Why is nobody talking about the illegal imprisonment of Kaci Hickox?

[SwimExpert]

If they have recourse via a court to counteract an illegal quarantine order, then due process is maintained. ONLY if the court review is expedited, say like an arraignment.

Not true. That the courts are available to redress a violation of due process does not disintegrate the violation itself.

 

[Nosmo King]

I'm not endangering innocent people by quarantining them. The danger was in West Africa, not the quarantine.

And not performing due diligence where public health is concerned is criminal. Would you rather stop an Ebola outbreak on board an off shore ship, or in the midst of Brooklyn and Queens? Which way would ultimately be more effective?

Don't confuse the blind uber-liberal left with poignant facts. They'd rather have martial law and whole-city lockdowns...because you know that would restrict less civil liberties than the random nurse or doctor getting 21 days off work to watch TV and read magazines.

I'm a Liberal. Don't muddy this situation with politics. Public health is not a partisan issue.

 

[Two Thumbs]

If she is infected with ebola, and she is contagious, which ebola is, her going out and about with people is attempted murder

And if someone shoots you with a gun, that's murder too. You liberal idiots need to get it through your head that you don't get to shit on the constitution just because you make up some hypothetical bullshit in your fantasy land.

she sneezes it's attempted murder
I carry a gun and shoot it down the street, it's attempted murder

there is no right to intentionally endanger another

 

[mascale]

Only the Ignorant and Uncaring support a quarantine for The Plague with four known U. S. cases, only one of which was lethal. Likely the mortality rate in West Africa comes from the ignorant and uncaring unaware of modern civilization(?). Spirit Healers and Practitioners do not seem to work. Modern methods already work in Nigeria and Senegal.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Maybe not put ebola victims on kitchen-work duty, vomiting into soup--maybe explaining about New Jersey, now run by White Eyes. . .Of Many Herds of Buffalo!)

 

[martybegan]

If they have recourse via a court to counteract an illegal quarantine order, then due process is maintained. ONLY if the court review is expedited, say like an arraignment.

Not true. That the courts are available to redress a violation of due process does not disintegrate the violation itself.

A writer of the volokh conspiracy, a libertarian leaning blog, disagrees.
It depends on the finding of the quarantine to be valid

Constitutional challenge to quarantine unlikely to succeed - The Washington Post

Due process cases are fact specific, and I am not privy to information NJ authorities had before them or their decision-making process. However, it is highly unlikely that she will prevail.

While the Supreme Court has long held quarantines to be constitutional, it has not ruled directly on the scope of permissible quarantines. However, in the famous case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts, the Court did uphold a blanket mandatory vaccination law, under which resisters were put in jail. The principle here is the same as with quarantine – that one’s normal rights to bodily integrity are suspended by a general and serious public need, especially of an epidemiological variety.

Still, in part because quarantines have rarely been imposed since World War II, there is relatively little direct precedent on their permissible scope and circumstances. But a brief review of the cases suggests it extremely difficult to challenge such an action without a clear showing of medical unreasonableness, or discriminatory application. Indeed, I found no cases in which a quarantine has been lifted due process grounds (though there have been some successful challenges to conditions of quarantine).

One case upholding a quarantine has facts that look strikingly like Hickox’s. In U.S. ex rel Siegel v. Shinnick, 219 F.Supp. 789 (E.D. NY 1963), the plaintiff was confined for 14 days on her return from a “smallpox infected area” abroad, despite a lack of any evidence of direct exposure or symptoms. The court upheld the action, noting:

[The] judgment required is that of a public health officer and not of a lawyer used to insist on positive evidence to support action; their task is to measure risk to the public and to seek for what can reassure and, not finding it, to proceed reasonably to make the public health secure. They deal in a terrible context and the consequences of mistaken indulgence can be irretrievably tragic. To supercede their judgment there must be a reliable showing of error.

 

[SwimExpert]

Don't confuse the blind uber-liberal left with poignant facts. They'd rather have martial law and whole-city lockdowns...because you know that would restrict less civil liberties than the random nurse or doctor getting 21 days off work to watch TV and read magazines.

Are you kidding me? You're the one supporting imprisonment of people with no probable cause whatsoever, and you want to talk about martial law?

 

[peach174]

Her name is Kaci Hickox.

Her name is Kaci Hickox.

Her name is Kaci Hickox.

In life, members of project America have names. Her name is Kaci Hickox.

Members of project America also have rights. They have the right to move about and live their lives without the government arbitrarily arresting and imprisoning them without good cause. Or, as a wiser man once said: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. So why is nobody talking about Kaci Hickox? Why has nobody objected? Why is it that no one has blinked an eye? That Kaci Hickox can be arrested and imprisoned without warrant, without probable cause, without so much as a sneeze or even a whisper is testament of the power of Ebola fever--that most dangerous of diseases whereby fear dissolves all reason and love for liberty.

This is the United States of goddamned America! Is there none left who cherish their liberty?

Not one false conservative who claims to abhor over intrusive government has said a thing. Nor one Democrat who allege to stand guard against abuses the states may make against the principles of our federal protections. None can seem to give care of what this portends of the freedom of every single citizen. I challenge you now, look upon the face of Kaci Hickox and ignore this travesty of justice.

They have the right to move about and live their lives without the government arbitrarily arresting and imprisoning them without good cause.

I think I've discovered the source of your confusion.

Was she put in hand cuffs and read her rights?
Was she put in a jail cell?
No to both questions, so no she was not arrested nor was she imprisoned.
Being quarantined is not being imprisoned.
Legal Authorities for Isolation and Quarantine Quarantine CDC

Federal Law
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Federal isolation and quarantine are authorized for these communicable diseases:

• Cholera
• Diphtheria
• Infectious tuberculosis
• Plague
• Smallpox
• Yellow fever
• Viral hemorrhagic fevers
• Severe acute respiratory syndromes
• Flu that can cause a pandemic

Federal isolation and quarantine are authorized by Executive Order of the President. The President can revise this list by Executive Order.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.
The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

State, Local, and Tribal Law
States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.
These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.
Tribes also have police power authority to take actions that promote the health, safety, and welfare of their own tribal members. Tribal health authorities may enforce their own isolation and quarantine laws within tribal lands, if such laws exist.

 

[martybegan]

Christie messed with the wrong nurse. She wasn't a pushover.

The quarantine of ANY health care worker coming home from saving lives is not necessary. It is nutter freakout only.

BTW...the death rate Americans contracting ebola and getting care in the US is 0%. It is 12.5% if you include Michael Duncan.

Cuomo enacted the same procedures, the only difference is Christie got to enact his first. Is Cuomo a nutter?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Christie messed with the wrong nurse. She wasn't a pushover.

The quarantine of ANY health care worker coming home from saving lives is not necessary. It is nutter freakout only.

BTW...the death rate Americans contracting ebola and getting care in the US is 0%. It is 12.5% if you include Michael Duncan.

Cuomo enacted the same procedures, the only difference is Christie got to enact his first. Is Cuomo a nutter?

Christie isn't a nutter. He's a politician who thinks nutters will help him become POTUS someday.

Cuomo never forced anyone into quarantine. His plan is to have people self quarantine.

Now......faced with an articulate and feisty nurse in a tent...Christie followed Cuomo's lead.

Watch Quinn and Scott do the same.

 

[SwimExpert]

she sneezes it's attempted murder
I carry a gun and shoot it down the street, it's attempted murder

there is no right to intentionally endanger another

Lunacy. Pure lunacy. BTW, in case you still haven't gotten the memo.....she doesn't have Ebola. There was never anything to suggest she does. Imprisoning her is no different than imprisoning you for owning a gun. You know, just in case you shoot someone.

 

[SwimExpert]

Was she put in hand cuffs and read her rights?

And why does that matter? Being handcuffed and read your rights does not define being seized. Go read some case law and educate yourself.

Was she put in a jail cell?

Yes. A place of confinement does not need to be "officially" labeled as such in order for it to be such.

No to both questions, so no she was not arrested nor was she imprisoned.

Only to ignorant big government loving leftist loons.

Legal Authorities for Isolation and Quarantine Quarantine CDC

So, just because the government does it, it's constitutional? Are you seriously trying to say that forcibly holding a person against their will without probable cause is constitutional simply because you call it a quarantine?

 

[Nosmo King]

Don't confuse the blind uber-liberal left with poignant facts. They'd rather have martial law and whole-city lockdowns...because you know that would restrict less civil liberties than the random nurse or doctor getting 21 days off work to watch TV and read magazines.

Are you kidding me? You're the one supporting imprisonment of people with no probable cause whatsoever, and you want to talk about martial law?

Hold on there Captain Hyperbole. Imprisonment does not equal quarantine. Not by a long shot. And probable cause? How about 'probably, this person is infected with a deadly virus that could cause the deaths of thousands'?

Public health risks should be taken seriously. The cost of fighting a preventable Ebola outbreak would be staggering. Public officials must take due diligence to protect their citizens.

Once public officials ignore the problem, there will certainly be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over the 'lack of response' and' inept handling' of a crisis.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

These docs and nurses that go to Africa to engage in the Ebola fight, have got to realize the responsibility they have coming home.
It's wonderful they are willing to take this kind of risk to help others, but that doesn't mean they do not have to make sacrifices when they return.
There's simply to much public risk to allow these people to resume their lives as normal, until sufficient precautions have been taken.

 

[martybegan]

Christie messed with the wrong nurse. She wasn't a pushover.

The quarantine of ANY health care worker coming home from saving lives is not necessary. It is nutter freakout only.

BTW...the death rate Americans contracting ebola and getting care in the US is 0%. It is 12.5% if you include Michael Duncan.

Cuomo enacted the same procedures, the only difference is Christie got to enact his first. Is Cuomo a nutter?

Christie isn't a nutter. He's a politician who thinks nutters will help him become POTUS someday.

Cuomo never forced anyone into quarantine. His plan is to have people self quarantine.

Now......faced with an articulate and feisty nurse in a tent...Christie followed Cuomo's lead.

Watch Quinn and Scott do the same.

If he never planned quarantines like Christies, then why did he have to change the policy to this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html?_r=0

Facing fierce resistance from the White House and medical experts to a strict new mandatory quarantine policy, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomosaid on Sunday night that medical workers who had contact with Ebola patients in West Africa but did not show symptoms of the disease would be allowed to remain at home and would receive compensation for lost income.

Mr. Cuomo’s decision capped a frenzied weekend of behind-the-scenes pleas from administration officials, who urged him and Gov.Chris Christie of New Jersey to reconsider the mandatory quarantine they had announced on Friday. Aides to President Obama also asked other governors and mayors to follow a policy based on science, seeking to stem a steady movement toward more stringent measures in recent days at the state level.

I await your next attempt at spin.

 

[martybegan]

These docs and nurses that go to Africa to engage in the Ebola fight, have got to realize the responsibility they have coming home.
It's wonderful they are willing to take this kind of risk to help others, but that doesn't mean they do not have to make sacrifices when they return.
There's simply to much public risk to allow these people to resume their lives as normal, until sufficient precautions have been taken.

One has to remember, that when it comes to their own health, Doctors make terrible patients, same as other medical professionals. They let their own judgement and knowledge override any protocols developed, i.e. the guy in Brooklyn.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

TV news just said she's scheduled to be discharged from isolation/quarantine today.

Problem solved.. let the lawsuits begin.

 

[martybegan]

TV news just said she's scheduled to be discharged from isolation/quarantine today.

Problem solved.. let the lawsuits begin.

The dispute may be solved, but the actual problem won't be until she passes the incubation period.

 

[SwimExpert]

Hold on there Captain Hyperbole. Imprisonment does not equal quarantine. Not by a long shot.

Calling it a different name does not change what it is.

And probable cause? How about 'probably, this person is infected with a deadly virus that could cause the deaths of thousands'?

But there has never been any indication of that! You say "probably" when it is not true! Just you saying something is probable does not make it probable. There has never been anything to support a claim that "probably Kaci Hickox is infected with Ebola."

Public health risks should be taken seriously. The cost of fighting a preventable Ebola outbreak would be staggering. Public officials must take due diligence to protect their citizens.

Once public officials ignore the problem, there will certainly be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over the 'lack of response' and' inept handling' of a crisis.

So violating people's constitutional rights is now "due diligence"? My God, the love of big government in today's America is sickening.

 

[LoneLaugher]

When will you chicken shit losers learn that one is not able to transmit the virus until one is noticeably.....visibly.....definitely......VERY FUCKING SICK ?

That nurse....having no symptoms of the virus....could spit into your mouth and not infect you with Ebola. That doctor in NY......he could have pissed in your beer at the bowling alley and then threw it into your face.....and you'd not get sick. He wasn't symptomatic yet. He wasn't endangering anyone.

Every American who has contracted this virus has done so while tending to violently ill people........as they were dying of the disease.

Michael Duncan's family.....the doctors and nurses who treated him before he was diagnosed.....every person he met before he was diagnosed.....all virus free.

Some of you are stupid. Others are politically motivated. Either way....it's not helping.

 

[Nosmo King]

Hold on there Captain Hyperbole. Imprisonment does not equal quarantine. Not by a long shot.

Calling it a different name does not change what it is.

And probable cause? How about 'probably, this person is infected with a deadly virus that could cause the deaths of thousands'?

But there has never been any indication of that! You say "probably" when it is not true! Just you saying something is probable does not make it probable. There has never been anything to support a claim that "probably Kaci Hickox is infected with Ebola."

Public health risks should be taken seriously. The cost of fighting a preventable Ebola outbreak would be staggering. Public officials must take due diligence to protect their citizens.

Once public officials ignore the problem, there will certainly be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over the 'lack of response' and' inept handling' of a crisis.

So violating people's constitutional rights is now "due diligence"? My God, the love of big government in today's America is sickening.

One does not have a constitutional right to be 'Patient X'.

Her quarantine is NOT POLITICAL. It's practical in the face of a deadly plague.