.

No reason to make up a god. The universe is amazing by itself. Worship science. It'll cure you someday hopefully and maybe we can build a space ship and move before this planet is over with. No god's going to help with that just like he doesn't help you when you are dying other than you feel better thinking this isn't the end. Sorry, it is. But be happy you got the time you did. And I feel bad telling you. Like telling a child about santa.

Again, God has saved me from certain death several times. I appreciate science, I worship God. Science can sometimes help to explain how God does some of the amazing things we experience as part of God's creation. Yes, I agree, it's amazing... too amazing for random chance to explain, in my opinion.

But again I think people who believe in god are less advanced/evolved and we will advance faster and be better citizens of this planet when we wise up. If we believe that lie we are dumb. If we need a lie to be good, what does that say about us? I reject that. Maybe we should tell kids that stuff to keep them in line but its not good for adults to believe in fairy tales. Look at what theists are producing. Garbage in garbage out. A stupid ignorant greedy lazy brainwashed society of sheep easily manipulated by the man through the church and media. Gullible.

You're contradicting your own points again. Here, let me refresh you memory:

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

Why do you keep going back and forth with this? Is that also part of this bipolar "atheist agnosticism" you're afflicted with? I think maybe you need some professional help.

 

[sealybobo]

lol, then for the lurkers out there who are not too stupid to grasp the idea;

It is quite likely that at the end of the last Ice Age glaciers released floods of water as they retreated. One of these is likely the release of Mediteranean waters into the Black Sea region. To those who memorized the oral history of the event it seemed like the whole world flooded, and other similar events occurred around the world as the Ice Age ended.

This would then explain the central truth of the Noah story while many of the details are true only from the perspective of the people at that time.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Atheist Denialists keeping up, so just move on and let them look stupid.

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time?

God still does miracles, but He doesn't do it to prove Himself. He isn't going to step into your little test tube, dude. You would have a better chance of getting Putin to return a message on his cell phone.

Why? Because He is God and you are a little piss ant jerk.

If one accepts the prevailing scientific understanding of the development of the universe, yet also believes in one of the major religions, then presumably a god sat idle for 13.7 billion years – waiting as the stars, galaxies and planets formed. Then it watched with complete and utter indifference as modern Homo Sapians evolved, struggled and died for a further 150,000 years. Finally, a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

God is eternal. He doesn't wait for anything, dumbass, no more than you have to wait to read the last page of a book. If you want, you just turn to the page and read the damned thing.

So it is with God. He can act now or fifty gazillion years ago, it isn't like us who have to wait the flow of time.

Again, you demonstrate your complete ignorance about who and what God is, and yet you think you have learned enough on the subject to decide that He is not real?

roflmao.

You are insane. I especially enjoyed the part where you said, "God still does miracles, but He doesn't do it to prove Himself. He isn't going to step into your little test tube, dude."

What a great bullshit story. The mormons have something similar. Joseph Smith said god talked to him and he gave him some tablets but he said don't show anybody.....And today how many Mormons are there in Utah? That is fucking amazing that many people can buy a story like that or the one you're telling.

 

[sealybobo]

You know what? I'm not the one making any claims. YOU ARE. I say the jury is still out even after all your evidence.

Well, no you're not and that is simply a lie. You keep saying God does not exist, you will say it again and again before you finish this specific rant. So the jury is not out, the trial is over and you've convicted God of not existing. You continue to make claims you can't back up. The specific one we are dealing with at the moment is about how man conjured up God from his imagination, then proceeded to devoutly believe in this imaginary entity for all his existence.

You're making the claim about some god thing and you talk about spiritual energy and karma and you poo poo all the scientific stuff about how the human brain has a wild imagination. Bottom line is, I'm not making any claims. You're claiming there is a god. I don't believe you. If you're not claiming I go to hell if I don't believe, then I guess we're cool, right?

You've admitted you believe in karma. There is no "scientific stuff" to indicate living organisms create imaginary entities to cope with fears or hold to these convictions for all their existence. You're unable to give even one example in nature of persistent irrational behavior. In fact, you can't even give another example in humans of a persistent irrational behavior which has always existed in the species. Even though this completely defies nature, it's your reasoning. Why? Because some atheist blogger said so.

And we're only going to be cool when you stop the lying.



Here again you are making statements you can't back up. You don't know what is real to other people, so why do you pretend you do? You keep claiming God is imaginary when we've already established it's not imagination. God doesn't tell me to convince you or to convert you. I realize you are an impediment to the flow of positive spiritual energy because of your ignorance. I'm just trying to help you 'see the light' if you'll pardon the pun. But hey... good luck with your perverted thoughts, I bet Robin Williams probably thought he didn't need God either.



Because the universe is physical and God isn't.



What happened to "I'm not the one making any claims -- I say the jury is still out..." Sounds like you've reneged on that statement entirely, now you're saying there is no God. Is that what "agnostic atheism" is... like a bipolar disorder where you go back and forth from not being sure if there is a god or not, to proclaiming there is no god?

It's all just what you see.

Interesting statement. What you and I see are material things comprised of atoms. Each atom is comprised of a nucleus and orbiting electrons. Those electrons disappear and reappear, or occupy two places at the same time. We bust open one of those atoms and all sorts of amazing subatomic particles come out. These amazing tiny particles give matter all kinds of various properties. What we see is a creation of something far more advanced than we are, far more powerful than we will ever be, and something far greater than we can even imagine.

No reason to make up a god. The universe is amazing by itself. Worship science. It'll cure you someday hopefully and maybe we can build a space ship and move before this planet is over with. No god's going to help with that just like he doesn't help you when you are dying other than you feel better thinking this isn't the end. Sorry, it is. But be happy you got the time you did. And I feel bad telling you. Like telling a child about santa.

Again, God has saved me from certain death several times. I appreciate science, I worship God. Science can sometimes help to explain how God does some of the amazing things we experience as part of God's creation. Yes, I agree, it's amazing... too amazing for random chance to explain, in my opinion.

But again I think people who believe in god are less advanced/evolved and we will advance faster and be better citizens of this planet when we wise up. If we believe that lie we are dumb. If we need a lie to be good, what does that say about us? I reject that. Maybe we should tell kids that stuff to keep them in line but its not good for adults to believe in fairy tales. Look at what theists are producing. Garbage in garbage out. A stupid ignorant greedy lazy brainwashed society of sheep easily manipulated by the man through the church and media. Gullible.

You're contradicting your own points again. Here, let me refresh you memory:

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

Why do you keep going back and forth with this? Is that also part of this bipolar "atheist agnosticism" you're afflicted with? I think maybe you need some professional help.

I certainly don't believe any organized religion just like you. I just also do not buy into your definition of god. So anyone being fair after listening to you, gismys and me would be to say "we just don't know". Agnostic atheist is the best position.

Why? Because I can't say 100% for sure but so far, based on what you've told me and what organized religions say, I see NO evidence of god. NEXT!

 

[hobelim]

Humans are one example where a living thing has adopted an irrational behavior present in 90% of the species.

Intelligence and rationality are not the same. Whether most of humanity has 'devoutly' believed in something imaginary is far from certain. You and sealy both talk about this subject as though you have some sort of overwhelming evidence one way or the other.

No, humans are the example you have this theory about, you need another example of it happening elsewhere in nature to support the theory it could happen in humans.

In 100% of the archeological findings of human civilization remains, there is evidence of human spiritual belief. I think that is pretty devout. From what we have found from every culture with a recorded history, human spiritual beliefs were predominate. Again... pretty devout.

The evidence that humans have always been devoutly spiritual is overwhelming. Now silly boob's theory on the other hand, has no validity or evidence to support it and it doesn't comport with logic or reason. And you haven't really offered much contribution because you've been too busy finding 'i's to dot and 't's to cross.

First, I realize you were looking for a non-human example, hence the laughter.

As we've gone over before, I think you make poor comparisons between humans and animals and don't take into account the differences in intelligence when you do.

Finding evidence of spirituality in a culture in no way means that most of the people were devout. One can believe without being particularly devout, or even go through the motions of belief without truly believing, etc. Devout belief is a strange goalpost move.

No small point.

As much evidence as there is that people have worshiped one thing or another for thousands of years there is as much evidence that people were maimed tortured or killed for thousands of years if they failed to show proper deference to whatever god happened to be worshiped at the time and it is still happening to this day.

That shows that much of what spirituality has been based on for thousands of years is coercion through threats of real and imaginary violence, pretense, and an instinct to survive.


Nothing very deep or mysterious about that.

 

[sealybobo]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

 

[hobelim]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

When Percival Lowell first set out to observe Mars he made detailed maps of canals as he perceived them through the best instruments available at the time.

Better instruments have since shown Mars in greater detail ending all speculation about canals.

In the same way your brain is an instrument apparently with a clouded lens or is out of focus distracted by your own brains limitations and inability to conceive of anything beyond the the things of the physical realm including time or existence without any need for doing, a necessity for the continuation of life in the physical realm..

The most likely truth is not that there is no God, but that you have yet to develop an instrument capable of perceiving him as he is.

 

[sealybobo]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

When Percival Lowell first set out to observe Mars he made details maps of canals as he perceived them through the best instruments available at the time.

Better instruments have shown Mars in greater detail ending speculations about canals.

In the same way your brain is an instrument apparently with a clouded lens or is out of focus distracted by your own brains limitations and inability to conceive of anything beyond the the things of the physical realm including time or existence without any need for doing, a necessity for the continuation of life in the physical realm..

The most likely truth is not that there is no God, but that you have yet to develop an instrument capable of perceiving him as he is.

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

 

[sealybobo]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

When Percival Lowell first set out to observe Mars he made detailed maps of canals as he perceived them through the best instruments available at the time.

Better instruments have since shown Mars in greater detail ending all speculation about canals.

In the same way your brain is an instrument apparently with a clouded lens or is out of focus distracted by your own brains limitations and inability to conceive of anything beyond the the things of the physical realm including time or existence without any need for doing, a necessity for the continuation of life in the physical realm..

The most likely truth is not that there is no God, but that you have yet to develop an instrument capable of perceiving him as he is.

Did you watch the Nova show last night on Mars? Dude they think there is life on mars and they are sending a special space ship back to do more tests. They found ice but it'd be like how dry ice works here on earth. They want to see if they can find the elements of life in that ice. If they do it will be amazing and prove life is everywhere.

Also during the summer months on Mars methane comes from the hottest part of the planet. That might mean life. Stay tuned.

So while those weren't rivers, you don't get to gloat just yet that Mars never had life.

And of course if we discover life on Mars, that won't shut you theists up.

 

[hobelim]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

When Percival Lowell first set out to observe Mars he made details maps of canals as he perceived them through the best instruments available at the time.

Better instruments have shown Mars in greater detail ending speculations about canals.

In the same way your brain is an instrument apparently with a clouded lens or is out of focus distracted by your own brains limitations and inability to conceive of anything beyond the the things of the physical realm including time or existence without any need for doing, a necessity for the continuation of life in the physical realm..

The most likely truth is not that there is no God, but that you have yet to develop an instrument capable of perceiving him as he is.

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world.

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...


the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

 

[Boss]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

I think you meant 13 billion instead of 13 million. And what you are measuring is a physical parameter known as "time." While time is still a mysterious and perplexing thing to physical science, we do know that time is not linear it is relative. In physics, time is distance, specifically, the distance light travels per second. What enables our sense of time is merely the universe expanding. If the universe stops expanding, time will end.

Now you speak of "The Big Bang" and it's interesting to note, the term "Big Bang" itself was originally a pejorative, like "Star Wars" for Reagan's SDI or "Bush's War" for the Iraq War. Many scientists simply dismissed the theory as nonsense at first, hence the name "Big Bang." It was made fun of and joked about in the upper scientific circles. We're talking about less than 100 years ago. Of course, the fact that Hubble discovered the universe is expanding, lent a huge amount of credibility to the theory of a Big Bang. For about the past 20 years, however, the super-telescope which bears his name has discovered a fascinating new piece to the puzzle. The universe is not only expanding, it is accelerating.

So what does that mean? Well, if you comprehend the dynamics of motion and physics, it could mean there wasn't ever a Big Bang. Physicists such as Stephen Hawking (hardly a dum-dum) would dispute your presentation of "Big Bang" as "proven fact." So this is a THEORY, and one that has been considered a joke, then taken seriously, and now is being questioned once again. You should consider applying your agnosticism to this, it's best to say we don't know at this time.

You ask, what did God do before he created the universe... Well, time didn't yet exist, so it doesn't really matter. Perhaps God was busy creating other universes? Current quantum mechanics have presented string theories which posit there may be many universes. Perhaps a universe exists where spiritual existence is the "norm" and the spiritual entities ponder the possibility of physical existence?

 

[sealybobo]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

You ask, what did God do before he created the universe... Well, time didn't yet exist, so it doesn't really matter. Perhaps God was busy creating other universes? Current quantum mechanics have presented string theories which posit there may be many universes. Perhaps a universe exists where spiritual existence is the "norm" and the spiritual entities ponder the possibility of physical existence?

Yes time did exist before the big bang. That time doesn't exist to us anymore. I believe that is what he was trying to say in that thing I posted. That the time and whatever existed before our big bang is irrelevant and can not ever be tested, but we know that it did exist before the big bang. So if the big bang happened 13 billion years ago, what was happening 26 billion years ago? Maybe the universe was shrinking back into the little ball it was right before the big bang. That's the yo yo theory I just made it up. LOL.

Anyways, best answer is I don't know. Do you?

 

[sealybobo]

When Percival Lowell first set out to observe Mars he made details maps of canals as he perceived them through the best instruments available at the time.

Better instruments have shown Mars in greater detail ending speculations about canals.

In the same way your brain is an instrument apparently with a clouded lens or is out of focus distracted by your own brains limitations and inability to conceive of anything beyond the the things of the physical realm including time or existence without any need for doing, a necessity for the continuation of life in the physical realm..

The most likely truth is not that there is no God, but that you have yet to develop an instrument capable of perceiving him as he is.

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world.

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...

the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

I would think if you asked most people they would say they prefer light to darkness.

Sorry, no cobwebs, no resentment. I don't hate god because my kid died. I don't deny god exists because something bad happened. I simply was enlightened.

It is you who lacks reason. There isn't one argument for god that doesn't come with a fatal flaw. And you don't realize you believe because you are a scared and unevolved human who's been brainwashed to believe in fairy tales. Do you believe in Santa too?

Why are people christians? You act like other religions are selfish and christianity is not. The church wants your money and you want to go to heaven, not to mention you like the social gatherings at church. So it's like a fraternity that offers not only lifetime membership but eternal lifetime membership.

 

[hobelim]

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world..

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...

the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

I would think if you asked most people they would say they prefer light to darkness.

Sorry, no cobwebs, no resentment. I don't hate god because my kid died. I don't deny god exists because something bad happened. I simply was enlightened.

It is you who lacks reason. There isn't one argument for god that doesn't come with a fatal flaw. And you don't realize you believe because you are a scared and unevolved human who's been brainwashed to believe in fairy tales. Do you believe in Santa too?

Why are people christians? You act like other religions are selfish and christianity is not. The church wants your money and you want to go to heaven, not to mention you like the social gatherings at church. So it's like a fraternity that offers not only lifetime membership but eternal lifetime membership.

I am not a Christian and I do not belong to a church or any religion.

You, who claims to have been enlightened, have failed to perceive the truth about me who has been conversing openly with you and other people on a message board about what I do and don't believe, yet you were wrong in your perceptions, accused me of being a Christian, and then spewed resentments and hostility in my direction that you claim to not have.

Is it any wonder you have failed to perceive the truth about God?

 

[Boss]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

You ask, what did God do before he created the universe... Well, time didn't yet exist, so it doesn't really matter. Perhaps God was busy creating other universes? Current quantum mechanics have presented string theories which posit there may be many universes. Perhaps a universe exists where spiritual existence is the "norm" and the spiritual entities ponder the possibility of physical existence?

Yes time did exist before the big bang. That time doesn't exist to us anymore. I believe that is what he was trying to say in that thing I posted. That the time and whatever existed before our big bang is irrelevant and can not ever be tested, but we know that it did exist before the big bang. So if the big bang happened 13 billion years ago, what was happening 26 billion years ago? Maybe the universe was shrinking back into the little ball it was right before the big bang. That's the yo yo theory I just made it up. LOL.

Anyways, best answer is I don't know. Do you?

Well... no, stubborn... Time did not exist before the universe began. Where is the evidence for that? That's right, there isn't any. Time is a dimension of a physical universe. I understand that you and other Atheists want to dismiss whatever happened before the 'supposed' Big Bang, so that you can eliminate any possibility of God or a Creator.

Your "yo yo theory" is also known as the cyclical universe theory, and for 50 years or so, it was considered a plausible and valid theory. However, the evidence that our universe is accelerating in expansion and not slowing, kind of puts that theory to rest. I mean... you DO believe in Newton's Laws of Motion, correct? So if the universe is expanding and accelerating in that expansion, what is going to cause it to suddenly move in the opposite direction? Not gravity, because gravity behaves the same all the time, so if gravity worked as a force on the universe, the expansion would be slowing not accelerating.

So there was no "26 billion years ago" because "years" are a measure of how long it takes our planet to revolve around it's sun. Since our planet and sun did not exist, there were no years. There was no space and there was no time, or at least, you have not proven that to be the case. Until you can present some evidence for these things you believe, all you really have is FAITH.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

You ask, what did God do before he created the universe... Well, time didn't yet exist, so it doesn't really matter. Perhaps God was busy creating other universes? Current quantum mechanics have presented string theories which posit there may be many universes. Perhaps a universe exists where spiritual existence is the "norm" and the spiritual entities ponder the possibility of physical existence?

Yes time did exist before the big bang. That time doesn't exist to us anymore. I believe that is what he was trying to say in that thing I posted. That the time and whatever existed before our big bang is irrelevant and can not ever be tested, but we know that it did exist before the big bang. So if the big bang happened 13 billion years ago, what was happening 26 billion years ago? Maybe the universe was shrinking back into the little ball it was right before the big bang. That's the yo yo theory I just made it up. LOL.

Anyways, best answer is I don't know. Do you?

Well... no, stubborn... Time did not exist before the universe began. Where is the evidence for that? That's right, there isn't any. Time is a dimension of a physical universe. I understand that you and other Atheists want to dismiss whatever happened before the 'supposed' Big Bang, so that you can eliminate any possibility of God or a Creator.

Your "yo yo theory" is also known as the cyclical universe theory, and for 50 years or so, it was considered a plausible and valid theory. However, the evidence that our universe is accelerating in expansion and not slowing, kind of puts that theory to rest. I mean... you DO believe in Newton's Laws of Motion, correct? So if the universe is expanding and accelerating in that expansion, what is going to cause it to suddenly move in the opposite direction? Not gravity, because gravity behaves the same all the time, so if gravity worked as a force on the universe, the expansion would be slowing not accelerating.

So there was no "26 billion years ago" because "years" are a measure of how long it takes our planet to revolve around it's sun. Since our planet and sun did not exist, there were no years. There was no space and there was no time, or at least, you have not proven that to be the case. Until you can present some evidence for these things you believe, all you really have is FAITH.

I personally feel that there is not enough information as of yet, to make an empirical statement about what happened before the big bang.

As for years not existing before the earth was around, there also was no Jesus in 3000 B.C., yet we still use that as a marker, correct?

Evidence and science is on our side - Christians are yet to actually back up anything they believe with actual facts.

In physics, time is distance, specifically, the distance light travels per second. What enables our sense of time is merely the universe expanding. If the universe stops expanding, time will end.

False, entropy ALWAYS increases with time. Thus, time moves always in a forward arrow.

 

[Boss]

I personally feel that there is not enough information as of yet, to make an empirical statement about what happened before the big bang.

As for years not existing before the earth was around, there also was no Jesus in 3000 B.C., yet we still use that as a marker, correct?

Evidence and science is on our side - Christians are yet to actually back up anything they believe with actual facts.

Evidence is on your side? How do you figure when you've presented NO evidence? See, this is what I don't get about you cats... you start off saying "we don't know" which is fine by me, it means we all have faith and nothing else... but then, you suddenly abandon the not knowing for KNOWING that God doesn't exist and there is some kind of evidence for that. The only evidence any of you ever seem to come up with is that we can't prove God does exist.

3,000 BC wasn't called that in 3,000 BC. Yes, it's a marker and nothing more. The same with "years" or any other measure of our perception of this thing called "time."

In physics, time is distance, specifically, the distance light travels per second. What enables our sense of time is merely the universe expanding. If the universe stops expanding, time will end.

False, entropy ALWAYS increases with time. Thus, time moves always in a forward arrow.

Entropy has nothing to do with this. Time is distance, it makes up part of space-time continuum, a fundamental dimension of our physical universe. There is absolutely NO evidence it existed BEFORE a physical universe.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Hubble's observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences. One may say that time had a beginning at the big bang, in the sense that earlier times simply would not be defined. It should be emphasized that this beginning in time is very different from those that had been considered previously. In an unchanging universe a beginning in time is something that has to be imposed by some being outside the universe; there is no physical necessity for a beginning. One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!

So what did god do before the big bang? We know pretty much when the big bang happened. So what happened before the big bang? Did god just sit looking at a blank screen for all eternity before the big bang? It only happened 13 million years ago. Not that long ago for a god.

Answer is, there is no god.

You ask, what did God do before he created the universe... Well, time didn't yet exist, so it doesn't really matter. Perhaps God was busy creating other universes? Current quantum mechanics have presented string theories which posit there may be many universes. Perhaps a universe exists where spiritual existence is the "norm" and the spiritual entities ponder the possibility of physical existence?

Yes time did exist before the big bang.

Bullshit. Time did not exist prior to the Big Bang, you ficktard.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yes time did exist before the big bang. That time doesn't exist to us anymore. I believe that is what he was trying to say in that thing I posted. That the time and whatever existed before our big bang is irrelevant and can not ever be tested, but we know that it did exist before the big bang. So if the big bang happened 13 billion years ago, what was happening 26 billion years ago? Maybe the universe was shrinking back into the little ball it was right before the big bang. That's the yo yo theory I just made it up. LOL.

Anyways, best answer is I don't know. Do you?

Well... no, stubborn... Time did not exist before the universe began. Where is the evidence for that? That's right, there isn't any. Time is a dimension of a physical universe. I understand that you and other Atheists want to dismiss whatever happened before the 'supposed' Big Bang, so that you can eliminate any possibility of God or a Creator.

Your "yo yo theory" is also known as the cyclical universe theory, and for 50 years or so, it was considered a plausible and valid theory. However, the evidence that our universe is accelerating in expansion and not slowing, kind of puts that theory to rest. I mean... you DO believe in Newton's Laws of Motion, correct? So if the universe is expanding and accelerating in that expansion, what is going to cause it to suddenly move in the opposite direction? Not gravity, because gravity behaves the same all the time, so if gravity worked as a force on the universe, the expansion would be slowing not accelerating.

So there was no "26 billion years ago" because "years" are a measure of how long it takes our planet to revolve around it's sun. Since our planet and sun did not exist, there were no years. There was no space and there was no time, or at least, you have not proven that to be the case. Until you can present some evidence for these things you believe, all you really have is FAITH.

I personally feel that there is not enough information as of yet, to make an empirical statement about what happened before the big bang.

As for years not existing before the earth was around, there also was no Jesus in 3000 B.C., yet we still use that as a marker, correct?

Evidence and science is on our side - Christians are yet to actually back up anything they believe with actual facts.
.

WTF? CHRISTIANS INVENTED THE BIG BANG THEORY, dude!

 

[BillyP]

Well... no, stubborn... Time did not exist before the universe began. Where is the evidence for that? That's right, there isn't any. Time is a dimension of a physical universe. I understand that you and other Atheists want to dismiss whatever happened before the 'supposed' Big Bang, so that you can eliminate any possibility of God or a Creator.

Your "yo yo theory" is also known as the cyclical universe theory, and for 50 years or so, it was considered a plausible and valid theory. However, the evidence that our universe is accelerating in expansion and not slowing, kind of puts that theory to rest. I mean... you DO believe in Newton's Laws of Motion, correct? So if the universe is expanding and accelerating in that expansion, what is going to cause it to suddenly move in the opposite direction? Not gravity, because gravity behaves the same all the time, so if gravity worked as a force on the universe, the expansion would be slowing not accelerating.

So there was no "26 billion years ago" because "years" are a measure of how long it takes our planet to revolve around it's sun. Since our planet and sun did not exist, there were no years. There was no space and there was no time, or at least, you have not proven that to be the case. Until you can present some evidence for these things you believe, all you really have is FAITH.

I personally feel that there is not enough information as of yet, to make an empirical statement about what happened before the big bang.

As for years not existing before the earth was around, there also was no Jesus in 3000 B.C., yet we still use that as a marker, correct?

Evidence and science is on our side - Christians are yet to actually back up anything they believe with actual facts.
.

WTF? CHRISTIANS INVENTED THE BIG BANG THEORY, dude!

WHAAAAAAAAT?

 

[thanatos144]

I personally feel that there is not enough information as of yet, to make an empirical statement about what happened before the big bang.

As for years not existing before the earth was around, there also was no Jesus in 3000 B.C., yet we still use that as a marker, correct?

Evidence and science is on our side - Christians are yet to actually back up anything they believe with actual facts.
.

WTF? CHRISTIANS INVENTED THE BIG BANG THEORY, dude!

WHAAAAAAAAT?

And God said let there be light and it was good.