Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[dblack]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

So, you need government to force you to sell your quadrunner and donate money to the poor?

 

[sealybobo]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

So, you need government to force you to sell your quadrunner and donate money to the poor?

Did you watch this bit on how you and I are evil and we don't care?

Louis CK's Really Evil Life | Jason Brennan

 

[Arizona Willie]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

Actually us liberals who faught to give poor people healthcare already had healthcare. We saw it was the right thing to do.

People who didn't have insurance were costing us remember? Hospitals still had to treat them remember?

Are people in Germany Canada and Australia parasites? They all have healthcare. My how you must view the rest of the world.

==============

I would hate to be one of the people responding who think EVERYONE ELSE is a parasite.

They go through life believing everyone is out to STEAL FROM THEM.

Nobody works for their money BUT THEM.

It must be a terrible way to live and see the world.

I am so glad they aren't a member of MY family.

 

[billyerock1991]

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

what the hells wrong with you ??? no liberals/democrate has ever implied its all for free ... health care or anything ... every body pays according to their income ... we've said that from the get go ... I think you need to go to bernie's web site and see his plan before you come here and make a first class fool of yoursel like you did here
its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

 

[billyerock1991]

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

here's his plan now come back here and show us where he said its free???
5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan
stop making a fool of yourself

 

[billyerock1991]

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

ALL socialists are control freaks and delusional to the core, and Bernie is a career politician making him corrupt to the core.

IN other words ya got nothing but total non-sense...Got it !!! so you're saying to us that Trump isn't a control freak ??? you're saying Chris Cristy isn't a control freak ???or any of the republicans running for office aren't control freaks cause they're not career politician ... only the socialist bernie sanders is the control freek career politician ... we get it

Well, there is nothing sane about an socialist... Is there??
...and being a career politician too = all sorts of bat shit crazy.
Bernie belongs in
The Elizabeth Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane
Lol

its fun to watch you make a fool of yourself ... oh by the way, I not voting for sanders, I hope you know, I'm voting for Hillary

can she serve from a jail cell?

I guess so ... you seem to be able to post from your jail cell

 

[billyerock1991]

Fact is, since the GOP made all their cuts to government programs that help the poor and since they implimented their unregulated free trade, more people have slipped into poverty. And charities and religion are proving they are not capable of handling or solving the growing problem. This is what our government is for.

This was written in 2007. This is why I laugh when Republicans try to suggest that Obama is at fault for the mess we are in.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

Since Bush has been president:

•over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
•nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
•median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
•three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
•three million American workers have lost their pensions;
•home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
•the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
•the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
•entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
•wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

you're void of thought, heres some of his web site .... I realize there are big words there, but so you'll understand what they mean there is a on line dictionary ... so have at it oh void of thought one
5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

 

[Rustic]

How would you increase household income? - Increase take home pay. Lower taxes. Personal savings is a choice. If people are losing money paycheck to paycheck on living essentials, then that is problem. If people are spending their money on non-essentials and not saving, how is their choice my problem? As for real earnings of college graduates has declined by 5%, maybe colleges need to push and focus its students in areas of study where there is a demand in jobs. Get the degree in Computer Science and take Women's Studies courses as a minor; not the inverse.

Finally, as for manufacturing jobs, it is too easy to say that the reason jobs have been lost due to greediness of C-Levels who ship these jobs overseas. If China, India, and other cheap labor countries had the same corporate tax rate, same labor laws, same legal liability levels, and same government regulations, then the C-Level greediness mantra might work.

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

you ve viod of thought heres some of his web site I realize there are big words there but so you'll understand there is a on line dictionary ... so have at it oh void of thought one
5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

Millions of Americans want nothing to do with his bat shit crazy socialism....

 

[billyerock1991]

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

...and someone else will pay for it, it's the socialist way till the money runs out.
Bernie is a butt nugget

like I said go read it stop making a fool of yourself 5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

 

[billyerock1991]

His only answer is like any socialist, Robin Hood.
Taking and giving, never works long term... Lol

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

you ve viod of thought heres some of his web site I realize there are big words there but so you'll understand there is a on line dictionary ... so have at it oh void of thought one
5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

Millions of Americans want nothing to do with his bat shit crazy socialism....

really can you give us your source of information or are you running off at the mouth again ...

 

[billyerock1991]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

So you believe people should be forced at gunpoint to pay for your "compassion".

you republicans are such extremist gunpoint really are you that stupid??? lets see how do we get it done Hummm how do we get it done ??? have ya figured it out yet moron or are you standing behind your door lock and loaded??? gunpoint you are stuypid

WE pass laws... laws that are designed to help .. where everybody pays ...not just republicans ...all thought they should be stuck with the cost after all the did create this mess in the first place

 

[dblack]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

So, you need government to force you to sell your quadrunner and donate money to the poor?

Did you watch this bit on how you and I are evil and we don't care?

Louis CK's Really Evil Life | Jason Brennan

Yeah. Louis CK is brilliant, and that piece, in particular, resonates with me. But if you think his goal is to show us that we're really evil, you're missing the point. Dark humor is subtle, and not everyone gets it. His point isn't to recognize that we're all evil, but to remind us that we're not.

 

[billyerock1991]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

That's complete horseshit. Government is a horribly bad problem solver. See the trillions spent on social programs...to get more poverty than they had before.

lets look at that what has happen .... here democrats pass a plan with a tax to pay for that plan ... what does the republicans do ??? they get in control of the house a take the money away to pay for that plan, then idiots like you say see if failed ... just like they tried with Obama care.. but they failed becasue Obama veto that bill ... what was passed was a tax, 2% of medical equipment ... that money goes to the people buying health care ...to off set the cost of their plan ... if they passed it they idiots like you would say see government can't do anything right ... everyt ime a plan has failed republicans had their hands all over it

 

[billyerock1991]

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

And of course the "problem" you are referring to is the PARASITIC need to be

fed
insured,
clothed
educated
have your thirst quenched

Parasites are envious - they want to steal and loot their neighbors wealth so they depend on socialism/fascism to legalize theft


.

Actually us liberals who faught to give poor people healthcare already had healthcare. We saw it was the right thing to do.

People who didn't have insurance were costing us remember? Hospitals still had to treat them remember?

Are people in Germany Canada and Australia parasites? They all have healthcare. My how you must view the rest of the world.

==============

I would hate to be one of the people responding who think EVERYONE ELSE is a parasite.

They go through life believing everyone is out to STEAL FROM THEM.

Nobody works for their money BUT THEM.

It must be a terrible way to live and see the world.

I am so glad they aren't a member of MY family.

you've just described a republican

 

[Rustic]

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

you ve viod of thought heres some of his web site I realize there are big words there but so you'll understand there is a on line dictionary ... so have at it oh void of thought one
5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

Millions of Americans want nothing to do with his bat shit crazy socialism....

really can you give us your source of information or are you running off at the mouth again ...

Who says there is not millions who nothing to do with socialism??

 

[Rustic]

Works fine till you run out of other people's money, then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

...and someone else will pay for it, it's the socialist way till the money runs out.
Bernie is a butt nugget

like I said go read it stop making a fool of yourself 5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

It can't work for millions... It takes away from standard of life.

 

[Redfish]

I think you have no Idea when he states he's a democrat socialist ... you have this notion that he wants to take everybody's money to run the country ... he doesn't ... thats the furthest thing from the truth ... have you ever listen to what he has said ??? or are you one of these conservatives who hears the word socialist and shuts down all thought

What is Bernie Sanders saying? Yes, you already took your shot that conservatives are devoid of thought. So, how about enlightening or translating what Bernie Sanders intends to do.

its easy-------------------------------EVERYTHING FREE, FREE MEDICAL CARE, FREE FOOD, FREE HOUSING, FREE CARS, FREE CONDOMS, FREE BC PILLS, FREE ABORTIONS, FREE, FREE, FREE,

LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS, SANDERS IS AN IDIOT. CLINTON IS AN IDIOT(AND A CRIMINAL)

...and someone else will pay for it, it's the socialist way till the money runs out.
Bernie is a butt nugget

like I said go read it stop making a fool of yourself 5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

It can't work for millions... It takes away from standard of life.

the liberal goal for the USA----------------everyone EQUALLY miserable.

 

[9aces]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

So you believe people should be forced at gunpoint to pay for your "compassion".

you republicans are such extremist gunpoint really are you that stupid??? lets see how do we get it done Hummm how do we get it done ??? have ya figured it out yet moron or are you standing behind your door lock and loaded??? gunpoint you are stuypid

WE pass laws... laws that are designed to help .. where everybody pays ...not just republicans ...all thought they should be stuck with the cost after all the did create this mess in the first place

And yet those laws don't help. Or haven't you noticed?

 

[dblack]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

So you believe people should be forced at gunpoint to pay for your "compassion".

you republicans are such extremist gunpoint really are you that stupid??? lets see how do we get it done Hummm how do we get it done ??? have ya figured it out yet moron or are you standing behind your door lock and loaded??? gunpoint you are stuypid

WE pass laws... laws that are designed to help .. where everybody pays ...not just republicans ...all thought they should be stuck with the cost after all the did create this mess in the first place

And yet those laws don't help. Or haven't you noticed?

Well, they aren't perfect. They're run by people after all. And the premise of this viewpoint is that people are too selfish to care or others unless they're forced to.

Uh ...

 

[Indeependent]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

============
Reality shows us that people DO NOT take care of the poorest when there is no government compulsion to do so.

In countries where there is no government " safety net ", such as India, they have beggars in the streets.

You can try to fool yourself all you want but I'm not buying it. I've seen countries where the only help for the poor comes from coins people tossed them.

Not my definition of " caring for the less fortunate ".

People who claim the government should not take money from them to help others because they would do it on their own, those people wouldn't give their grandmother 50 cents.

I've seen a lot of right wingers claim they gave to the poor but they never post copies of their tax returns to prove it and from the way they talk in their posts I don't believe a word they say.

They don't realize the level in which they are charitable isn't going to solve shit. Republicans yesterday suggested I sell my quadrunner and donate the money to the poor. Is that going to solve anything?

So that's why government gets involved. Government only gets involved when capitalism is unwilling or unable to solve a problem.

That's complete horseshit. Government is a horribly bad problem solver. See the trillions spent on social programs...to get more poverty than they had before.

lets look at that what has happen .... here democrats pass a plan with a tax to pay for that plan ... what does the republicans do ??? they get in control of the house a take the money away to pay for that plan, then idiots like you say see if failed ... just like they tried with Obama care.. but they failed becasue Obama veto that bill ... what was passed was a tax, 2% of medical equipment ... that money goes to the people buying health care ...to off set the cost of their plan ... if they passed it they idiots like you would say see government can't do anything right ... everyt ime a plan has failed republicans had their hands all over it

Take your time typing because you know some moron will ridicule your postings based on your grammar and syntax.