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Both moderates.
Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.
I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.
I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.
But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.
It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.
Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.
The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.
The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:
"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."
The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension
The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.
So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?
Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.
Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.
So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?
Medicaid Helps Hospitals Pay For Illegal Immigrants’ Care
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"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."
That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?
That's medical care for illegals.
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The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?
No I would support shipping her ass out of the country before she drops a kid. And refusing entry to any pregnant woman.
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Agree to disagree. We are not putting America on surveillance, just the borders. Obviously an issue of national security currently. No one is saying put cameras on your home or mine. But, go anywhere in our country and you have been recorded for posterity. This does actually solve a lot of crime throughout the country. If you think we have a lot of surveillance here, England for example is that much more. This is a done deal, and not going anywhere.
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No need for the government to place microphones and cameras in people homes, too many are doing it themselves. All these digital assistance and wireless security systems opens up every one that uses them to in home surveillance.
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They have a choice right now.
No shit, captain obvious.
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And yet those you associate with would take away that right.
Me thinks you need to elaborate on that one.
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It's just getting old hearing each party justify shitty policies "because the other side". It's just like arguing with liberals about ACA. When they are forced to admit that ACA was a sellout to the insurance industry, they blame it on the Republicans - even though exactly no Republicans voted for it.
Likewise, when your wall horseshit is shown to be nothing more than protectionist trade policy lathered up in fear mongering, you blame it on the left, or point out all the horrible things the left has done as if to justify the horrible things you want to do.
If we don't do something to bust up the stranglehold of the two-party system, your partisan pissing match is going to flush the whole country down the toilet.
Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.
dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.
Both moderates.
Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.
I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.
What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.
That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.
What a crock of shit, no one is trying to deny Americans their liberty. They are trying to secure our country to prevent the loss of lives, liberty and property.
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ROTF, LMAO, ROTF. LMAO.
Your entire campaign is a direct assault on Liberty. Most of those on your side won't even answer the question of where we got our unalienable Rights from. If they cannot answer that, they sure as Hell don't know what Liberty is. Are you nucking futs or what!
Bull hockey, securing our borders doesn't effect the liberty of our citizens. Not securing it, on the other hand, is getting tens of thousands killed, the absolute denial of liberty. They've already seized enough fentanyl to kill everyone in this country. Accidental exposure to as little as 3 grains can kill a 250 pound man. Carfentanyl is even worse and they're finding more and more of it.
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Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?
And, again, one of those silly ass arguments that if you don't support a wall, you're against border security. You'd rather die and rot in Hell rather than to have an honest discussion about this, wouldn't you?
Your religion is the wall. Maybe, someday, the good Lord will give you four of them and keep society protected from people like you.
My rights or where they come from is irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about border security and national security. This country has a right to self defense and the enforcement of our borders and laws. A wall is only one component of that. Personally I'd just shoot anyone crossing illegally, that would put a stop to it.
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Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.
dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.
Both moderates.
Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.
Dude, where are your reasoning skills? Asking questions is not taking a position.
dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.
Both moderates.
Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.
Dude, where are your reasoning skills? Asking questions is not taking a position.
You and Black are not asking questions, you did take a position.
Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.
I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.
I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.
But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.
It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.
Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.
You don't bother to read, do you? It is YOUR position that the jobs created are for the American people. That has nothing to do with your immigration argument. You are afraid to separate the two.
You have FINALLY been half honest with me, Ray. Your REAL objective is to keep people out of the United States. If you look back, it wasn't that hard, Ray.
Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?
Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.
LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.
Both moderates.
Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.
Dude, where are your reasoning skills? Asking questions is not taking a position.
You and Black are not asking questions, you did take a position.
I've not taken a position, otherwise you would have quoted it.
I will repeat this again: Your ass was probably in diapers the first time I had to publicly give my opinion on this topic. And you can bet the family farm, my response was NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form liberal or moderate.
"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."
That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?
That's medical care for illegals.
.
The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?
No I would support shipping her ass out of the country before she drops a kid. And refusing entry to any pregnant woman.
.
.
Good in theory, not always possible in practice.
No need for the government to place microphones and cameras in people homes, too many are doing it themselves. All these digital assistance and wireless security systems opens up every one that uses them to in home surveillance.
.
They have a choice right now.
No shit, captain obvious.
.
And yet those you associate with would take away that right.
Me thinks you need to elaborate on that one.
.
How can I elaborate on it when you don't know what Liberty is NOR where it comes from?
That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.
I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.
I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.
But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.
It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.
Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.
You don't bother to read, do you? It is YOUR position that the jobs created are for the American people. That has nothing to do with your immigration argument. You are afraid to separate the two.
You have FINALLY been half honest with me, Ray. Your REAL objective is to keep people out of the United States. If you look back, it wasn't that hard, Ray.
I've always been honest about it, but you never cared for what I said.
Me being against immigration is for several reason, not just one. I've listed several of them, but there are actually more. And if you list those negatives of immigration vs so-called positives, you will find the negative beats the positive three to one.
"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."
That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?
That's medical care for illegals.
.
The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?
No I would support shipping her ass out of the country before she drops a kid. And refusing entry to any pregnant woman.
.
.
Good in theory, not always possible in practice.
Maybe we should buy some land in Mexico and set up birthing centers, if a woman gets close, just send her there until the kid is delivered. Any woman requesting a visa should have to prove shes not pregnant. This birth tourism has to be stopped too.
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And yet those you associate with would take away that right.
Me thinks you need to elaborate on that one.
.
How can I elaborate on it when you don't know what Liberty is NOR where it comes from?
You were telling me what people I associate with are doing, and you're like all ignorant people are assuming facts not in evidence.
.
I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.
I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.
But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.
It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.
Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.
You don't bother to read, do you? It is YOUR position that the jobs created are for the American people. That has nothing to do with your immigration argument. You are afraid to separate the two.
You have FINALLY been half honest with me, Ray. Your REAL objective is to keep people out of the United States. If you look back, it wasn't that hard, Ray.
I've always been honest about it, but you never cared for what I said.
Me being against immigration is for several reason, not just one. I've listed several of them, but there are actually more. And if you list those negatives of immigration vs so-called positives, you will find the negative beats the positive three to one.
If you were being honest, then you were ignorant and need to do some reading in several areas: general civics, history, law and constitutional interpretation.
That, most likely, explains why you try to pass me off as a liberal or a moderate instead of answering questions as they are asked of you.
Pretexts are not reasons. They are just that. For example, in my neighborhood, there are PLENTY of jobs almost anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size can get. Most pay between $20 and $40 an hour. When they don't take them and Hispanics show up, I work them.
NOWHERE in that scenario does it give you any indication of where I stand on the issue. But, sometimes I need things done and have to work within a budget. If Americans don't apply for the jobs, I either get the help I need or lose what I own. It's that simple. Do you realize I've been at this for four decades now and not one single time has one of the people wanting a wall and bitching about jobs EVER walked away from their computer and applied for a job that I told them about?
What a crock of shit, no one is trying to deny Americans their liberty. They are trying to secure our country to prevent the loss of lives, liberty and property.
.
ROTF, LMAO, ROTF. LMAO.
Your entire campaign is a direct assault on Liberty. Most of those on your side won't even answer the question of where we got our unalienable Rights from. If they cannot answer that, they sure as Hell don't know what Liberty is. Are you nucking futs or what!
Bull hockey, securing our borders doesn't effect the liberty of our citizens. Not securing it, on the other hand, is getting tens of thousands killed, the absolute denial of liberty. They've already seized enough fentanyl to kill everyone in this country. Accidental exposure to as little as 3 grains can kill a 250 pound man. Carfentanyl is even worse and they're finding more and more of it.
.
Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?
And, again, one of those silly ass arguments that if you don't support a wall, you're against border security. You'd rather die and rot in Hell rather than to have an honest discussion about this, wouldn't you?
Your religion is the wall. Maybe, someday, the good Lord will give you four of them and keep society protected from people like you.
My rights or where they come from is irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about border security and national security. This country has a right to self defense and the enforcement of our borders and laws. A wall is only one component of that. Personally I'd just shoot anyone crossing illegally, that would put a stop to it.
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Rights are relevant to the discussion since the bulk of your proposed solutions advocate infringing upon the Rights of American people to get what you want. You also want to infringe upon the Constitution as originally written and intended - clearly exposing you as a left wing liberal.
The flg says it all.Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!
If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.
Dude, where are your reasoning skills? Asking questions is not taking a position.
You and Black are not asking questions, you did take a position.
I've not taken a position, otherwise you would have quoted it.
I will repeat this again: Your ass was probably in diapers the first time I had to publicly give my opinion on this topic. And you can bet the family farm, my response was NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form liberal or moderate.
Please, don't flatter yourself. I can only wish I was as young as you perceive.
But it's not just me that has you nailed as a near open-border person, several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.
If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.
Dude, where are your reasoning skills? Asking questions is not taking a position.
You and Black are not asking questions, you did take a position.
I've not taken a position, otherwise you would have quoted it.
I will repeat this again: Your ass was probably in diapers the first time I had to publicly give my opinion on this topic. And you can bet the family farm, my response was NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form liberal or moderate.
Please, don't flatter yourself. I can only wish I was as young as you perceive.
But it's not just me that has you nailed as a near open-border person, several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.
Of course you can all be wrong. Jim Jones got over 900 people to drink cyanide laced Kool Aid based on a lie. You are just as susceptible to being fooled - AND you just proved it with that part "several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.."
You just inadvertently admitted you're a Democrat - majority rule - might makes right.
Let me tell you something:
Ever since the Israelites began worshiping the golden calf while Moses was receiving the law of God, history has proven that majorities are usually wrong. In the instant case BOTH sides are wrong - and you're wrong basically because the solutions you stand behind belonged to Democrats before they were adopted by the people writing your talking points.
