Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[Redfish]

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

ALL socialists are control freaks and delusional to the core, and Bernie is a career politician making him corrupt to the core.

IN other words ya got nothing but total non-sense...Got it !!! so you're saying to us that Trump isn't a control freak ??? you're saying Chris Cristy isn't a control freak ???or any of the republicans running for office aren't control freaks cause they're not career politician ... only the socialist bernie sanders is the control freek career politician ... we get it

Well, there is nothing sane about an socialist... Is there??
...and being a career politician too = all sorts of bat shit crazy.
Bernie belongs in
The Elizabeth Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane
Lol

its fun to watch you make a fool of yourself ... oh by the way, I not voting for sanders, I hope you know, I'm voting for Hillary

can she serve from a jail cell?

 

[Redfish]

to the OP. We don't want you to be a libertarian or GOP. Those groups do not accept idiots.

 

[LeftofLeft]

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

Fact is, since the GOP made all their cuts to government programs that help the poor and since they implimented their unregulated free trade, more people have slipped into poverty. And charities and religion are proving they are not capable of handling or solving the growing problem. This is what our government is for.

This was written in 2007. This is why I laugh when Republicans try to suggest that Obama is at fault for the mess we are in.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

Since Bush has been president:

•over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
•nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
•median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
•three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
•three million American workers have lost their pensions;
•home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
•the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
•the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
•entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
•wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

 

[Redfish]

Fact is, since the GOP made all their cuts to government programs that help the poor and since they implimented their unregulated free trade, more people have slipped into poverty. And charities and religion are proving they are not capable of handling or solving the growing problem. This is what our government is for.

This was written in 2007. This is why I laugh when Republicans try to suggest that Obama is at fault for the mess we are in.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

Since Bush has been president:

•over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
•nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
•median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
•three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
•three million American workers have lost their pensions;
•home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
•the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
•the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
•entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
•wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

 

[Rustic]

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

...and someone else will pay for it, it's the socialist way till the money runs out.
Bernie is a butt nugget

 

[JoeNormal]

to the OP. We don't want you to be a libertarian or GOP. Those groups do not accept idiots.

Why, are they full?

 

[sealybobo]

to the OP. We don't want you to be a libertarian or GOP. Those groups do not accept idiots.

​

​

 

[Redfish]

to the OP. We don't want you to be a libertarian or GOP. Those groups do not accept idiots.

​

​

when unable to debate effectively, post a stupid cartoon. got it.

 

[sealybobo]

to the OP. We don't want you to be a libertarian or GOP. Those groups do not accept idiots.

​

​

when unable to debate effectively, post a stupid cartoon. got it.

How would you suggest I effectively debate your comment:
"We don't want you to be a libertarian or GOP. Those groups do not accept idiots." You expected me to debate that? Fucking idiot.

Please don't act like you are posting pearls of wisdom because you are not. You think you are being intellectually honest but you really are not. So I reply back with an appropriate response. If you reply to me with something intelligent I'll reply in kind.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

 

[sealybobo]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

What did the rich do to help poor and middle class Americans get out of the Great Depression? Nothing! That's why FDR had to step in.

In the first century of our republic we were short of capital, short of workers and short of industrial production; but we were rich in free land, free timber and free mineral wealth. The Federal Government rightly assumed the duty of promoting business and relieving depression by giving subsidies of land and other resources.
Thus, from our earliest days we have had a tradition of substantial government help to our system of private enterprise. But today the government no longer has vast tracts of rich land to give away and we have discovered that we must spend large sums to conserve our land from further erosion and our forests from further depletion. The situation is also very different from the old days, because now we have plenty of capital, banks and insurance companies loaded with idle money; plenty of industrial productive capacity and several millions of workers looking for jobs. It is following tradition as well as necessity, if Government strives to put idle money and idle men to work, to increase our public wealth and to build up the health and strength of the people—and to help our system of private enterprise to function.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Franklin D. Roosevelt: Fireside Chat.

1938 all over again. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.[/FONT]

 

[sealybobo]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

 

[9aces]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

So you believe people should be forced at gunpoint to pay for your "compassion".

 

[9aces]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

That's complete horseshit. Government is a horribly bad problem solver. See the trillions spent on social programs...to get more poverty than they had before.

 

[Contumacious]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

 

[sealybobo]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

You act like you didn't grow up in America or you act like America is as once the kind of country you are describing where we had a flat tax. You do realize we never had a flat tax right? So that means you made it in the society in which you want to change so other people coming up after you have a harder time making it and you don't appreciate all the help you got along the way oh yeah oh yeah I'm sure you didn't get any help. you did it all yourself liar

 

[sealybobo]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

Actually us liberals who faught to give poor people healthcare already had healthcare. We saw it was the right thing to do.

People who didn't have insurance were costing us remember? Hospitals still had to treat them remember?

Are people in Germany Canada and Australia parasites? They all have healthcare. My how you must view the rest of the world.

 

[Contumacious]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

You act like you didn't grow up in America or you act like America is as once the kind of country you are describing where we had a flat tax. You do realize we never had a flat tax right? So that means you made it in the society in which you want to change so other people coming up after you have a harder time making it and you don't appreciate all the help you got along the way oh yeah oh yeah I'm sure you didn't get any help. you did it all yourself liar

HUH?

Fedgov control all aspects of the economy.

So it is very hard to enter an endeavor which is not being regulated by DC.

That does NOT mean that I asked for help.

If Congress nationalizes oxygen tomorrow then I will be breathing government owned oxygen whether I wanted to do it or not.


.

 

[Contumacious]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

Actually us liberals who faught to give poor people healthcare already had healthcare. We saw it was the right thing to do.

People who didn't have insurance were costing us remember? Hospitals still had to treat them remember?

Are people in Germany Canada and Australia parasites? They all have healthcare. My how you must view the rest of the world.

Those folks would not need help with healthcare if the government had DEREGULATED healthcare . Healthcare has been regulated since 1840. Medicare and medicaid compounded the problem, They made healthcare unaffordable for those who were not covered by those plans.

what we need is FREE MARKET in healthcare. Government's hands off completely and totally.


.

 

[Redfish]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

Actually us liberals who faught to give poor people healthcare already had healthcare. We saw it was the right thing to do.

People who didn't have insurance were costing us remember? Hospitals still had to treat them remember?

Are people in Germany Canada and Australia parasites? They all have healthcare. My how you must view the rest of the world.

the poor in the USA had free healthcare before ACA. No one in the USA was denied medical care before that POS bill was passed.

Sure, when you get it free its a little inconvenient--------tough shit------------its free.