Why I Am Not A Christian

[Newby]

I just invent everything as I go along.

It was a serious question tho, I wanted to know what you defined as an 'evangelical', and if there is really statistical information about their divorce rates.

Here's some statitistical information:
Evangelicals: Why Do We Have the Highest Divorce Rate? - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

and here are some definitions of evangelical:
define:evangelical - Google Search

I was asking for his definition of the word, and I know how to use Google. Thanks.

The Barna poll was taken in 1999, and there is no longer any information about how the poll was conducted or how the data was collected. This is from the artible you linked.

Several reasons were suggested by the Barna Poll, including:

1. Christians are generally younger when they marry the first time.

2. Christians are less likely to have pre-marital counseling than non-Christians.

3. Christians tend to view their faith as protecting their marriage from divorce.

4. Christians are more likely to be ignorant about the problems that can develop within a marriage.



The article title said 'evangelicals', the article itself says 'christians', I guess they're assumed to be one and the same. Number 2 I would say is highly inaccurate, if you attend church regularly and are planning a marraige, most churches require pre-marital counseling. Where do non-Chritians get their marriage counseling at, the justice of the peace office? What would christians viewing their faith as protecting their marriage have anything to do with the divorce rate? They get married without thinking about it? Is that what is supposed to be implied here? And that last one, number 4, is truely laughable. Where the hell do they come up with that one? Why are christians more likely to be 'ignorant' about problems that can develop? We're just all uneducated idiots? The bias in this article is farily obvious.


Also not mentioned or taken into consideration, if the data is even accurate to begin with, is the fact that Christians are more likely to get married than to live together to begin with. How many more Christians are married overall than non-christians? I would guess quite a few more, therefore the divorce rate is going to potentially trend higher as well since more of them marry to begin with. But, the biggest point of note is that there is nothing about sex being the cause of the divorce rate mentioned in any of the groups, christian or non-christian.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It was a serious question tho, I wanted to know what you defined as an 'evangelical', and if there is really statistical information about their divorce rates.

Here's some statitistical information:
Evangelicals: Why Do We Have the Highest Divorce Rate? - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

and here are some definitions of evangelical:
define:evangelical - Google Search

I was asking for his definition of the word, and I know how to use Google. Thanks.

Sorry. I can't win for annoying you.

 

[xsited1]

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

Maybe you don't see it as a religion because it doesn't fit in neatly with the Judeo Christian tradition we have here in the West?

You couldn't be more wrong. I have studied Eastern religions since I was very young. I was a follower of Buddhism for a number of years. Siddhartha Gautama would be outraged at the way people have created a religion out of his teachings. However, that's just human nature and everything identified as a religion suffers from this.

 

[Newby]

Here's some statitistical information:
Evangelicals: Why Do We Have the Highest Divorce Rate? - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

and here are some definitions of evangelical:
define:evangelical - Google Search

I was asking for his definition of the word, and I know how to use Google. Thanks.

Sorry. I can't win for annoying you.

I addressed your article, interesting reading to be sure.

 

[CurveLight]

I was asking for his definition of the word, and I know how to use Google. Thanks.

Sorry. I can't win for annoying you.

I addressed your article, interesting reading to be sure.

Surveys on divorce are hard for numerous reasons but it's clear Christians do not have a lower divorce rate than other groups.

 

[Madeline]

CurveLight, this is a message board. I am not going to follow you to another thread under an agreement to ignore what anyone besides the two of us writes. To do so seems elitist and exhibitionistic to me. Why on earth would you and I need a message board to carry on a private conversation?

Explain to me how anyone can claim mainstream American christianity is not both anti-sexual and anti-female when:

1. So many try to interfere in government to advance religious views.

2. They oppose gay marriage, the repeal of DADT, and gay rights in general.

3. They oppose abortion -- but not content with having chosen for themselves, they seek by any means possible to foreclose that option for all American women.

4. They lobby the FDA to keep safer abortificants out of the hands of American women.

5. They oppose teaching sex ed in schools.

Shall I go on? None of these things is identified primarially with the RCC and none of the mainstream christian sects is totally innocent of them.

What about the female babies murdered every day during abortions? I guess that makes you 'anti-female' too, right? You really should be standing up for all of those unborn female babies being killed every day, Mad, what kind of a person are you?

And since when does being against gay marraige make you 'anti-sexual'? That's quite a leap as well, but I'm not surprised that you would make it.

All pregnancies occur to females, and IMO, all females deserve the right to control their own reproduction and lives. This has been the law of the land here in the US since 1973 but decades of christian officious intermeddling has attempted to frustrate the rights of others who don't see things their way. SOME christians have apparently led such orderly, God-like lives they have the time and energy to devote to managing the lives of others (insert symbol for sarcasm here). The problem, Newby, is you guys cannot manage your boundaries and remain content to ruin the lives of women you actually influence -- you reach out by means so devious and heinious at times, I wonder how any of you can bear it. All in the name of punishing (mostly poor) females for having sex.

If you can't see the way in which opposing gay marriage makes a person anti-sexual, you are denying the sexuality of GLBT folks -- and again, it is not your place to decide how anyone else should live. It's bad enough you hold such repugnant attitudes, but to make donations to PACs to do up tv and print ads, lying about GLBT people so as to defeat their rights -- that exceeds all my ability to tolerate your evil behavior.

It seems to me most christians have a playbook for sex that we must all follow, or they will punish us -- or try to. If THAT isn't anti-sexual, I don't know what would be. And this from the same people confused about whether clergy sex abuse is a real injury. If I ponder this too long, the hypocrisy may make me ill.

 

[Madeline]

I would like to say, that at this point, many have expounded on how righteous their individual religious leanings might be. But only Sky has actually demonstrated, by her honorable behavior, how her religion might just be a truly civilized and truth seeking religion worthy of respect.

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

We discussed that briefly. For me it qualifies as a religion. Particularly because of it's ideas about reincarnation, though from what I've read, the various Buddhist sects have differing opinions on it.

I don't know enough about Buddism to judge it, and I very much doubt anyone else besides Sky Dancer does either. What difference does it make how the rest of us would classify it? It matters only what value it has for its followers....and I would guess, it means quite a lot.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

We discussed that briefly. For me it qualifies as a religion. Particularly because of it's ideas about reincarnation, though from what I've read, the various Buddhist sects have differing opinions on it.

I don't know enough about Buddism to judge it, and I very much doubt anyone else besides Sky Dancer does either. What difference does it make how the rest of us would classify it? It matters only what value it has for its followers....and I would guess, it means quite a lot.

It occurs to me that one could say the same thing about Christianity. Allow me to paraphrase your words. That it doesn't make much difference how non-christians classify Christianity. It only matters what value it has for its followers, and I would guess it means quite a lot.

It also matters to you what Christianity is or isn't because of your personal spiritual choice. I would like to ask you what you think you need to be at peace with Christianity not being your choice? What would you like to call yourself other than a non-christian?

I once participated in a 'Raised Catholic support group' and found it helpful.

 

[Madeline]

I need christians to stop shoving their errant beliefs down my throat. I need to be able to elect athetists and agnostics to any political office, if they are qualified. I need for my younger women friends to have access to any safe form of birth control and abortificant they choose, without interference from christians. I need them to admit that others, who do not share their beliefs, are equally valuable in the US and deserving of respect.

Oh, and I need the RCC to once and for all clean up its act, address the needs of sex abuse victims and get out of the forced conversion biz.

In short, confine your spirituality to yourself and your family. Leave me and my community alone. "Live and let live" only works if the feeling is mutual; as long as they are so terribly aggressive, they surely must expect to get pushed back.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I need christians to stop shoving their errant beliefs down my throat. I need to be able to elect athetists and agnostics to any political office, if they are qualified. I need for my younger women friends to have access to any safe form of birth control and abortificant they choose, without interference from christians. I need them to admit that others, who do not share their beliefs, are equally valuable in the US and deserving of respect.

Oh, and I need the RCC to once and for all clean up its act, address the needs of sex abuse victims and get out of the forced conversion biz.

In short, confine your spirituality to yourself and your family. Leave me and my community alone. "Live and let live" only works if the feeling is mutual; as long as they are so terribly aggressive, they surely must expect to get pushed back.

Ok. That's quite a few requirements for peace.

 

[Madeline]

Ya I know. I don't have your knack for seeming peaceful, and I'm hot. There's no a/c in my office....makes me crabbier than usual.

Basically, I can hold christians in no higher regard than they hold me. Seems you aren't having this issue, Sky Dancer. Wanna tell me how you manage that?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Ya I know. I don't have your knack for seeming peaceful, and I'm hot. There's no a/c in my office....makes me crabbier than usual.

Basically, I can hold christians in no higher regard than they hold me. Seems you aren't having this issue, Sky Dancer. Wanna tell me how you manage that?

I spent quite alot of time examining the effect my childhood religious conditioning had on me before I came to peace with it. Mine was mixed up with dysfunctional family patterns. I spent years on it in fact. I also participated in a support group for women who were raised Catholic. I wanted to be at peace so I sought out ways to do that.

My meditation practice helps me too. I learn how to stand beside and offer kindness to all my feelings, including the ones that aren't peaceful.

I don't focus as much on the Christians who reject me or who stand in opposition to my politics. I focus on finding good heart in people of all faiths.

If you look for that, you find it everywhere.

 

[Anguille]

I thought she followed the Buddha. It's not technically a religion.

Maybe you don't see it as a religion because it doesn't fit in neatly with the Judeo Christian tradition we have here in the West?

You couldn't be more wrong. I have studied Eastern religions since I was very young. I was a follower of Buddhism for a number of years. Siddhartha Gautama would be outraged at the way people have created a religion out of his teachings. However, that's just human nature and everything identified as a religion suffers from this.

Just offering my thoughts, since you asked.
Buddhism, as Sky describes it having rituals, does fit my definition of religion. You may be right about how the original teachings of Buddha have been altered but are you sure he would be "outraged"? Was he a control freak?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Maybe you don't see it as a religion because it doesn't fit in neatly with the Judeo Christian tradition we have here in the West?

You couldn't be more wrong. I have studied Eastern religions since I was very young. I was a follower of Buddhism for a number of years. Siddhartha Gautama would be outraged at the way people have created a religion out of his teachings. However, that's just human nature and everything identified as a religion suffers from this.

Just offering my thoughts, since you asked.
Buddhism, as Sky describes it having rituals, does fit my definition of religion. You may be right about how the original teachings of Buddha have been altered but are you sure he would be "outraged"? Was he a control freak?

The Buddha is awake. That's what Buddha means. In Tibetan, Buddha is called sang gye which means to clear away and to unfold. What is cleared away are anger, attachment, ignorance, jealousy and pride.

I doubt the Buddha would be outraged. The Buddha taught 84,000 methods of awakening. That leaves plenty of room for variety in the Buddhist path.

 

[Madeline]

Ya I know. I don't have your knack for seeming peaceful, and I'm hot. There's no a/c in my office....makes me crabbier than usual.

Basically, I can hold christians in no higher regard than they hold me. Seems you aren't having this issue, Sky Dancer. Wanna tell me how you manage that?

I spent quite alot of time examining the effect my childhood religious conditioning had on me before I came to peace with it. Mine was mixed up with dysfunctional family patterns. I spent years on it in fact. I also participated in a support group for women who were raised Catholic. I wanted to be at peace so I sought out ways to do that.

My meditation practice helps me too. I learn how to stand beside and offer kindness to all my feelings, including the ones that aren't peaceful.

I don't focus as much on the Christians who reject me or who stand in opposition to my politics. I focus on finding good heart in people of all faiths.

If you look for that, you find it everywhere.

I have had to find my own way to peace, Sky Dancer. I had a (perhaps) greater need than most to resolve the question of Justice. While it is not my place or need to teach other adults how to behave, I am not adverse to holding up a mirror so they at least have a chance to see their conduct from someone else's POV.

As I have said, I don't seem to have your knack for writing in a way that reads peaceful to others -- and I'll admit, sometimes the behavior of some people in the name of christianity makes me so mad I'd like to smack the snot out of them. I have a noisy, cantankerous personality (which has been a wonderful blessing much more often than a curse) and I will doubtless be a pain in the ass till I die.

Do you agitate for Justice, Sky Dancer? I'm wondering how you reconcile the worldly acts of agitation with the meditative practices of Buddism.

 

[Newby]

CurveLight, this is a message board. I am not going to follow you to another thread under an agreement to ignore what anyone besides the two of us writes. To do so seems elitist and exhibitionistic to me. Why on earth would you and I need a message board to carry on a private conversation?

Explain to me how anyone can claim mainstream American christianity is not both anti-sexual and anti-female when:

1. So many try to interfere in government to advance religious views.

2. They oppose gay marriage, the repeal of DADT, and gay rights in general.

3. They oppose abortion -- but not content with having chosen for themselves, they seek by any means possible to foreclose that option for all American women.

4. They lobby the FDA to keep safer abortificants out of the hands of American women.

5. They oppose teaching sex ed in schools.

Shall I go on? None of these things is identified primarially with the RCC and none of the mainstream christian sects is totally innocent of them.

What about the female babies murdered every day during abortions? I guess that makes you 'anti-female' too, right? You really should be standing up for all of those unborn female babies being killed every day, Mad, what kind of a person are you?

And since when does being against gay marraige make you 'anti-sexual'? That's quite a leap as well, but I'm not surprised that you would make it.

All pregnancies occur to females, and IMO, all females deserve the right to control their own reproduction and lives. This has been the law of the land here in the US since 1973 but decades of christian officious intermeddling has attempted to frustrate the rights of others who don't see things their way. SOME christians have apparently led such orderly, God-like lives they have the time and energy to devote to managing the lives of others (insert symbol for sarcasm here). The problem, Newby, is you guys cannot manage your boundaries and remain content to ruin the lives of women you actually influence -- you reach out by means so devious and heinious at times, I wonder how any of you can bear it. All in the name of punishing (mostly poor) females for having sex.

If you can't see the way in which opposing gay marriage makes a person anti-sexual, you are denying the sexuality of GLBT folks -- and again, it is not your place to decide how anyone else should live. It's bad enough you hold such repugnant attitudes, but to make donations to PACs to do up tv and print ads, lying about GLBT people so as to defeat their rights -- that exceeds all my ability to tolerate your evil behavior.

It seems to me most christians have a playbook for sex that we must all follow, or they will punish us -- or try to. If THAT isn't anti-sexual, I don't know what would be. And this from the same people confused about whether clergy sex abuse is a real injury. If I ponder this too long, the hypocrisy may make me ill.

You're a fucking lunatic, Maddie.

 

[Madeline]

Another substantive reply from Newby. What a surprise. When pressed to address any of the issues, all you can do is fling insults and run?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Ya I know. I don't have your knack for seeming peaceful, and I'm hot. There's no a/c in my office....makes me crabbier than usual.

Basically, I can hold christians in no higher regard than they hold me. Seems you aren't having this issue, Sky Dancer. Wanna tell me how you manage that?

I spent quite alot of time examining the effect my childhood religious conditioning had on me before I came to peace with it. Mine was mixed up with dysfunctional family patterns. I spent years on it in fact. I also participated in a support group for women who were raised Catholic. I wanted to be at peace so I sought out ways to do that.

My meditation practice helps me too. I learn how to stand beside and offer kindness to all my feelings, including the ones that aren't peaceful.

I don't focus as much on the Christians who reject me or who stand in opposition to my politics. I focus on finding good heart in people of all faiths.

If you look for that, you find it everywhere.

I have had to find my own way to peace, Sky Dancer. I had a (perhaps) greater need than most to resolve the question of Justice. While it is not my place or need to teach other adults how to behave, I am not adverse to holding up a mirror so they at least have a chance to see their conduct from someone else's POV.

As I have said, I don't seem to have your knack for writing in a way that reads peaceful to others -- and I'll admit, sometimes the behavior of some people in the name of christianity makes me so mad I'd like to smack the snot out of them. I have a noisy, cantankerous personality (which has been a wonderful blessing much more often than a curse) and I will doubtless be a pain in the ass till I die.

Do you agitate for Justice, Sky Dancer? I'm wondering how you reconcile the worldly acts of agitation with the meditative practices of Buddism.

I've been influenced by the work of the Buddhist Peace Fellowship which brings social justice and social action together with Buddhist principles. Buddhist Peace Fellowship

Truth is, I 'lose it' (my patience) all the time. Some posters here are great teachers that way. I have to take a step back and try another approach and remember that my main goal is to cultivate peace.

It helps to have a sense of humor. Sometimes it's one step forward and three steps backward so that the times when it's only one and half steps backward it's progress!

 

[Newby]

Another substantive reply from Newby. What a surprise. When pressed to address any of the issues, all you can do is fling insults and run?

I've addressed all of your stupid, assinine, pompous, condescending 'issues'. When I do all you do is run away and then come back a day later and continue spewing the same shit that started this thread without batting an eye. It's become pretty amusing as a matter of fact, which is why I got a good laugh out of the last post. When you start calling people 'evil' along with all of the other crap you just posted, you're far worse than any self agrandizing, judgmental 'christian' I've ever come across. What's funny is the irony of that apparently goes right over your head. Have a nice afternoon, Mad. P.S. You might want to take Sky's advice and seek help.

 

[Madeline]

You do make it sound inviting, Sky Dancer.