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We've discussed this before. Such a joke the Pope saying Priests can forgive women who have had abortions. Guess what? They can get forgiveness on their own!
CNN Headline = Pope Francis to allow priests to forgive abortion
Priests don't forgive sins (and neither does the Pope) - if you don't like the verbiage, take it up with CNN!
Already responded to this. Any Bishop could (and many already had these many years past) authorized priests in their diocese to absolve the sin of abortion and thus provide reinstatement to the Catholic Church, without the woman having to see her Bishop.
I am sure many people would support people baptizing themselves, ordaining themselves, declaring themselves married, and forgiving themselves. In the Catholic Church people don't have to imagine forgiveness. They can hear it from those ordained to pronounce the forgiveness of sins. Sin is not just between an individual and God. It affects the entire community, just as does a baptism, a wedding, or a priest being ordained.
Monkeys deciding the Divine worth of other Monkeys seems like a recipe for corruption... `
It is the difficulty Christians must face when attempting to explain the Trinity. First, it is a mystery we don't quite understand, a being we cannot quite comprehend.
One question. Aside from the irrefutable fact that the trinity contradicts the teaching of the entire OT, the belief of Jesus, and the authors of the NT, that God is one, incorporeal, and has no equal....
How is even possible to believe in something that you don't understand and can't explain rationally?
When God appeared to Moses he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” it did not imply that there were three gods, but one God that revealed himself in person three different times to three different people.
When it is said of God that he is almighty, loving, and benevolent it does not mean that he is three being in one person either.
If the trinity cannot be explained or comprehended, what is it that you believe if not a fantasy?
One question. Aside from the irrefutable fact that the trinity contradicts the teaching of the entire OT, the belief of Jesus, and the authors of the NT, that God is one, incorporeal, and has no equal....
How is even possible to believe in something that you don't understand and can't explain rationally?
When God appeared to Moses he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” it did not imply that there were three gods, but one God that revealed himself in person three different times to three different people.
When it is said of God that he is almighty, loving, and benevolent it does not mean that he is three being in one person either.
If the trinity cannot be explained or comprehended, what is it that you believe if not a fantasy?
When God appeared to Moses, is it believed that God was limiting Himself to that one place, one sound? Or, was He still the Infinite Being able to remain in other places and do other things as well? Yet, was God's word a viable force before Moses?
When the Old Testament references the Spirit of God (Job, "The Spirit of God has made me..." and Genesis "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh...") this spirit is surely more powerful than any spirit of man (which does not go forth from a man) but it is recorded that "My spirit" seems to go forth from God.
God is not a fantasy, so no, I do not believe in a fantasy. I do, however, have this fierce desire to understand God to my own small capacity. This entails striving to envision God living, not only beyond the confines of a body, but having an infinite existence (in both time and space) every single moment.
God said, "I am who I am." Okay, but who is that? It is Creator, it is Word, it is Spirit--which by the way is a pretty good description of the human being. Only in humans, all three are contained by the parameters of the human body. Trinity is a way of viewing an unconfined God in an unconfined existence. It reminds us God has no limits.
No it is not believed that by God appearing to Moses he limited himself to one place or sound but whenever or wherever God appears it is the same being and not some other coequal entity that cannot be God if the teaching of the Torah is true.
That God is spirit precludes the possibility that Jesus was equal to God. Jesus said that God was the source of his being. Any being that owes its existence to God cannot be God anymore than the spirit of God in man makes any other man God.
You may claim to believe in God but if what you believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence then what you believe in is a fantasy, a false image that is not God.
God may have no limits but according to scripture God is incorporeal, has no equal and there is no other god either above or below him.
If that is true then Jesus was not God even if he was the expected Messiah and there is no such thing as three coequal gods in one trinity much less could God or spiritual life from God ever be handed out like a cheap snack food that is made by human hands and then eaten by humans.
Thats the way the cookie crumbles.
You are just wrong. You have made great errors in your speculations.
Is that too hard for such a devout believer to believe?
No it is not believed that by God appearing to Moses he limited himself to one place or sound but whenever or wherever God appears it is the same being and not some other coequal entity that cannot be God if the teaching of the Torah is true.
That God is spirit precludes the possibility that Jesus was equal to God. Jesus said that God was the source of his being. Any being that owes its existence to God cannot be God anymore than the spirit of God in man makes any other man God.
You may claim to believe in God but if what you believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence then what you believe in is a fantasy, a false image that is not God.
God may have no limits but according to scripture God is incorporeal, has no equal and there is no other god either above or below him.
If that is true then Jesus was not God even if he was the expected Messiah and there is no such thing as three coequal gods in one trinity much less could God or spiritual life from God ever be handed out like a cheap snack food that is made by human hands and then eaten by humans.
Thats the way the cookie crumbles.
You are just wrong. You have made great errors in your speculations.
Is that too hard for such a devout believer to believe?
From what I see in this post, my post was not at all understood. Nor is the Trinity three co-equal gods, a fact that should have been apparent in my post.
No matter how you rationalize away your error, if scripture is true, God is one and the trinity by definition is not one and therefore cannot be God.
No matter how you rationalize away your error, if scripture is true, God is one and the trinity by definition is not one and therefore cannot be God.
You are having trouble with "Trinity" a word chosen, not the actuality. Think of Trinity as a single model of a single, unique being. We see God working in three ways that are unique when those three ways are compared to a human model. In humans, creativity, words, and spirit are within the model. With God: Creativity, Words, and Spirit of this single being are all working outside any containment. One God.
2 Corinthians 4:4
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Don't expect to get far in a discussion with a non-believer or explain your salvation experience or your faith, they are incapable of understanding.
2 Corinthians 4:4
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Don't expect to get far in a discussion with a non-believer or explain your salvation experience or your faith, they are incapable of understanding.
I have to respectfully disagree with you Bonzi. Sure there are some who flat out don't understand it at all, but there are many atheists who understand it prefectly, they just disagree. Think of it like this...you know all those dip shit liberals who claim that the world's problems exist because different cultures simply don't understand each other and the whole shit storm is just a big error in communication? They overlook something very important....it's not that different nations don't understand each other, it's that they understand each other perfectly and they disagree.
I have to say, I know many people of several different faiths who have no clue what their own religion is all about. Just today I had to correct Spinster, as a singular example, because she was making claims about the Bible and Christianity that were so completely incorrect as to be laughable and she was doing so as a Christian trying to educate non-Christians. My forehead has become far more flat because of people like her.
Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean you don't comprehend it.. I understand the liberal point of view on taxation and the minimum wage perfectly. There is NO misunderstanding or failure to grasp their point. I just disagree with them. Same concept.
2 Corinthians 4:4
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Don't expect to get far in a discussion with a non-believer or explain your salvation experience or your faith, they are incapable of understanding.
Please explain or cite an example2 Corinthians 4:4
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Don't expect to get far in a discussion with a non-believer or explain your salvation experience or your faith, they are incapable of understanding.
I grew up in the faith and am well versed in the beliefs. They aren't logically coherent and most Christians can't rationally articulate their own views.
Please explain or cite an example2 Corinthians 4:4
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Don't expect to get far in a discussion with a non-believer or explain your salvation experience or your faith, they are incapable of understanding.
I grew up in the faith and am well versed in the beliefs. They aren't logically coherent and most Christians can't rationally articulate their own views.
Or when someone asks something and you say they wouldn't understand. Or when people ask why a person doesn't adhere to this or that, and they come up with some lame excuse that doesn't even really make sense. A lot of people pick and choose what they want to believe and follow and what they don't want to believe and follow. It depends on whether or not it is convenient to them at the time. I'm sure if I felt like doing a bit of looking around this section of the forum, I could find other examples too. You're welcome!
