Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Ray From Cleveland]

More cheap excuses. You people never seem to run out of them.

Unfortunately, Ray, they run out of them very fast, then like children, go full circle right back to the argument they started with, as if they never made it before or had it clearly proven wrong.

Well so far, we have.........

These people work illegally and pay taxes for programs they won't collect on.,

These people work harder than Americans.

These people commit less violent crimes than Americans.

These poor people somehow stimulate the economy.

A wall won't work even though nobody can produce evidence of that claim.

They will simply buy tall ladders or dig tunnels, and our border security, military nor engineers figured that out yet.

These people are taking jobs Americans don't want. Jobs that pay $2.00 an hour.

A wall will turn us into Nazi Germany or the USSR.

The only people wanting a wall are xenophobes and racists.

Protecting our borders interferes in capitalism.

Most illegals enter through legal VISA's, therefore nothing should be done about other ways they get in.

I'm sure I missed some you may have thought of. But the truth of the matter is they are looking for any excuse to have a borderless country.

Although I did not understand what point you were trying to make, I'll give you a few points so that we can clear this up just for you:

1) Those who want the border wall have been asked WHY they want it. When those who do not want the wall respond to one PRETEXT, the wall advocates simply change the goal posts. For example, IIRC when I entered this thread, the pretext for the wall was sovereignty (see post # 951.) Somebody probably addressed more pretexts, but I think I joined the conversation somewhere along post #951.

Since then the pretexts have ranged from undocumented immigrants stealing jobs to not paying taxes and from SUPPOSED costs of immigrants (welfare, medical costs, etc.) to the PRETEXT of safety. At the end of the day, people like Ray have not been able to articulate a reason as to WHY they support a wall idea. Respond to the PRETEXT of the day and they invent another

2) WHEN the PRETEXTS are examined and found to be baseless, Ray, and those who support his position, have a hissy fit, wanting us to look at all their supposed evidence that they think supports their position.

The problem for them is that while China does have a wall, China is also ONE people. 98.5 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. To date, the wall supporters have avoided the QUESTION of what the agenda is beyond the wall. Say you write them a check for umpteen BILLIONS of dollars to build the wall. Is the long term goal then to rid America of the third worlders and other foreigners, getting rid of not only the poverty stricken, but say people like Muslims (whose religion dictates that they will either convert or kill us)???

The second problem for the wall advocates is that they cannot understand why a wall may be effective for one country, but not the United States. For whatever reason, the build the wall advocates were never taught that America was founded as a constitutional Republic and THE ONLY NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHOSE GOVERNMENT IS GUARANTEEING GOD GIVEN, INHERENT, NATURAL, UNALIENABLE, ABSOLUTE RIGHTS.

You cannot take from one country something you like and then ignore the accompanying things that make their numbers look good. In other words, if you want to be like the Israelis, then you have to declare a state of war; you have to maintain an atmosphere of distrust, conflict, and chaos so that you can have a PRETEXT to suspend the Rights of the people in order to keep the foreigners out.

We're not engaged in a war and sensible people do NOT want the POLICE STATE which would be a necessity to enforce the nutty wall idea. The wall don't just magically keep people out. Whoever guards the wall must HATE the foreigners so that the guards will not be susceptible to turning a blind eye to those who breach the wall.

Americans will have to be programmed, Pavlovian style, to HATE the people from south of the border because, unlike the Israelis, we are not at war from the people south of our border. The Israelis are fighting an enemy who, according to the Bible, have their hand against every man and every man's hand against them. Those Ishmaelites, the people trying to breach Israel's defenses, are doing so in order to KILL a political enemy.

In the United States, the atmosphere is much different. The people coming here from south of the border are finding WILLING Americans to do business with. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's not like you have to stand guard at the border and kill or be killed

3) The aim of political globalists is to con the Americans into giving up their Rights. Even when it was pointed out to Ray how, when our Second Amendment Rights were protected, the legal principle protected Sanctuary Cities, he chose to ignore the FACT that the laws required to enforce the nutty wall idea will end up costing you the Rights our forefathers fought, bled and died in order to secure for us.

The pro-wall advocates will call Nancy Pelosi a liar all the way up to the point that she says no wall - no way. The build the wall advocates are generally working in industries where people are actors and negotiators (lawyers, politicians, and people involved in professional wrestling are good at it.) So, those build the wall people do not understand that the fix is in. They will get their silly wall, but the Democrats have already been guaranteed concessions on gun control.

But, like a WWE match, they have to make the "fight" appear real. One only needs to know where Donald Trump stands, historically, on gun control not to understand that the building of the wall is about to come at an expense of the Second Amendment And WHEN it fails to make a difference, more private deals will be struck until we have no more Rights under a Republican form of government, but only a Democracy that will be ruled by the "legal" foreigners we're allowing to take over in this country.

Brevity is no friend of yours I see.

The subject at hand is a wall. When asked, we give a list of reasons to have a wall. They are legitimate reasons and support the position of doing something to help stop a long ongoing problem.

On the other side of the aisle, you people are arguing for why we should not be trying to solve the problem. You are telling us to leave the problem alone. 20 million illegals? let's make it 40 million by 2025. In other words, do nothing or even enhance the problem.

It's like arguing with a cop over a speeding ticket. The officer can give you reasons and statistics why you are getting a ticket for speeding. And in response, you are trying to tell him all the benefits of having people on the highway driving dangerous speeds. It's really a stupid argument.

In other words we are making an argument why something needs to be done, and you are making an argument why we should allow law breakers to continue breaking our laws. Again, a really stupid argument.

A wall will not stop all illegal immigration no more than a police officer can stop all speeders on the highway. But once word gets out that the officer is there, less people will be speeding on that stretch of highway. This is why the Caravan has not grown. We are not giving into their demands or simply giving them a free pass to roam our country while they wait 3 years for a court hearing. They can't get in......period. And any other people thinking of doing the same thing now realize they will be met with resistance and defeat.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Poor Billy, hundreds of miles have already been put up! Hundreds more on the way.

Listen prick, you're not going to turn this country into East Berlin.

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

They’ll get around your wall.

Also, will it be considered treasonist if in ten years republicans forget about the wall and it starts looking like Swiss cheese?

A wall is and always will be a waste of money. Patrol the fucking border with or without a wall.

This is how we know you won’t defend the wall after you’ve built it. You won’t even patrol the border now. What makes us think you’ll patrol the wall?

Our borders and border patrol is similar to all of us being in a boat with a large hole in it.

Your solution is to keep bailing the water out with a bucket, and ours is plugging the hole and then begin to bail it out.

Your solution will eventually lead to our demise, and ours will fix the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Build a wall on the Canadian border first.

Nobody is building a wall simply because it's a fun thing to do, we want to build a wall to stop a problem. To my knowledge, we don't have much of a problem with Canada to warrant a wall.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It sure is a hell of a lot better plan than closing down the government for a fragment of our federal spending.

It's a plan about a made up issue.

People invading our country is a made up issue? 20 million people here illegally is not an issue? Drug problems in this country are not an issue? 70,000 overdose deaths a year is not an issue?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, you mean like the Democrats are? It's not 50 billion, it's 5.8 billion; less than one-tenth of what we spend on food stamps every single year.

You shutdown the government over this bullshit wall. That's putting America last.

No, allowing these people to come here and destroy our country is putting America last. Protecting our borders is putting Americans first. Please read my sig line.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

More logical than only 10% of the people want the wall even though 95% of the country lives nowhere near it.

"If nobody wanted the wall, the Republican turnout would have been pathetic."

That is a completely illogical and irrational thing to say. The minor bump in republican turnout was more a result of the Kavanaugh hearings than talk about your "Waa Wall".

Yet you have no supporting evidence to your made-up claim. Sure we were pissed about Kavanaugh and what the dirty Democrats tried to do to this honest man, but it's a done issue. The ongoing issue is the wall.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I forgot to adress your comment that they are white people.

First so you know im not white.

Second when we start having the same problem with the northern boarder I would call for the same action.
.

What problem do we have now that we didn't have in 1969 (50 years ago); strictly speaking of the border?

Stagnating wages, increased crime, drug dealing.

Wages have gone up but so has production; purchasing power is about the same as it was in the 60's
We have actually less violent crime
Drug dealing? Really?

Which means wages in real terms have not gone up. We have less total crime, but illegals commit a much larger proportion of it. The same goes for drug dealing.

Strange;

The statistics are from paychecks like most Americans receive. What you guys always say is that they are not paying taxes....so the wage stagnation that occurred is due to reports from paychecks...not the under-the-table payments illegals receive. So they are not part of the equation.

As for Crime, if Illegals were adding to the crime, we'd have more; not less.

As for drug dealing; you may have a point there... However, the demand Americans have for drugs ensures that there will always be a supply. Further, the current real crisis (Opioids) are purchased over the counter by prescription and sold between persons with scripts for the drugs; illegals, legals, martians; doesn't matter.

So what you are saying is that illegals are getting prescription drugs and selling them to other people? How is that so? Did you even read the title of the links I posted just two comments above your post?

 

[Lesh]

Seven friggin posts in a row.

Kinda invested in this boondoggle huh?

It's stupid. It's wayy too expensive...it won't do what it's supposed to do...and it'll probably never get built even if we really wanted to do it

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Seven friggin posts in a row.

Kinda invested in this boondoggle huh?

It's stupid. It's wayy too expensive...it won't do what it's supposed to do...and it'll probably never get built even if we really wanted to do it

And all that is in the hands of Democrats......isn't it?

As has been posted here multiple times, walls do work where incorporated. They've worked here, they've worked in other countries, they work. If they didn't work, nobody would use them.

And if your puppet masters really didn't think they'd work, why are they willing to shutdown the government over it? I mean, if the Democrats wanted a very small amount of money for something we knew would be a failure, the best thing we could do is let them have it. We would be able to use it as a campaign issue for many elections to come.

So why are they fighting so hard against the wall? The truth is, even they know it would work, and that anti-white party wants as many of these people here as they can sneak in.

 

[Slyhunter]

Oh, you mean like the Democrats are? It's not 50 billion, it's 5.8 billion; less than one-tenth of what we spend on food stamps every single year.

You shutdown the government over this bullshit wall. That's putting America last.

Tell that to the Democrats who shut down the government.

 

[danielpalos]

Oh, you mean like the Democrats are? It's not 50 billion, it's 5.8 billion; less than one-tenth of what we spend on food stamps every single year.

You shutdown the government over this bullshit wall. That's putting America last.

Tell that to the Democrats who shut down the government.

there is no express wall building power.

 

[Slyhunter]

Oh, you mean like the Democrats are? It's not 50 billion, it's 5.8 billion; less than one-tenth of what we spend on food stamps every single year.

You shutdown the government over this bullshit wall. That's putting America last.

Tell that to the Democrats who shut down the government.

there is no express wall building power.

Trump was voted in because of the wall, that is building power.

 

[danielpalos]

Oh, you mean like the Democrats are? It's not 50 billion, it's 5.8 billion; less than one-tenth of what we spend on food stamps every single year.

You shutdown the government over this bullshit wall. That's putting America last.

Tell that to the Democrats who shut down the government.

there is no express wall building power.

Trump was voted in because of the wall, that is building power.

We have a Constitution, for a Reason.

 

[Lesh]

Seven friggin posts in a row.

Kinda invested in this boondoggle huh?

It's stupid. It's wayy too expensive...it won't do what it's supposed to do...and it'll probably never get built even if we really wanted to do it

And all that is in the hands of Democrats......isn't it?

As has been posted here multiple times, walls do work where incorporated. They've worked here, they've worked in other countries, they work. If they didn't work, nobody would use them.

And if your puppet masters really didn't think they'd work, why are they willing to shutdown the government over it? I mean, if the Democrats wanted a very small amount of money for something we knew would be a failure, the best thing we could do is let them have it. We would be able to use it as a campaign issue for many elections to come.

So why are they fighting so hard against the wall? The truth is, even they know it would work, and that anti-white party wants as many of these people here as they can sneak in.

Saying "walls work" is just stupid. Will THIS wall work? Can a 2,000 mile long wall be built in the first place without disrupting 3 or 4 states?

Can it be monitored in a way that would make it effective?

What's all this gonna cost?

 

[candycorn]

Then bid on prevailing wage projects and he won't have to worry about other contractors using undocumented workers.

You aren't really expecting me to pretend your reply isn't stupid, are you?

I pretend you're not stupid every day. I'm a pretty good actor.

Too bad you are no good at pretending that you're not stupid.

That was a double negative...dumb ass. LOL

Apparently you believe that makes you look smart.

Wrong, dumbass.

Well it makes you look stupid….

Hey…you gotta be yourself I suppose.

 

[candycorn]

What problem do we have now that we didn't have in 1969 (50 years ago); strictly speaking of the border?

Stagnating wages, increased crime, drug dealing.

Wages have gone up but so has production; purchasing power is about the same as it was in the 60's
We have actually less violent crime
Drug dealing? Really?

Which means wages in real terms have not gone up. We have less total crime, but illegals commit a much larger proportion of it. The same goes for drug dealing.

Strange;

The statistics are from paychecks like most Americans receive. What you guys always say is that they are not paying taxes....so the wage stagnation that occurred is due to reports from paychecks...not the under-the-table payments illegals receive. So they are not part of the equation.

As for Crime, if Illegals were adding to the crime, we'd have more; not less.

As for drug dealing; you may have a point there... However, the demand Americans have for drugs ensures that there will always be a supply. Further, the current real crisis (Opioids) are purchased over the counter by prescription and sold between persons with scripts for the drugs; illegals, legals, martians; doesn't matter.

So what you are saying is that illegals are getting prescription drugs and selling them to other people? How is that so? Did you even read the title of the links I posted just two comments above your post?

No. On both counts. What I said was that Opioids are being traded between people in what we call the “secondary market”. I imagine some illegal aliens are part of that market since these are primarily used for pain medication and it’s a human condition to experience pain. Yes, illegal aliens are actually human beings despite your fear.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

So as an immigration barrier, it’s a bad idea; also in the stark light of the reality that illegal immigration has been largely beneficial to the economy despite the horror stories and cherry picked anecdotes.

Look to the facts from a study, on the cost burdens surrounding illegal immigrants.

“At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion.”

SOURCE: http://www.irli.org/single-post/201...hdeAVrtNyS40I2pyfBq3-Is6deoEFChMaAmJpEALw_wcB

There is no data that supports ”illegal immigrants” in this country as a more cost effective alternative. than putting money into preventing FURTHER illegals from entering this country ... more specifically stronger border security that would include a wall.

We know the current liberal democrats in Washington DC, need help in following and comparing government costs surrounding the issue of illegal immigrants in this country.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The should use the same tactic that Democrats were so proud of when the issue was “government health care”. Only instead of an elderly person on a wheelchair, use an illegal pushing an American citizen off the cliff. Such “drama” would be proven to be just as statistically accurate we im sure.

 

[toobfreak]

Poor Billy, hundreds of miles have already been put up! Hundreds more on the way.

Listen prick, you're not going to turn this country into East Berlin.

Hey Dooshbag, take your strawman argument and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. The Berlin Wall and border security to keep out mere illegal traffic and potential terrorists have nothing in common except in those scrambled eggs you call a "brain." We are far closer to East German without the wall held prisoner of your radical far-Left socialist authoritarian ideology telling us what we will never do.

It's not a matter of what we want, it is a matter of federal responsibility to protect and defend our border and we simply don't have enough people to stand arm to arm across the south to try to physically stop every invader. At least the wall will keep the numbers down to a manageable level. I guarantee you the wall is happening!

 

[candycorn]

So as an immigration barrier, it’s a bad idea; also in the stark light of the reality that illegal immigration has been largely beneficial to the economy despite the horror stories and cherry picked anecdotes.

Look to the facts from a study, on the cost burdens surrounding illegal immigrants.

“At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion.”

SOURCE: http://www.irli.org/single-post/201...hdeAVrtNyS40I2pyfBq3-Is6deoEFChMaAmJpEALw_wcB

There is no data that supports ”illegal immigrants “in this country as more cost effective, than putting money into preventing FURTHER illegals from entering this country ... more specifically stronger border security that would include a wall.

We know the current liberal democrats in Washington DC, need help in following and comparing government costs surrounding the issue of illegal immigrants in this country.

Wow…it’s amazing we were able to grow the largest economy in the history of the known universe, maintain that status for something like 90 years or whatever it is with the border we have. Incredible.

To think, 4 years ago before the blob triggered you dumbasses into being scared of Mexicans, very few of you ever discussed illegal immigration. You guys were scared of Obama taking your guns, Michelle trying to get your kids to eat more healthy foods, and were more scared of black lives matter than Mexicans.

Seriously… below are the pages from around 1/1/2015. How many threads were being discussed about Mexico and this supposed crisis at the border? Hardly any….I didn’t curate the pages, they are just screen caps.







So either we’re not missing the alleged $115B or you guys weren’t too concerned about it enough to muster the energy to start a message board thread about it or some combination of the two.

We grew the greatest society ever with the border being like it was. We’ve maintained it for decades if not over a century. The cheeto shows up and tells you to be afraid and you guys react like you’ve seen a ghost or something.

Smarten up