Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[Crackerjack]

It is like Republicans think it is 1954

And you think it's 1917.

Is that Wilson in the WhiteHouse?

Racist!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I voted for Alan Keys a few years back but don't tell anyone, I don't want to tarnish my reputation as a racist!

 

[sealybobo]

Sealy, I don't have much good to say about Republicans, but the reason you could never be a libertarian, apart from general ignorance and misunderstanding of what the term means, is that you just don't value freedom very much. You've said as much in this thread repeatedly and I think it gets to the heart of the matter more than any of the strawmen you're trying to build. There's not much more to it than that. You want government that takes care of us and solves our problems - that, to you, is more important than freedom and independence.

I love it when you righties use words like strawman. Do you even know what that means? What you are doing is you are repeating a hot button issue. Freedom. What does that mean? Be more specific. But the people you appeal to with these hot button issues are low information voters.

Bottom line. Libertarians don't respect unions, regulations or government enough to ever become mainstream. Too extreme. They would take the power away from the government to regulate or enforce environmental laws. Ron Paul would "let the market decide".

The only freedom will be the corporations will be free to completely take over our government and not be accountable to anyone but themselves. Not a government that is for we the people. Sure the Libertards understand the bankers and the federal reserve are corrupt, but they don't seem to get its not just the bankers. The Robber Barons are back.

You don't value our government. And the GOP have brainwashed you into being against your own government. Started back when Reagan got into office. .

I want a government that levels the playing field. Without a government doing that, you and I will become poor. Ron Paul wants a free for all and we saw what less regulations and free trade did to the American middle class already. But Libertarians say we didn't go far enough.

Just like you don't believe in my phylosophy, I do not believe in yours. And it doesn't really matter since you can't even get him the GOP nominee. Gotta win over conservatives first. And you can't even do that. So don't waste your time with a liberal like me. Never gonna agree.

Here is some reading to educate you.

'You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government'

How Rich is Too Rich For Democracy?

Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

I have read and studied Ron Paul and his hero Ayn Rand. I do not agree with this greedy immoral phylosophy.

Here is what I think of people who use hot button issues like "freedom" to debate me.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOh-rpvjYg]Family Guy - Undecided Voters - YouTube[/ame]

 

[sealybobo]

I voted for Alan Keys a few years back but don't tell anyone, I don't want to tarnish my reputation as a racist!

Oh guys like you don't hate Alan Keys, Herman Cain or Colon Powell, unless they disagree with you and then you throw them under the bus. You only hate poor black people. Admit it that inner city black people bother you more than poor southern whites.

And billionaires aren't racist towards rich black people either. George Bush would rather live next to Oprah than you any day. To rich Republicans, we are all n*#*ers.

 

[dblack]

I love it when you righties use words like strawman. Do you even know what that means?

Yep. And from what I can tell, you do not. Or you choose to feign ignorance. I suggest a carrot for the nose.

Just like you don't believe in my phylosophy, I do not believe in yours.

There's a bit of truth. This is what I was saying. You want to be taken care of. You don't want freedom.

 

[sealybobo]

I love it when you righties use words like strawman. Do you even know what that means?

Yep. And from what I can tell, you do not. Or you choose to feign ignorance. I suggest a carrot for the nose.

Just like you don't believe in my phylosophy, I do not believe in yours.

There's a bit of truth. This is what I was saying. You want to be taken care of. You don't want freedom.

Well its official. I just heard Ron Paul out and I disagree with him. Not completely of course. He makes a few good points. But not enough to get me to vote for him.

Leno asked him about the Supreme Courts decision in Citizens United to let Corporations donate as much as they want, and Ron Paul couldn't get himself to tell the truth. To admit that corporate money is too big of an influence on our government.

Instead he fell back on his talking point about how government is too big. Whatever.

Anyways, doesn't matter since he can't even get past Romney or Santorum or Newt. Right?

 

[dblack]

I love it when you righties use words like strawman. Do you even know what that means?

Yep. And from what I can tell, you do not. Or you choose to feign ignorance. I suggest a carrot for the nose.

Just like you don't believe in my phylosophy, I do not believe in yours.

There's a bit of truth. This is what I was saying. You want to be taken care of. You don't want freedom.

Well its official. I just heard Ron Paul out and I disagree with him. Not completely of course. He makes a few good points. But not enough to get me to vote for him.

Leno asked him about the Supreme Courts decision in Citizens United to let Corporations donate as much as they want, and Ron Paul couldn't get himself to tell the truth. To admit that corporate money is too big of an influence on our government.

Instead he fell back on his talking point about how government is too big. Whatever.

Anyways, doesn't matter since he can't even get past Romney or Santorum or Newt. Right?

Also, coal is good for the eyes.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

Yeah well, REAL libertarians understand that SS is an insurance in which people pay for progressively throughout their careers...

The program is just being abused by progressives to dole out mass quantities of cash to lazy idiots at the expense of those who work hard.

The strong majority of libertarians advocate social security reform (as in it should be a private account).. I have always advocated for private accounts. I have also advocated that social security NOT be mandatory..

Don't confuse libertarians with anarchists.....

You think guys like me (or the general libertarian party) supports idiots running around in Guy Fawkus masks??

We believe in the Bill of Rights - and that's not anarchy - that is patriotism.

We're not the crazy ones - everyone else is.

 

[sealybobo]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

Yeah well, REAL libertarians understand that SS is an insurance in which people pay for progressively throughout their careers...

The program is just being abused by progressives to dole out mass quantities of cash to lazy idiots at the expense of those who work hard.

The strong majority of libertarians advocate social security reform (as in it should be a private account).. I have always advocated for private accounts. I have also advocated that social security NOT be mandatory..

Don't confuse libertarians with anarchists.....

You think guys like me (or the general libertarian party) supports idiots running around in Guy Fawkus masks??

We believe in the Bill of Rights - and that's not anarchy - that is patriotism.

We're not the crazy ones - everyone else is.

We pay into Social security you fucking joke. The politicians tapped into it. I believe this is how Bush paid for the Bush tax breaks and Iraq war. Now its time to put that money back. If they do, its got billions in the fund. Fully funded for decades to come.

Just like right wing evangelicals and Catholics enterpret the bible differently than us liberal christians, we disagree with Libertarians on what is and isn't constitutional.

And i'm sure Ron Paul and Mitt Romney don't completely agree on what is and isn't constitutional either. Right?

We believe in the Bill of Rights too. Who doesn't? See, this is another one of those low information voters who use broad/vague talking points like the Bill of Rights. You probably never even read the bill of rights. Just like most of you right wingers never read the bible. You only repeat what your preacher told you. Brainwashed.

We should have the President and the GOP nominee debate this right wing talking point. Freedom, Bill or Rights, Constitution. Who could be against any of these things?

Health Insurers: We'll Deny Coverage For Pre-Existing Conditions If Health Mandate Is Repealed | ThinkProgress

 

[Uncensored2008]

I voted for Alan Keys a few years back but don't tell anyone, I don't want to tarnish my reputation as a racist!

That doesn't count. Keyes isn't really black, because he's off the plantation....

 

[Uncensored2008]

We pay into Social security you fucking joke.

I envisioned you collecting an SSI check and drinking 40's in the ally behind the public library.

The politicians tapped into it. I believe this is how Bush paid for the Bush tax breaks and Iraq war.

No you don't, but you'll say it anyway.

Now its time to put that money back. If they do, its got billions in the fund. Fully funded for decades to come.

Nope, if every dime is repaid, it's good to go until 2017, then will go into deficit.

Just like right wing evangelicals and Catholics enterpret the bible differently than us liberal christians, we disagree with Libertarians on what is and isn't constitutional.

That isn't the Bible that your reading, it's Das Kapital - no wonder you get a different message.

And i'm sure Ron Paul and Mitt Romney don't completely agree on what is and isn't constitutional either. Right?

They probably do - but Romney is a lefty like Obama, and doesn't much care about the constitution.

We believe in the Bill of Rights too.

The fuck you do. Obama is at open war against the 1st Amendment. You are a mindless drone who supports anything the party tells you to support, so you support the war to end the 1st.

Who doesn't?

You don't.

You don't even know what rights are secured by the Bill of Rights, nor do you care.

See, this is another one of those low information voters who use broad/vague talking points like the Bill of Rights. You probably never even read the bill of rights.

We know you haven't.

Just like most of you right wingers never read the bible. You only repeat what your preacher told you. Brainwashed.

Irony,,

We should have the President and the GOP nominee debate this right wing talking point. Freedom, Bill or Rights, Constitution. Who could be against any of these things?

Let's have Obama explain why the constitution is flawed.

Health Insurers: We'll Deny Coverage For Pre-Existing Conditions If Health Mandate Is Repealed | ThinkProgress

Linking Think Progress confirms that you are a scumbag and a fucking retard.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FznfAeGKZa4]ThinkProgress lies for Obama - YouTube[/ame]

 

[sealybobo]

I voted for Alan Keys a few years back but don't tell anyone, I don't want to tarnish my reputation as a racist!

That doesn't count. Keyes isn't really black, because he's off the plantation....

Social Security either

a. Isn't broken or

b. Like the Post Office, wasn't broken until the GOP got their hands on it.

and

c. Can be easily fixed. Just raise the limit so the cut off isn't $112,000. After that, guys like Romney don't contribute anything to the program. I heard something like A Rod on the Yankees max's out after the first inning of his first game played every year. Now that's not right. They need to pay their fair share.

d. Social Security if very popular. If you took an honest look you would learn all the sinister reasons why rich righties want to do away with it. Horrible idea. Reason why Ron Paul only gets 8% of the GOP vote. And if 8% of them like him, that means only 4% of us like him at best, so consider yourselves fringe thinkers.

e. No one is buying the unconstitutional or its about freedom schtick. You guys don't know what you are talking about.

 

[sealybobo]

You’ve probably already heard about how the Mitt Romney campaign adviser said that Mitt’s ultra-conservative positions in the primary could just be erased in the general election: “It’s almost like an Etch A Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and restart all over again.” The fascinating thing about this Romney gaffe is that it was made by an aide. Mitt has so many gaffes that he has to delegate them!

Within hours of the gaffe, both Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich were at campaign events with actual Etch A Sketches as props. The Rick Santorum campaign is so disorganized that I wouldn’t have been surprised if he would have showed up at a campaign even with a Lite Brite or an Easy-Bake Oven. Santorum warned Republican voters that if they vote for Romney, “whoever you vote for is going to be a completely new candidate.” Actually, that’s something of a comforting thought. A candidate who is completely fake and insincere is better than a candidate who truly believes in the ultra-conservative crap that Mitt Romney has been spewing. And the candidate who truly believes that crap is Rick Santorum.



Read more: Randi Rhodes

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I voted for Alan Keys a few years back but don't tell anyone, I don't want to tarnish my reputation as a racist!

That doesn't count. Keyes isn't really black, because he's off the plantation....

Social Security either

a. Isn't broken or

b. Like the Post Office, wasn't broken until the GOP got their hands on it.

and

c. Can be easily fixed. Just raise the limit so the cut off isn't $112,000. After that, guys like Romney don't contribute anything to the program. I heard something like A Rod on the Yankees max's out after the first inning of his first game played every year. Now that's not right. They need to pay their fair share.

d. Social Security if very popular. If you took an honest look you would learn all the sinister reasons why rich righties want to do away with it. Horrible idea. Reason why Ron Paul only gets 8% of the GOP vote. And if 8% of them like him, that means only 4% of us like him at best, so consider yourselves fringe thinkers.

e. No one is buying the unconstitutional or its about freedom schtick. You guys don't know what you are talking about.

God didn't like you very much huh?

 

[hipeter924]

Tried socialism, center left and right, and libertarianism. I grew out of them, and just thought for myself, which is better than keeping a label. Won't see me protesting, spreading hate or trying to divide society.

 

[sealybobo]

Tried socialism, center left and right, and libertarianism. I grew out of them, and just thought for myself, which is better than keeping a label. Won't see me protesting, spreading hate or trying to divide society.

Well I realized that while the whole system is corrupt, one party in particular is absolutely against me, and everyone else who isn't rich or works for a living.

I've realized that while I'm not in a union, I know the value unions have on the American middle class. Wouldn't exist without them and is disappering as union membership has gone from 35% to what, 8%? They don't have the power they used to, and we see in the same 30 years they have been attacked, wages haven't gone up one bit.

I can debate anything with you on any issue. Tell me an issue you lean right on and we will discuss. And if you are fair and reasonable, you will find so am I.

 

[Decepticon]

My experience is that so called "libertarians" are nothing more than people who are looking for a way to rationalize not participating in the "UNITED" States of America.

Having benefited from the spending and commitment past generations have made in schools, roads, education and infrastructure, they do not see fit to continue the tradition that they themselves enjoyed, instead opting to keep that money for themselves in the form of tax cuts and stiffing future generations.

All's libertarianism is, is a rationalization for selfishness.




(Homer and the kids visit a museum and there's a box asking for voluntary donations)
Homer: What do you mean by "suggested donation"?
Clerk: Pay any amount you wish, sir.
Homer: And uh, what if I wish to pay... zero?
Clerk: That is up to you.
Homer: Ooh, so it's up to me, is it?
Clerk: Yes.
Homer: I see. And you think that people are going to pay you $4.50 even though they don't have to? Just out of the goodness of their... (laughs) Well, anything you say! Good luck, lady, you're gonna need it!

 

[sealybobo]

My experience is that so called "libertarians" are nothing more than people who are looking for a way to rationalize not participating in the "UNITED" States of America.

Having benefited from the spending and commitment past generations have made in schools, roads, education and infrastructure, they do not see fit to continue the tradition that they themselves enjoyed, instead opting to keep that money for themselves in the form of tax cuts and stiffing future generations.

All's libertarianism is, is a rationalization for selfishness.




(Homer and the kids visit a museum and there's a box asking for voluntary donations)
Homer: What do you mean by "suggested donation"?
Clerk: Pay any amount you wish, sir.
Homer: And uh, what if I wish to pay... zero?
Clerk: That is up to you.
Homer: Ooh, so it's up to me, is it?
Clerk: Yes.
Homer: I see. And you think that people are going to pay you $4.50 even though they don't have to? Just out of the goodness of their... (laughs) Well, anything you say! Good luck, lady, you're gonna need it!

 

[dblack]

My experience is that so called "libertarians" are nothing more than people who are looking for a way to rationalize not participating in the "UNITED" States of America.

Having benefited from the spending and commitment past generations have made in schools, roads, education and infrastructure, they do not see fit to continue the tradition that they themselves enjoyed, instead opting to keep that money for themselves in the form of tax cuts and stiffing future generations.

All's libertarianism is, is a rationalization for selfishness.

Yeah.. that's all a lot of people will hear.

 

[sealybobo]

I figure this is where I will come when I want to vent or explain why I think middle class Americans are fools for voting for the GOP.

Are the GOP Justices Political Hacks?

Are the GOP Justices Political Hacks? | Consortiumnews