Why I Am Not A Christian

[Sky Dancer]

You do make it sound inviting, Sky Dancer.

Meditation works wonders and you don't have to be a Buddhist to do it.

 

[Madeline]

So do you ever agitate, Sky Dancer?

 

[Madeline]

Another substantive reply from Newby. What a surprise. When pressed to address any of the issues, all you can do is fling insults and run?

I've addressed all of your stupid, assinine, pompous, condescending 'issues'. When I do all you do is run away and then come back a day later and continue spewing the same shit that started this thread without batting an eye. It's become pretty amusing as a matter of fact, which is why I got a good laugh out of the last post. When you start calling people 'evil' along with all of the other crap you just posted, you're far worse than any self agrandizing, judgmental 'christian' I've ever come across. What's funny is the irony of that apparently goes right over your head. Have a nice afternoon, Mad. P.S. You might want to take Sky's advice and seek help.

Some behavior is evil, Newby. There aren't many people I'd discard altogether as evil. I know it's hard to read the posts with which you disagree carefully, but if you look, you'll see the error.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Another substantive reply from Newby. What a surprise. When pressed to address any of the issues, all you can do is fling insults and run?

I've addressed all of your stupid, assinine, pompous, condescending 'issues'. When I do all you do is run away and then come back a day later and continue spewing the same shit that started this thread without batting an eye. It's become pretty amusing as a matter of fact, which is why I got a good laugh out of the last post. When you start calling people 'evil' along with all of the other crap you just posted, you're far worse than any self agrandizing, judgmental 'christian' I've ever come across. What's funny is the irony of that apparently goes right over your head. Have a nice afternoon, Mad. P.S. You might want to take Sky's advice and seek help.

Some behavior is evil, Newby. There aren't many people I'd discard altogether as evil. I know it's hard to read the posts with which you disagree carefully, but if you look, you'll see the error.

Evil is a Judeo- Christian concept. We don't use that term in Buddhism. What people do you consider evil Madeline?

I'm reminded of a book by M Scott Peck called People of the Lie; The hope for healing human evil. What I remember that impressed me was his discussion of 'ordinary evil' especially the evil done by one human being against another--the kind that crushes the spirit. That happens to some people in religion.

 

[Madeline]

I'd condemn all the mass murderers....Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Some of the criminals. I love true crime and have read extensively about Ted Bundy (evil), Jeffrey Dalhmer (not evil -- crazy), etc.

A few people I have met in real life have given me a terrific "evil" vibe that has scared me badly. I haven't got a conclusion about them, but nothing could make me approach them either.

While it is rare, I do think a person can commit such heinous acts as to extinguish his humanity and become something akin to a black hole. Pondering such things is a philosophical exercise; the vast majority of us will never encounter such a person.

We would do better to concentrate on the evil in real life. Our own, so it can be corrected, and the evil others do, so it can be resisted.

 

[Newby]

Another substantive reply from Newby. What a surprise. When pressed to address any of the issues, all you can do is fling insults and run?

I've addressed all of your stupid, assinine, pompous, condescending 'issues'. When I do all you do is run away and then come back a day later and continue spewing the same shit that started this thread without batting an eye. It's become pretty amusing as a matter of fact, which is why I got a good laugh out of the last post. When you start calling people 'evil' along with all of the other crap you just posted, you're far worse than any self agrandizing, judgmental 'christian' I've ever come across. What's funny is the irony of that apparently goes right over your head. Have a nice afternoon, Mad. P.S. You might want to take Sky's advice and seek help.

Some behavior is evil, Newby. There aren't many people I'd discard altogether as evil. I know it's hard to read the posts with which you disagree carefully, but if you look, you'll see the error.

Your definition of 'evil' must then be very warped Mad. I would say the act of killing your own child is evil. You defend it. In my opinion, you're the one with evil behavior. See how that works? Probably not.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'd condemn all the mass murderers....Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Some of the criminals. I love true crime and have read extensively about Ted Bundy (evil), Jeffrey Dalhmer (not evil -- crazy), etc.

A few people I have met in real life have given me a terrific "evil" vibe that has scared me badly. I haven't got a conclusion about them, but nothing could make me approach them either.

While it is rare, I do think a person can commit such heinous acts as to extinguish his humanity and become something akin to a black hole. Pondering such things is a philosophical exercise; the vast majority of us will never encounter such a person.

We would do better to concentrate on the evil in real life. Our own, so it can be corrected, and the evil others do, so it can be resisted.

There is such a thing in Buddhism as the Five Heinous Acts. They always result in hell realm karma. But no one is forever condemned. The karma can always be purified. I think the evil term gets used a bit too fast and loosely. Just my opinion since we seem to be tossing that one around at each other on this thread.

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

CurveLight wrote:

You were whining and falsely accusing Christians of not directly responding to your questions so I offered a solution where there would be no distractions. It's not about "following me" but solving a problem you were whining about.

Mainstream Christianity is fucked up and is anti-sex, anti-women, and generally saturated in selfishness and bigotry. People who claim otherwise have their eyes glued to their ear drums so they can't see or hear those obvious issues.

I don't consider the POVs of other people to be distractions. I'm having difficulty imagining what could possibly be left of the christian faith you treasured enough to get a degree in theology?

I didn't say I studied theology. I said biblical studies. It was from a historical, anthropological, and social perspective. The heart of ancient Christianity is very much like buddhism and is nothing like we see in the mainstream today. By studying the biblical texts from a historical pov it provided the benefit of context. The biggest problem with American Christians today is they learn the bible through modern American eyes instead of using fundamentals like an Oral Performance model and most are completely fucking clueless about the politics between Rome, the different Jewish sects, and different pagan groups.

How do you equate Buddhism with Christianity?
In the 1st Century AD (that's anytime after 4 BC to, but not after 100 AD) the founders of Christianity were the actual followers of Jesus and were taught by Him. The disciples died for what they believe in and suffered horrible deaths. Some were beheaded, others crucified (one upside down) some were flayed alive ( their skin was peeled off of their bodies. One was stoned to death, Paul and Silas were imprisoned for simply being a witness.
After the 1st Century the Roman persecuted the early Church (see Foxe's Book of Martyrs), in fact; there were seven primitive persecutions in order to stomp out Christianity and as you can see what they did vastly differs to what Christians go through today.
They were fed to the lions, Nero used them as torches in his garden, some were run through with spears from pagen priests, drowned, ect.ect.ect.
Can any of you stick to what you believe even under the treat of death. In a recap, the only disciple to not suffer the death of a martyr was John the writer of Revelation. All the others died for what they believed.

 

[Madeline]

If I shared your POV, Newby, then I would agree. See how that works? We have a society that allows people to disagree, to have different values and beliefs, and to conduct their lives as they see fit.

Why is that so unappealing? Why try to force those who disagree with you to behave in accordance with your values...especially by such underhanded means as phoney abortion clinics, etc.?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'd condemn all the mass murderers....Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Some of the criminals. I love true crime and have read extensively about Ted Bundy (evil), Jeffrey Dalhmer (not evil -- crazy), etc.

A few people I have met in real life have given me a terrific "evil" vibe that has scared me badly. I haven't got a conclusion about them, but nothing could make me approach them either.

While it is rare, I do think a person can commit such heinous acts as to extinguish his humanity and become something akin to a black hole. Pondering such things is a philosophical exercise; the vast majority of us will never encounter such a person.

We would do better to concentrate on the evil in real life. Our own, so it can be corrected, and the evil others do, so it can be resisted.

That reminds me of the pith instructions that the Buddha gave: "Do not non-virtue absolutely. Practice virtue thorougly. Completely tame your own mind."

 

[Newby]

If I shared your POV, Newby, then I would agree. See how that works? We have a society that allows people to disagree, to have different values and beliefs, and to conduct their lives as they see fit.

Why is that so unappealing? Why try to force those who disagree with you to behave in accordance with your values...especially by such underhanded means as phoney abortion clinics, etc.?

So murder is a part of your values and beliefs?

 

[Madeline]

I'd condemn all the mass murderers....Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Some of the criminals. I love true crime and have read extensively about Ted Bundy (evil), Jeffrey Dalhmer (not evil -- crazy), etc.

A few people I have met in real life have given me a terrific "evil" vibe that has scared me badly. I haven't got a conclusion about them, but nothing could make me approach them either.

While it is rare, I do think a person can commit such heinous acts as to extinguish his humanity and become something akin to a black hole. Pondering such things is a philosophical exercise; the vast majority of us will never encounter such a person.

We would do better to concentrate on the evil in real life. Our own, so it can be corrected, and the evil others do, so it can be resisted.

There is such a thing in Buddhism as the Five Heinous Acts. They always result in hell realm karma. But no one is forever condemned. The karma can always be purified. I think the evil term gets used a bit too fast and loosely. Just my opinion since we seem to be tossing that one around at each other on this thread.

I'm not being casual, Sky Dancer. I'm sorry if that seems to be the case. I have struggled with this a great deal, and perhaps my conclusion only speaks to my limits as a person....but I do think that a person can extinguish his own humanity through the evil he does. But then, since I don't believe in an after-life, the conclusions I drew seem more or less irrelevant, so why it poses such a dilemma for me I dunno.

I guess it's partially the idea that someone who has led a life of destruction and cruelty could get the Last Rites and be forgiven. Yes, I know that is a Catholic ritual, but as I understand it most christian sects have a similar belief. If you can escape the consequences of your evil merely with some sort of "whoopsie", the notion of Justice seems to me to have no value at all.

 

[JoLouis]

If I shared your POV, Newby, then I would agree. See how that works? We have a society that allows people to disagree, to have different values and beliefs, and to conduct their lives as they see fit.

Why is that so unappealing? Why try to force those who disagree with you to behave in accordance with your values...especially by such underhanded means as phoney abortion clinics, etc.?

So murder is a part of your values and beliefs?

It's part of the values and beliefs of ALL Americans. Murder, war and the NRA, it's the American Way!

 

[Madeline]

If I shared your POV, Newby, then I would agree. See how that works? We have a society that allows people to disagree, to have different values and beliefs, and to conduct their lives as they see fit.

Why is that so unappealing? Why try to force those who disagree with you to behave in accordance with your values...especially by such underhanded means as phoney abortion clinics, etc.?

So murder is a part of your values and beliefs?

Newby, abortion is and has been an American practice during at least all of the 20th and 21st centuries. It will not ever stop. All that can ever be done is forcing it back underground again and if that were to happen, it is the poor females who will suffer and die.

Seems to me that anyone who finds abortion repugnant could find 1,001 sex-positive, non-judgmental ways to curtail its use that do not denigrate women or impair their rights. Punishing women who choose to use the procedures and drugs to halt a pregnancy they do not want is wrong, IMO. That other person's choices are protected by the constitution that we all live under, and to attempt to interfere with their free exercise shows a terrific lack of respect and compassion.

IMO.

 

[Newby]

If I shared your POV, Newby, then I would agree. See how that works? We have a society that allows people to disagree, to have different values and beliefs, and to conduct their lives as they see fit.

Why is that so unappealing? Why try to force those who disagree with you to behave in accordance with your values...especially by such underhanded means as phoney abortion clinics, etc.?

So murder is a part of your values and beliefs?

Newby, abortion is and has been an American practice during at least all of the 20th and 21st centuries. It will not ever stop. All that can ever be done is forcing it back underground again and if that were to happen, it is the poor females who will suffer and die.

Seems to me that anyone who finds abortion repugnant could find 1,001 sex-positive, non-judgmental ways to curtail its use that do not denigrate women or impair their rights. Punishing women who choose to use the procedures and drugs to halt a pregnancy they do not want is wrong, IMO. That other person's choices are protected by the constitution that we all live under, and to attempt to interfere with their free exercise shows a terrific lack of respect and compassion.

IMO.

It's a 'right' to murder a child? Sounds like rationalization for murder to me, but whatever lets you sleep at night. My respect and compassion is for life. Your words are empty Mad, and I think you know it.

 

[Madeline]

Like it or not, Newby, an American woman has a right to reproductive freedom. Are you telling me that you approve of all the devious and even murderous ways in which various christian groups have sought to interfere with their exercise?

 

[Newby]

Like it or not, Newby, an American woman has a right to reproductive freedom. Are you telling me that you approve of all the devious and even murderous ways in which various christian groups have sought to interfere with their exercise?

Well, Mad, for me it has nothing to do with religion. I would be against murder regardless of my religious background, and you would think most other people would too. Murder is something that our society doesn't tolerate. But, paint it as 'reproductive freedom', whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, and suddenly you can fool yourself into believing that you're supporting something that's right. You can fool yourself, maybe for a little while, but not others, and I doubt you're fooling yourself either. Paint whatever pretty picture you want, it's murdering your own child, that's the bottom line. It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with humanity and compassion. With all of the technology and means there are today to not get pregnant, it shouldn't even be needed. But, I'm sure you feel the same way about one taking responsibility for their actions as well. It's over rated, right?

 

[Madeline]

Yanno, Newby I sorta regretted that this topic had arisen, as it is so divisive. But mebbe it can be instructive. Let's see.

You and I are in disagreement about abortion. The law says I can freely exercise my rights. Why is not enough for you to decide what to do with your OWN womb and leave me in peace? Am I over in your yard, bellyaching that YOUR choices are different than the ones I would make?

I don't understand why mutual respect is not valued by christian groups.

 

[Yukon.]

Madeline,

You have put your point-of-view across quite nicely and with manners. It is unfortunate though that most of the people who respond are intellectually inferior to you thereby making them incapable of logical, rational, and mature debate.

I look forward to perhaps one day debating with you - I hold a Bachelor's Degree in Literature, and a Masters Degree in theology.

ex- Fr. Yukon

 

[Madeline]

Yukon, I am not trying to shame anyone, least of all you.