Why hasn't the NRA been blamed for the youtube shootings

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver?

I would imagine whichever one holds the most rounds, but I don't know which that would be.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

No one seems to be able to follow instructions.

This is something I will readily concede. I have problems with that as well.

 

[Foxfyre]

Wonder why? Nothing has changed at the NRA. They still support gun rights. Anyone care to chime in on this? Does this show the media bias on guns and shootings seeing how many of the lib loons were blaming the NRA before the facts came out?

Maybe because she didn't use a semi-automatic rifle. And because her victims survived. Coincidence?

The vast majority of Ar-15 rifles use lesser caliber than 9mm.

 

[Foxfyre]

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver?

I would imagine whichever one holds the most rounds, but I don't know which that would be.

Most Ar-15 rifles sold commercially these days have 10-round capacity magazines.

 

[miketx]

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver?

I would imagine whichever one holds the most rounds, but I don't know which that would be.

Most Ar-15 rifles sold commercially these days have 10-round capacity magazines.

lol! I've never seen an AR for sale that didn't have at least a 20 round mag.

 

[Foxfyre]

Wonder why? Nothing has changed at the NRA. They still support gun rights. Anyone care to chime in on this? Does this show the media bias on guns and shootings seeing how many of the lib loons were blaming the NRA before the facts came out?

Maybe because she didn't use a semi-automatic rifle. And because her victims survived. Coincidence?

What? Lol i would bet 100 bucks the caliber she used is greater than what an AR 15 uses
Its so freakin funny when people attack guns and dont know what the fuck they are talking about..

Youtube shooter used a 9mm Smith and Wesson

(CNN)The woman who opened fire at YouTube headquarters Tuesday practiced shooting at a gun range hours before the attack, police said.
She then took her 9 mm Smith & Wesson handgun to the Silicon Valley campus and shot three people she apparently didn't know, San Bruno Police Chief Ed Barberini said.
All this because Nasim Najafi Aghdam was upset with YouTube's practices and policies.
YouTube shooting: Police say shooter visited gun range before attack - CNN

Yup. Larger caliber than the civilian version of an AR-15. The chances are that pistol also holds more bullets than the civilian version of an AR-15 too.

The weirdest part of this story, however, is that news reports say the family advised the police that she was planning the attack but then were shocked that she did it? Who does that?

(CNN)Family members of the woman who opened fire at YouTube's headquarters this week were stunned by news of the attack in San Bruno, California, but said they warned police ahead of the shooting. . .

. . .But police in Mountain View, California, where Aghdam was found early Tuesday hours before the attack dispute the family's characterization of phone calls with authorities. . .
YouTube shooter's family expresses 'shock,' but says police warned before attack - CNN
​

It's anybody's guess what the whole truth is there.

But it must be frustrating to CNN et al on the left that this shooter:
--was a female. Can't blame testosterone.
--was a minority. Can't blame racism.
--wasn't Muslim. Can't blame Islamic jihadists.
--used a common, everyday handgun that isn't targeted (yet) by the anti-gun and/or more gun restrictions crowd--can't blame the weapon.
--wasn't a Christian of any stripe. Can't blame the Bible-thumpers.
--wasn't a member of or supporter of the NRA. Can't blame the NRA.
--was a vegan, PETA supporter suggesting she most likely was left of center. Can't blame the 'deplorables.'
--seemed to be pretty apolitical so can't even blame President Trump.
--wasn't under any kind of psychological or psychiatric evaluation/treatment and otherwise would not have been denied ability to purchase a firearm. Can't blame too lenient laws on background checks.

Which is why this likely won't be more than a one or two day story because there isn't any there there useful to use by much of anybody.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Doesn't a semi auto pistol and a semi auto rifle have about the same rate of fire? One shot per finger squeeze?

Wow? Really??

If you really believe that an assault rifle is no more deadly than a pistol, you should be lobbying congress to quit wasting money on them for our military. Just give them all pistols, eh?

Jesus H Christ, you people are so fucking clueless about the things you want to ban.

You people? I'm not even advocating for the gun-grabbers. But I am calling bullshit on bullshit.

When gun rights people try to pretend, with a straight face, that there's no such a thing as "more dangerous" or "less dangerous" when it comes to guns - that a pistol is just as dangerous as an assault rifle, that's just dumb. It makes you all look like idiots, and it makes it easier to dismiss otherwise sane defense of the Second Amendment.

What's bullshit is you thinking civilian AR-15's are the same thing that our military uses. Quit talking about things you don't understand.

3 for 3 ... no wonder we have people actually considering repealing the 2nd Amendment.

Yep! People like you are so stupid on the topic that you should not be allowed to vote!

 

[LuckyDuck]

Wonder why? Nothing has changed at the NRA. They still support gun rights. Anyone care to chime in on this? Does this show the media bias on guns and shootings seeing how many of the lib loons were blaming the NRA before the facts came out?

Right now, the neo-Marxist left wants to primarily focus on eliminating rifles with detachable magazines. They will focus on confiscating the other weapons later. Think, Communist China, Cuba, the old Soviet Union, Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. Once the weapons are out of the general populace's hands, they can implement any draconian laws they want and back them up with government guns.

 

[Foxfyre]

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver?

I would imagine whichever one holds the most rounds, but I don't know which that would be.

Most Ar-15 rifles sold commercially these days have 10-round capacity magazines.

lol! I've never seen an AR for sale that didn't have at least a 20 round mag.

Well I may have misspoken. I know the Ar-15 used by the Parkland shooter had a 10-round mag but that might be what Florida requires and all states don't?

 

[2aguy]

Wonder why? Nothing has changed at the NRA. They still support gun rights. Anyone care to chime in on this? Does this show the media bias on guns and shootings seeing how many of the lib loons were blaming the NRA before the facts came out?

Maybe because she didn't use a semi-automatic rifle. And because her victims survived. Coincidence?

The NRA is only responsible when killers use semi auto rifles?

How exactly would having a longer barrel make her shooting more deadly?

Read up on "rate of fire" and "magazine size".

We already have...have you?

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[2aguy]

Maybe because she didn't use a semi-automatic rifle. And because her victims survived. Coincidence?

The NRA is only responsible when killers use semi auto rifles?

How exactly would having a longer barrel make her shooting more deadly?

Read up on "rate of fire" and "magazine size".

Doesn't a semi auto pistol and a semi auto rifle have about the same rate of fire? One shot per finger squeeze?

Wow? Really??

If you really believe that an assault rifle is no more deadly than a pistol, you should be lobbying congress to quit wasting money on them for our military. Just give them all pistols, eh?

Here you go.....

And a rental truck is more deadly than 2 rifles....

The Vegas shooter used 2 rifles firing a reported 1,000 rounds of ammo into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people from a concealed and fortified position, he murdered 58 people..

A muslim terrorist used a rental truck and murdered 86 people in 5 minutes.......

I guess you think rental trucks should be banned too...right?

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[2aguy]

Probably dont want to talk about it because she wasnt a white male. It doesnt have the "umph" to it like a "white male" does.
Its all disingenuous bullshit. Also included in that is how people want to attack it but dont care enough to bother learning about it. All coward statists think is "ban ban ban"

Nah....white males being the shooter is so normal now.....it's as normal as "dog bites man" in this country.

Except for the non white Ford Hood shooter, the two non white San Bernadino shooters, the non white, Dallas black lives matter shooter, the non white, non male youtube shooter, the non white Navy Yard shooter......you mean except for those guys and gals...right? And the worst school shooting was Virginia Tech.....done by an asian guy...

 

[2aguy]

Maybe because she didn't use a semi-automatic rifle. And because her victims survived. Coincidence?

The NRA is only responsible when killers use semi auto rifles?

How exactly would having a longer barrel make her shooting more deadly?

Read up on "rate of fire" and "magazine size".

Rate of fire is the same. Magazine size varies with the weapon.

Are you saying they are equally dangerous?

Yes......you have to use them in the right democrat gun free zone......in close quarters they are equally dangerous.....at long range the rifle has the edge....

 

[2aguy]

Maybe because she didn't use a semi-automatic rifle. And because her victims survived. Coincidence?

The NRA is only responsible when killers use semi auto rifles?

How exactly would having a longer barrel make her shooting more deadly?

Read up on "rate of fire" and "magazine size".

Rate of fire is the same. Magazine size varies with the weapon.

Are you saying they are equally dangerous?

The British mass shooter in Cumbria used a bolt action .22 rifle....killed 12 people.....

 

[2aguy]

How exactly would having a longer barrel make her shooting more deadly?

Read up on "rate of fire" and "magazine size".

Doesn't a semi auto pistol and a semi auto rifle have about the same rate of fire? One shot per finger squeeze?

Wow? Really??

If you really believe that an assault rifle is no more deadly than a pistol, you should be lobbying congress to quit wasting money on them for our military. Just give them all pistols, eh?

Jesus H Christ, you people are so fucking clueless about the things you want to ban.

You people? I'm not even advocating for the gun-grabbers. But I am calling bullshit on bullshit.

When gun rights people try to pretend, with a straight face, that there's no such a thing as "more dangerous" or "less dangerous" when it comes to guns - that a pistol is just as dangerous as an assault rifle, that's just dumb. It makes you all look like idiots, and it makes it easier to dismiss otherwise sane defense of the Second Amendment.

What do you mean by Assault rifle? The AR-15 civilian rifle is no different from any other semi automatic rifle......military weapons have select fire....AR-15 civilian rifles do not.

 

[2aguy]

What do you consider NOT dangerous about firearms?

Equally? If you shoot someone with an AR-15 they can and will be just as dead as if you shot them with a .22 cal revolver. and vice versa.

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver? Before you post your reply, read the words out loud. Because it's going to sound really stupid if you try to say they're the same.

That depends on the range between the shooter and the victims....and other factors......

Listen dumb ass...the Virginia Tech shooter murdered 32 people with 2 pistols..

The Florida shooter killed 17 with his AR-15...do you see how stupid your question is?

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Well I may have misspoken. I know the Ar-15 used by the Parkland shooter had a 10-round mag but that might be what Florida requires and all states don't?

California has a 10 round max for handguns and I thought I heard that one of the concessions the state of Florida got with that new gun legislation they just passed was a restriction of the round size of the magazines.

 

[2aguy]

Well I may have misspoken. I know the Ar-15 used by the Parkland shooter had a 10-round mag but that might be what Florida requires and all states don't?

California has a 10 round max for handguns and I thought I heard that one of the concessions the state of Florida got with that new gun legislation they just passed was a restriction of the round size of the magazines.

If you have time, you should read the whole study on magazine limits and why they don't matter to mass shooters.....it completely deflates any argument for magazine limits....

 

[miketx]

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver?

I would imagine whichever one holds the most rounds, but I don't know which that would be.

Most Ar-15 rifles sold commercially these days have 10-round capacity magazines.

lol! I've never seen an AR for sale that didn't have at least a 20 round mag.

Well I may have misspoken. I know the Ar-15 used by the Parkland shooter had a 10-round mag but that might be what Florida requires and all states don't?

You don't know but you stated it as fact.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, if someone went crazy and started shooting up the local mall - would they kill more people with an AR-15, or a .22 cal revolver?

I would imagine whichever one holds the most rounds, but I don't know which that would be.

Most Ar-15 rifles sold commercially these days have 10-round capacity magazines.

lol! I've never seen an AR for sale that didn't have at least a 20 round mag.

Well I may have misspoken. I know the Ar-15 used by the Parkland shooter had a 10-round mag but that might be what Florida requires and all states don't?

The Parkland shooter had 30 round magazines. He left fully loaded magazines in his bag that he left behind after the shootings.