Why I Am Not A Christian

[CurveLight]

CurveLight wrote:

You were whining and falsely accusing Christians of not directly responding to your questions so I offered a solution where there would be no distractions. It's not about "following me" but solving a problem you were whining about.

Mainstream Christianity is fucked up and is anti-sex, anti-women, and generally saturated in selfishness and bigotry. People who claim otherwise have their eyes glued to their ear drums so they can't see or hear those obvious issues.

I don't consider the POVs of other people to be distractions. I'm having difficulty imagining what could possibly be left of the christian faith you treasured enough to get a degree in theology?

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

Yup. Sky Dancer has been a class act.

She's too soft and has been patronizing. But as long as she didn't call people out then she's revered. That's what people like you enjoy. Coddled fantasies.

 

[CurveLight]

Mainstream Christianity is fucked up and is anti-sex, anti-women, and generally saturated in selfishness and bigotry. People who claim otherwise have their eyes glued to their ear drums so they can't see or hear those obvious issues.

Please expand on those thoughts.

You really are thick headed. When I said I don't give a fuck what you think I was not joking. I don't care how much you follow me around or cross-thread post my posts. You've proven yourself to be a troll in lipstick.

 

[Newby]

CurveLight, this is a message board. I am not going to follow you to another thread under an agreement to ignore what anyone besides the two of us writes. To do so seems elitist and exhibitionistic to me. Why on earth would you and I need a message board to carry on a private conversation?

Explain to me how anyone can claim mainstream American christianity is not both anti-sexual and anti-female when:

1. So many try to interfere in government to advance religious views.

2. They oppose gay marriage, the repeal of DADT, and gay rights in general.

3. They oppose abortion -- but not content with having chosen for themselves, they seek by any means possible to foreclose that option for all American women.

4. They lobby the FDA to keep safer abortificants out of the hands of American women.

5. They oppose teaching sex ed in schools.

Shall I go on? None of these things is identified primarially with the RCC and none of the mainstream christian sects is totally innocent of them.

What about the female babies murdered every day during abortions? I guess that makes you 'anti-female' too, right? You really should be standing up for all of those unborn female babies being killed every day, Mad, what kind of a person are you?

And since when does being against gay marraige make you 'anti-sexual'? That's quite a leap as well, but I'm not surprised that you would make it.

 

[Newby]

Okay, Sky, you win. We're all anti-sexual. Happy now?

This is ridiculous, believe whatever you want to believe, it matters not to me.

I'm not saying that all Christians are anti-sexual. I am saying that, like it or not, Catholics are Christians and that Catholic doctrine as I have shown is clearly anti-sexual. Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the world. Here is another source:

Matthew chapter 5 (NLT)

27 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 So if your eye - even if it is your good eye - causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your hand - even if it is your stronger hand - causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

31 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a letter of divorce.' 32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."


The Bible On Sex And Marriage

You quoted Matthew above. Let me ask you a few questions Sky about what you quoted? Do you think it's okay for a man to treat a woman as sexual object? Is that what you are promoting, or what you're using to define christians as being 'anti-sexual'? So what that verse in the Bible is saying is that men should not view women as sex objects and lust after them, but you think they should? You'd want your spouse or significant other to be looking at someone else like that? That's respectful?

The second verse is about the committment of marriage, something that is sadly lacking in our society today. Your lust wears off, that's okay, just dump them and move onto the next person. That's really treating people respectfully and showing your love and commitment to them, right? And still this has nothing to do with being 'anti-sexual'. I mean if being 'sexual' to you people means going around and fucking whoever you feel like whenever you feel like it, then I'll cop to being anti-sexual any day of the week.

 

[Anguille]

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

We discussed that briefly. For me it qualifies as a religion. Particularly because of it's ideas about reincarnation, though from what I've read, the various Buddhist sects have differing opinions on it.

 

[Anguille]

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

Maybe you don't see it as a religion because it doesn't fit in neatly with the Judeo Christian tradition we have here in the West?

 

[Anguille]

CurveLight wrote:

You were whining and falsely accusing Christians of not directly responding to your questions so I offered a solution where there would be no distractions. It's not about "following me" but solving a problem you were whining about.

Mainstream Christianity is fucked up and is anti-sex, anti-women, and generally saturated in selfishness and bigotry. People who claim otherwise have their eyes glued to their ear drums so they can't see or hear those obvious issues.

I don't consider the POVs of other people to be distractions. I'm having difficulty imagining what could possibly be left of the christian faith you treasured enough to get a degree in theology?

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

Yup. Sky Dancer has been a class act.

She's too soft and has been patronizing. But as long as she didn't call people out then she's revered. That's what people like you enjoy. Coddled fantasies.

Oh, she calls people out. Just not in the juvenile know it all way that you do.

 

[Anguille]

Mainstream Christianity is fucked up and is anti-sex, anti-women, and generally saturated in selfishness and bigotry. People who claim otherwise have their eyes glued to their ear drums so they can't see or hear those obvious issues.

Please expand on those thoughts.

You really are thick headed. When I said I don't give a fuck what you think I was not joking. I don't care how much you follow me around or cross-thread post my posts. You've proven yourself to be a troll in lipstick.

You said that so Newby would lay more pos rep on you, didn't you.

 

[CurveLight]

Please expand on those thoughts.

You really are thick headed. When I said I don't give a fuck what you think I was not joking. I don't care how much you follow me around or cross-thread post my posts. You've proven yourself to be a troll in lipstick.

You said that so Newby would lay more pos rep on you, didn't you.

I'm not a big fan of the "projection" charge but it absolutely applies here. No, unlike you I don't make childish posts to get pos rep and I don't give a fuck what my rep number is. Last I checked it did absolutely nothing.

You're so pathetic you probably have your rep number on the ceiling over your bed so it's the last thing you see at night and the first thing you see in the morning.

Newby isn't even on my "received rep" list you dumbfuck. Keep embarrassing yourself.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Some Catholic couples mistakenly believe that, within marriage, a husband and wife can make use of any kind of sexual acts with one another. On the contrary, certain kinds of sexual acts are intrinsically disordered and always gravely immoral. Such acts cannot be justified in any circumstance, for any reason, regardless of intention, even within marriage.

Certain kinds of sexual acts are intrinsically evil and are therefore always immoral, regardless of circumstances, intention, or purpose.

Examples of intrinsically disordered sexual acts include: masturbation, homosexual acts, any sexual acts with more than two participants, oral sex, anal sex, manual sex, sexual acts involving objects or devices, etc.

These sexual acts can never be justified regardless of circumstances, intention, or purpose. These sexual acts are unnatural because they violate the natural law. The human person was designed by God so that sexual relations would consist in acts of genital-to-genital intercourse, open to life, between one man and one woman. Other kinds of sexual acts are contrary to this intention and purpose of God, which He designed within human nature.
So, for example, a husband cannot deliberately stimulate the genital organs of his wife in order to give her sexual pleasure, for such an action is defined within the Catechism as a type of sexual act which is "intrinsically and gravely disordered." The masturbation of another person is no less immoral than the masturbation of oneself. And regardless of whether this "deliberate stimulation of the genital organs" is done with the hand or the mouth or an object, it remains essentially the same kind of act, one which is intrinsically and gravely disordered, according to the Catechism.

"The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life." (Humanae Vitae, n. 11)

"The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable."
(Pontifical Council for the Family, Vade Mecum for Confessors concerning Some Aspects of The Morality of Conjugal Life, n. 4)
Sexual Sins within Marriage

Holy Crap!!!

So sky, besides just lying there, is there anything you do during sex?

A good Catholic woman according to this cathechism would just lie there and make a baby. No other activity is permitted. Sex is for procreation.

 

[Anguille]

You really are thick headed. When I said I don't give a fuck what you think I was not joking. I don't care how much you follow me around or cross-thread post my posts. You've proven yourself to be a troll in lipstick.

You said that so Newby would lay more pos rep on you, didn't you.

I'm not a big fan of the "projection" charge but it absolutely applies here. No, unlike you I don't make childish posts to get pos rep and I don't give a fuck what my rep number is. Last I checked it did absolutely nothing.

You're so pathetic you probably have your rep number on the ceiling over your bed so it's the last thing you see at night and the first thing you see in the morning.

Newby isn't even on my "received rep" list you dumbfuck. Keep embarrassing yourself.

Newby didn't pos rep you? Awwww... don't be such a crankypants about it. Rep is not all that important, you know.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Have there been no new declarations since 1975?

I don't know, Newby, I'd have to research it. I was no longer a Catholic by 1975. I went to my first Buddhist retreat in 1982.

I'd be interested to know your reasons for leaving the Catholic Church and whether you went straight to Buddhism or if you explored other religions or atheism before settling on Buddhism.

In a way, I just 'fell away' from Catholicism in high school and then college. I just stopped participating in the Church. I didn't have deep thoughts about it at the time.

Then in 1981, I had a spiritual crisis. My father committed suicide. There was nowhere to turn for comfort. I started to seek out other spiritual resources and spent alot of time in a theosophical library. A transitional spiritual resource for me were the teachings of Murdo Macdonald Bayne, who was a Christian minister who studied Buddhism in Tibet. Macdonald Bayne used Christian language to present Buddhist concepts. And that made me see something deeper in the Christian teachings I'd heard all my life. I co-facilated a "Raised Catholic' group for women. The purpose was to either reconcile and go back to the Church or move on. There's alot I could say about what we discussed that were frustrations for all of us women who had been raised in the Catholic Church but suffice it to say I chose to move on. I went to my first Buddhist teaching about six months after my fathers death. It was a teaching on the Four Noble Truths. The truth of suffering, the truth of the causes of suffering, the truth of the cessation of suffering, and the truth of the path that leads to the cessation of suffering.

Then I attended my first ten day silent Buddhist meditation retreat. I went to Buddist retreats of five to ten day lengths every few months or so for a number of years and still didn't identify or call myself a Buddhist. It was a gradual shift.

I did need to come to peace about leaving the Catholic Church. There's a saying that once you're a Catholic you're always a Catholic. When I took my refuge vows in Buddhism the Lama cuts a bit of hair on the crown of your head and I was shaking thinking that God would strike me dead for changing my religion.

In a way, Buddhism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy and way of life and active meditation practice. So, I identify as an atheist because that's how the world sees it and Buddhism is non-theistic. Other times I identify with others who are Christian or who practice another spiritual path. I'm kind of in the middle that way. I feel a kinship with both sides.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Okay, Sky, you win. We're all anti-sexual. Happy now?

This is ridiculous, believe whatever you want to believe, it matters not to me.

I'm not saying that all Christians are anti-sexual. I am saying that, like it or not, Catholics are Christians and that Catholic doctrine as I have shown is clearly anti-sexual. Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the world. Here is another source:

Matthew chapter 5 (NLT)

27 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 So if your eye - even if it is your good eye - causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your hand - even if it is your stronger hand - causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

31 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a letter of divorce.' 32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."


The Bible On Sex And Marriage

You quoted Matthew above. Let me ask you a few questions Sky about what you quoted? Do you think it's okay for a man to treat a woman as sexual object? Is that what you are promoting, or what you're using to define christians as being 'anti-sexual'? So what that verse in the Bible is saying is that men should not view women as sex objects and lust after them, but you think they should? You'd want your spouse or significant other to be looking at someone else like that? That's respectful?

The second verse is about the committment of marriage, something that is sadly lacking in our society today. Your lust wears off, that's okay, just dump them and move onto the next person. That's really treating people respectfully and showing your love and commitment to them, right? And still this has nothing to do with being 'anti-sexual'. I mean if being 'sexual' to you people means going around and fucking whoever you feel like whenever you feel like it, then I'll cop to being anti-sexual any day of the week.

I accept your interpretation of these verses.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

We discussed that briefly. For me it qualifies as a religion. Particularly because of it's ideas about reincarnation, though from what I've read, the various Buddhist sects have differing opinions on it.

You're correct. Various Buddhist traditions see rebirth differently. In my tradition, we talk about six realms of existence and rebirth occurring in one of these realms due to karma. The realms include: animal, human, hell, preta or hungry ghost, and two god realms. It is the human realm that we aspire to be reborn in due to its' unique opportunites for enlightenment.

 

[CurveLight]

What about the female babies murdered every day during abortions? I guess that makes you 'anti-female' too, right? You really should be standing up for all of those unborn female babies being killed every day, Mad, what kind of a person are you?

And since when does being against gay marraige make you 'anti-sexual'? That's quite a leap as well, but I'm not surprised that you would make it.

Maddy was talking about sexual repression which is one of the biggest problems in American Christianity. Evidence? Evangelicals have the highest divorce rates. Why? They are raised to live by the "no sex before marriage" bit so they get married largely to have guilt free sex only to find out the hard way if you don't test drive a life long committment you get fucked with no pleasure.

 

[Newby]

What about the female babies murdered every day during abortions? I guess that makes you 'anti-female' too, right? You really should be standing up for all of those unborn female babies being killed every day, Mad, what kind of a person are you?

And since when does being against gay marraige make you 'anti-sexual'? That's quite a leap as well, but I'm not surprised that you would make it.

Maddy was talking about sexual repression which is one of the biggest problems in American Christianity. Evidence? Evangelicals have the highest divorce rates. Why? They are raised to live by the "no sex before marriage" bit so they get married largely to have guilt free sex only to find out the hard way if you don't test drive a life long committment you get fucked with no pleasure.

What's an 'evangelical' and what percentage of Christians in America today are 'evangelicals'?

And where did you come by your information that they have the highest divorce rates, let alone conclude that it's related to sex?

 

[CurveLight]

You said that so Newby would lay more pos rep on you, didn't you.

I'm not a big fan of the "projection" charge but it absolutely applies here. No, unlike you I don't make childish posts to get pos rep and I don't give a fuck what my rep number is. Last I checked it did absolutely nothing.

You're so pathetic you probably have your rep number on the ceiling over your bed so it's the last thing you see at night and the first thing you see in the morning.

Newby isn't even on my "received rep" list you dumbfuck. Keep embarrassing yourself.

Newby didn't pos rep you? Awwww... don't be such a crankypants about it. Rep is not all that important, you know.

Lol....you're the only one on this thread that's bragged.....literally bragged about getting pos reps for childish bullshit. Fucking troll.

 

[CurveLight]

You said that so Newby would lay more pos rep on you, didn't you.

I'm not a big fan of the "projection" charge but it absolutely applies here. No, unlike you I don't make childish posts to get pos rep and I don't give a fuck what my rep number is. Last I checked it did absolutely nothing.

You're so pathetic you probably have your rep number on the ceiling over your bed so it's the last thing you see at night and the first thing you see in the morning.

Newby isn't even on my "received rep" list you dumbfuck. Keep embarrassing yourself.

Newby didn't pos rep you? Awwww... don't be such a crankypants about it. Rep is not all that important, you know.

What about the female babies murdered every day during abortions? I guess that makes you 'anti-female' too, right? You really should be standing up for all of those unborn female babies being killed every day, Mad, what kind of a person are you?

And since when does being against gay marraige make you 'anti-sexual'? That's quite a leap as well, but I'm not surprised that you would make it.

Maddy was talking about sexual repression which is one of the biggest problems in American Christianity. Evidence? Evangelicals have the highest divorce rates. Why? They are raised to live by the "no sex before marriage" bit so they get married largely to have guilt free sex only to find out the hard way if you don't test drive a life long committment you get fucked with no pleasure.

What's an 'evangelical' and what percentage of Christians in America today are 'evangelicals'?

And where did you come by your information that they have the highest divorce rates, let alone conclude that it's related to sex?

I just invent everything as I go along.

 

[Newby]

I'm not a big fan of the "projection" charge but it absolutely applies here. No, unlike you I don't make childish posts to get pos rep and I don't give a fuck what my rep number is. Last I checked it did absolutely nothing.

You're so pathetic you probably have your rep number on the ceiling over your bed so it's the last thing you see at night and the first thing you see in the morning.

Newby isn't even on my "received rep" list you dumbfuck. Keep embarrassing yourself.

Newby didn't pos rep you? Awwww... don't be such a crankypants about it. Rep is not all that important, you know.

Maddy was talking about sexual repression which is one of the biggest problems in American Christianity. Evidence? Evangelicals have the highest divorce rates. Why? They are raised to live by the "no sex before marriage" bit so they get married largely to have guilt free sex only to find out the hard way if you don't test drive a life long committment you get fucked with no pleasure.

What's an 'evangelical' and what percentage of Christians in America today are 'evangelicals'?

And where did you come by your information that they have the highest divorce rates, let alone conclude that it's related to sex?

I just invent everything as I go along.

It was a serious question tho, I wanted to know what you defined as an 'evangelical', and if there is really statistical information about their divorce rates.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Newby didn't pos rep you? Awwww... don't be such a crankypants about it. Rep is not all that important, you know.

What's an 'evangelical' and what percentage of Christians in America today are 'evangelicals'?

And where did you come by your information that they have the highest divorce rates, let alone conclude that it's related to sex?

I just invent everything as I go along.

It was a serious question tho, I wanted to know what you defined as an 'evangelical', and if there is really statistical information about their divorce rates.

Here's some statitistical information:
Evangelicals: Why Do We Have the Highest Divorce Rate? - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

and here are some definitions of evangelical:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...l&sa=X&ei=f9sYTNilKZWgnQfVqrS3Cg&ved=0CBUQkAE