Why People Make Minimum Wage

[martybegan]

LOL.

I made minimum wage for a total of 6 months. $4.25 an hour.
After 6 months, he bumped me up to $4.75 an hour, and eventually $6.00 an hour. All of this before I turned 19 years old.

He realized I was a good worker, and bumped me up to make sure I didn't leave for something else.

I've worked in factories where after 6 months you got a dime raise so in a year you'd be making an extra $8 every 40 hours. The owner told me and my brother we should quit school and just come work for him. My brother is now the VP of a company and I don't do so bad myself.

Yes. The key is you didn't make that entry level position your career (and neither did your brother).

 

[Asclepias]

LOL.

I made minimum wage for a total of 6 months. $4.25 an hour.
After 6 months, he bumped me up to $4.75 an hour, and eventually $6.00 an hour. All of this before I turned 19 years old.

He realized I was a good worker, and bumped me up to make sure I didn't leave for something else.

I've worked in factories where after 6 months you got a dime raise so in a year you'd be making an extra $8 every 40 hours. The owner told me and my brother we should quit school and just come work for him. My brother is now the VP of a company and I don't do so bad myself.

I remember getting out of the military and going to work on my first full time job at $10 an hour. I thought I hit the lotto! It wasnt until I found out that the people that had been working there for 20 plus years were making $15 an hour that my spider sense told me something was wrong with this picture.

 

[SAYIT]

Each time you failed, how did you pay your rent, car payment, healthcare bills, food, other bills immediately after the failure was realized?

In each situation, what did you do the next day after you failed? Did you immediately have another job? Not everyone is that good/lucky. In a good economy there would be plenty of jobs and no one who's looking would be out of work for more than a couple months. Another problem is corporations aren't hiring the unemployed.

Anyways, I don't want to get off topic. When you failed, did you have a nest egg to fall back on? Not everyone has one of those either.

And many who have no rainy-day fund - as you noted yesterday - smoke cigarettes and have pets and yet despite recognizing that their poor choices are often to blame for their financial plight you still would require the rest of us to pitch in to support them when inevitably their rainy day comes.
Typical loony leftist "thinking."
Here's a clue: Almost everyone gets hit by a storm or two (or twelve).
Here's another piece for your puzzle: Neither corporations nor our gov't is your mommy or your personal cash trough. Get off your butt and help pull the train. There's plenty of truly needy aboard who need our help.

If you don't see the value in your government, I challenge you to move to Mexico and show us how you can become a success when your government is worthless.

That's quite a leap. I neither said nor inferred that our gov't has no value. I said gov't isn't your mommy and to quit expecting the rest of us - through gov't confiscation and redistribution of private wealth - to fix what is wrong with YOU and YOUR life, ya whiny sniveling mutt.

 

[sealybobo]

Did you ever grow up in the hood with one crack head baby mamma raising you? Then shut up.

Even if you were and you made it out you are the exception not the norm.

Your childhood and the neighborhood you live in dictates what choices you have. Also you need to catch a break somewhere along the way. Most white people don't realize they got their first job because someone they knew recommended them or they got into college because they went to a good school not an inner city ghetto school.

People like Zander dont get this stuff. You are wasting your time. Its unfair but you simply have to be better than those that have a headstart and benefit from privilege. Its evident to people that grow up under challenging circumstances but most people dont seem to be able to get it.

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

You were broke but the opportunities were out there. I'm not saying there are no opportunities, just that there are a whole lot less opportunities.

I too paid for my own college. Only cost $5K a year back then. Another advantage you and I had that the generation today does not.

You also have to realize that not everyone has your dream. My dad was an immigrant who was a cook. He got lucky and got into Ford and 30 years later he has 2 homes, $600K and good healthcare benefits. I want these kinds of opportunities so that more Americans can experience the American dream. The GOP way the CEO lives he dream and the workers work till they are 70 years old IF THEY ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO FIND OR KEEP A JOB THAT LONG OF COURSE, and then die broke because healthcare eats up their savings with co pays and deductibles and shitty Medicare.

There are lots of opportunities. You just have to change your mindset so you can see them. The biggest issues I see with people is they get pigeonholed in to thinking things should be "this way" and that they get comfortable and do not plan the next step in case things do change. Its called adapting. You have to do it or you die.

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

 

[SAYIT]

Sorry pal, but I have to lump you all together. You may not be the kind of republican who wants to privatize everything and even sell our National Parks to private owners, but that is what your party wants.

You may not deny global warming or want to ban abortion, but your party does. So I don't need to know what each and every one of you believes. I know what "YOU ALL" believe. Who gives a fuck about little old you ...

Clearly you don't "give a fuck" about anyone but yourself and only seem happy when whining.
Just an aside: I'm not your pal and your incessant complaining would drive anyone batshit crazy. You're like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Clearly I give a fuck about every citizen in our entire country and you only care about yourself.

Typical conservative. No other explanation.

Typical whiny, sniveling, at-the-trough lefties. No other explanation.

We don't expect you to get it.

 

[Asclepias]

People like Zander dont get this stuff. You are wasting your time. Its unfair but you simply have to be better than those that have a headstart and benefit from privilege. Its evident to people that grow up under challenging circumstances but most people dont seem to be able to get it.

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

There are lots of opportunities. You just have to change your mindset so you can see them. The biggest issues I see with people is they get pigeonholed in to thinking things should be "this way" and that they get comfortable and do not plan the next step in case things do change. Its called adapting. You have to do it or you die.

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

Thats not my new america. Thats always been the case. If an employer is forced to cross a certain line in his profit margin you will lose your job and other workers will have to take on additional "duties as assigned". The other option is that they fold up shop entirely and everyone is out of work. Employers hire the least expense capable employees. if they can combine the jobs of 2 people into 1 and pay less money you better believe they are going to do it. I dont hate raising the minimum wage. I think its a bad idea for people mentally. There is no initiative for upward mobility. To me its worse than welfare because you are paying people more than what they are worth and not calling it welfare.

 

[SAYIT]

People like Zander dont get this stuff. You are wasting your time. Its unfair but you simply have to be better than those that have a headstart and benefit from privilege. Its evident to people that grow up under challenging circumstances but most people dont seem to be able to get it.

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

There are lots of opportunities. You just have to change your mindset so you can see them. The biggest issues I see with people is they get pigeonholed in to thinking things should be "this way" and that they get comfortable and do not plan the next step in case things do change. Its called adapting. You have to do it or you die.

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

It isn't the gov'ts responsibility to determine what is a fair wage. The market - supply and demand for labor - sets wages and fairness is rarely part of the equation. Most of us by adulthood realize "fair" is a childish concept. You consistently whine like a 4 year old ("that's not fair").
I am shocked that anyone could whine so persistently.

 

[sealybobo]

The GOP way the CEO lives he dream and the workers work till they are 70 years old IF THEY ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO FIND OR KEEP A JOB THAT LONG OF COURSE, and then die broke because healthcare eats up their savings with co pays and deductibles and shitty Medicare.

"Shitty Medicare?" Really? For those of us who paid for private coverage (or, at times, went without and paid for healthcare out-of-pocket) Medicare is like manna from heaven. You really have been spoiled by virtue of having played the system (read: the rest of us) and are reduced to whining about the free stuff you get. Pathetic.

Medicare isn't what it once was. I noticed the costs were a lot more when my mom got sick 10 years after my grandma got sick. The out of pockets, deductables and costs went up. So how much will they go up by the time you and I retire? The rich don't want to chip in so we have a strong ss. They have their own private healthcare. That's why we have a progressive tax system or at least once did. Today the rich don't pay their fair share. i think that has been clearly proven just like global warming has so I'm sure you'll argue.

 

[sealybobo]

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

Thats not my new america. Thats always been the case. If an employer is forced to cross a certain line in his profit margin you will lose your job and other workers will have to take on additional "duties as assigned". The other option is that they fold up shop entirely and everyone is out of work. Employers hire the least expense capable employees. if they can combine the jobs of 2 people into 1 and pay less money you better believe they are going to do it. I dont hate raising the minimum wage. I think its a bad idea for people mentally. There is no initiative for upward mobility. To me its worse than welfare because you are paying people more than what they are worth and not calling it welfare.

I worked for a family where the owner and his son had to make their $700K a month EACH. If sales slipped and it was going to go down to $600K a month they let a bunch of people go and as soon as sales went back up they just hired new employees.

I don't say there should be anything illegal about that. But now what about the asshole companies all across America who aren't hiring people who are out of work?

 

[sealybobo]

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

It isn't the gov'ts responsibility to determine what is a fair wage. The market - supply and demand for labor - sets wages and fairness is rarely part of the equation. Most of us by adulthood realize "fair" is a childish concept. You consistently whine like a 4 year old ("that's not fair").
I am shocked that anyone could whine so persistently.

Bullshit. Clearly we can't trust unregulated free market capitalism that much. I know libertards want to try but show me another society that ever tried it and it worked.

I say we tried this with Bush and it failed. But libertards say we didn't go far enough. No thanks retards.

 

[sealybobo]

Republicans want to go from off the road to off the cliff. The more we do the richer they get and the more we allow them to implement policies that help them but hurt us.

For example, right now we give tax breaks to companies that moved their operations overseas. Why are we not taking those away?

 

[Asclepias]

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

Thats not my new america. Thats always been the case. If an employer is forced to cross a certain line in his profit margin you will lose your job and other workers will have to take on additional "duties as assigned". The other option is that they fold up shop entirely and everyone is out of work. Employers hire the least expense capable employees. if they can combine the jobs of 2 people into 1 and pay less money you better believe they are going to do it. I dont hate raising the minimum wage. I think its a bad idea for people mentally. There is no initiative for upward mobility. To me its worse than welfare because you are paying people more than what they are worth and not calling it welfare.

I worked for a family where the owner and his son had to make their $700K a month EACH. If sales slipped and it was going to go down to $600K a month they let a bunch of people go and as soon as sales went back up they just hired new employees.

I don't say there should be anything illegal about that. But now what about the asshole companies all across America who aren't hiring people who are out of work?

You are starting to see the light. They dont intend to hire the people back because they are doing fine with the employees that took on additional duties. What you may want to look for is businesses hiring more people once the current POTUS leaves office out of spite.

 

[sealybobo]

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

It isn't the gov'ts responsibility to determine what is a fair wage. The market - supply and demand for labor - sets wages and fairness is rarely part of the equation. Most of us by adulthood realize "fair" is a childish concept. You consistently whine like a 4 year old ("that's not fair").
I am shocked that anyone could whine so persistently.

Article Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class OpEdNews

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

Which explains why conservative economics wiped out the middle class during the period from 1880 to 1932, and why, when Reagan again began applying conservative economics, the middle class again began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that has dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

 

[SAYIT]

The GOP way the CEO lives he dream and the workers work till they are 70 years old IF THEY ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO FIND OR KEEP A JOB THAT LONG OF COURSE, and then die broke because healthcare eats up their savings with co pays and deductibles and shitty Medicare.

"Shitty Medicare?" Really? For those of us who paid for private coverage (or, at times, went without and paid for healthcare out-of-pocket) Medicare is like manna from heaven. You really have been spoiled by virtue of having played the system (read: the rest of us) and are reduced to whining about the free stuff you get. Pathetic.

Medicare isn't what it once was. I noticed the costs were a lot more when my mom got sick 10 years after my grandma got sick. The out of pockets, deductables and costs went up. So how much will they go up by the time you and I retire? The rich don't want to chip in so we have a strong ss. They have their own private healthcare. That's why we have a progressive tax system or at least once did. Today the rich don't pay their fair share. i think that has been clearly proven just like global warming has so I'm sure you'll argue.

Good God! More whining! Once more for the terminally dense leftist: Life isn't all about YOU. The "rich" are not responsible for fixing what is wrong with YOU and YOUR life.
Many millions of us know the joy of having our medical bills paid by Medicare ... extended retirement INSURANCE most beneficiaries paid for during our working years and I AM retired and find the fact that what I paid for all of my 45 working years actually works. WooHoo!

 

[Asclepias]

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

Thats not my new america. Thats always been the case. If an employer is forced to cross a certain line in his profit margin you will lose your job and other workers will have to take on additional "duties as assigned". The other option is that they fold up shop entirely and everyone is out of work. Employers hire the least expense capable employees. if they can combine the jobs of 2 people into 1 and pay less money you better believe they are going to do it. I dont hate raising the minimum wage. I think its a bad idea for people mentally. There is no initiative for upward mobility. To me its worse than welfare because you are paying people more than what they are worth and not calling it welfare.

I worked for a family where the owner and his son had to make their $700K a month EACH. If sales slipped and it was going to go down to $600K a month they let a bunch of people go and as soon as sales went back up they just hired new employees.

I don't say there should be anything illegal about that. But now what about the asshole companies all across America who aren't hiring people who are out of work?

"Sales slipping" can be roughly translated to "expenses increasing" like raising minimum wage would be labeled..

 

[sealybobo]

No, i get it. It's people like you who don't get it.

I started with nothing. No special preferences or handouts. No grants or food stamps. No help from the government. Just hard work and a good attitude. I've been financially independent since my 30's. It wasn't easy, but it is simple.

In the USA anyone can become financially independent. But it is a lot easier to bitch about "race" and "privilege" than it is to take action.

No. Its pretty evident you dont get it. You started with white skin in a society where all the jobs and resources are owned by white people. If nothing else you at least had that. All you have to do is clean up a little and you fit right in. People of color have institutional racism working against them from the time they hit the school systems. By the time they reach graduation they have effectively been sent the message that they are an afterthought in society. Must make for great morale right? If all you had to do was just go out and make it happen then there would be more success stories. People of color have to fight off the effects of racism, develop the mindset that nothing is going to be able to hold them back, then go out and do it. They have an extra step or two before they can start from the spot a typical white person has from birth.

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".

So every worker in America should go home tonight and start planning their business venture? How many of them do you think will fail?

I imagine the GOP dream every home is also a business. One home on the block sells food. One sells haircuts. One sells cars. Actually, you need to 2 of everything because competition is important. Anyways, this isn't reality. We have the masses who need work or need to be employed. Not everyone is going to own a business and the world needs ditch diggers. Ever hear that saying?

Many will fail. The typical business owner fails I believe 7 times before making it work. Failure is part of life. We are taught to work for scraps because we are taught that failure is a bad thing. So we settle for what the employer tells us our worth is. The thing I teach my kids is that I dont mind if they fail at something. I will be disappointed if they quit or do not give it their best effort.

I agree the world needs ditch diggers but why not make it your business or even one of your businesses instead of working for someone? If the ditch diggers contracted themselves out they would control their destiny. The tax benefits alone are worth it.

Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

Thats not my new america. Thats always been the case. If an employer is forced to cross a certain line in his profit margin you will lose your job and other workers will have to take on additional "duties as assigned". The other option is that they fold up shop entirely and everyone is out of work. Employers hire the least expense capable employees. if they can combine the jobs of 2 people into 1 and pay less money you better believe they are going to do it. I dont hate raising the minimum wage. I think its a bad idea for people mentally. There is no initiative for upward mobility. To me its worse than welfare because you are paying people more than what they are worth and not calling it welfare.

Fix the economy and then everything goes back to normal. How do you fix the economy? We have to get more hands back into the hands of the masses.

You fucking hypocritical Republicans get it but you pretend you don't. I'll give you an example of how you get it but want to pretend you don't. George Bush got it anyways. He was headed for a recession TWICE and each time to not be in an official recession, he mailed your sorry ass $300. What did everyone do? They went out and spent it. So you righties understand that the masses need more money, they just don't want to give the money they stole in the 2007 crash back. I say we take that and all the money Haloburton stole from us too. Remember they said oil would pay for the Iraq war? Of course you don't remember. You remember those as the good old fucking days when your boy Bush was in charge.

Clearly you aren't rich enough to be a righty so are you dumb?

 

[martybegan]

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive.

There is another effect. If you have to pay a person $15 for work that is really worth $8, what is going to happen is the people worth $15 per hour will now be availible, and guess who is going to get hired?

Also, if people stop buying twinkies, they go out of business and now those people are making $0 an hour.

 

[sealybobo]

Today I was driving down the road and saw 3 blacks walking down the street. I thought, "oh shit there goes the neighborhood".
Ultimately, there can only be so many ditch digging companies or business owners. And those business owners are probably going to need employees no? Are you talking about a corporation or a mom and pop? Is it asking too much that corporations pay a fair wage? Apparently it is and that is why we have such a long history of unionizing. And for the small business owner who's employees can't unionize, our government sets a minimum wage. Of course the business owners are never going to like it when we raise minimum wage.

Also, we need citizens who can buy your products. If the worker bees can't buy your stuff, who you selling it to?

What to you is a fair wage? Jobs are not made so you can have a fair wage. They are made so that the person who provides those jobs can get wealthy. Business owners are interested in the bottom line. If you choose to remain an employee you will be forever at the mercy of an employer. ork for those that are employed. I would rather pay for people to have welfare to cover the need for more income than raise minimum wage. At least they would know that they need to improve themselves to get that "fair wage" paying job.

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

Jobs might not be made for that purpose but the company does have to give a fair wage. Why? My government says so. Want a government that doesn't say so? Move to China.

And I know business' are only interested in one thing. That's why they should not be owning our government.

So that's your new America? Where employees are "at the mercy" of their employers? Fuck you.

Raising minimum wage doesn't result in less jobs. Employers don't hire people because they are nice. They only hire the number of employees they need, so there goes that argument. And if the employees make a fair wage they might be able to afford your products.

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive. Anyways, occasionally you have to raise the minimum wage. It's why we always do every 10 years or so. Sorry if you hate it. My dad does too. But he doesn't hate it when they increase his ss payments for the same fucking reason. lol

Thats not my new america. Thats always been the case. If an employer is forced to cross a certain line in his profit margin you will lose your job and other workers will have to take on additional "duties as assigned". The other option is that they fold up shop entirely and everyone is out of work. Employers hire the least expense capable employees. if they can combine the jobs of 2 people into 1 and pay less money you better believe they are going to do it. I dont hate raising the minimum wage. I think its a bad idea for people mentally. There is no initiative for upward mobility. To me its worse than welfare because you are paying people more than what they are worth and not calling it welfare.

I worked for a family where the owner and his son had to make their $700K a month EACH. If sales slipped and it was going to go down to $600K a month they let a bunch of people go and as soon as sales went back up they just hired new employees.

I don't say there should be anything illegal about that. But now what about the asshole companies all across America who aren't hiring people who are out of work?

"Sales slipping" can be roughly translated to "expenses increasing" like raising minimum wage would be labeled..

Well sorry the American worker isn't as cheap as the India, Chinese, African or Mexican workers. Just the way it is. We are the greatest country in the world because we pay a decent minimum wage.

A country isn't judged by how things are for it's richest citizens. It's how are the masses doing? Wake up.

 

[sealybobo]

The only argument I'll accept for not raising minimum wage is that the cost of goods and services will just go up. But I can do without the twinkies if they get too expensive.

There is another effect. If you have to pay a person $15 for work that is really worth $8, what is going to happen is the people worth $15 per hour will now be availible, and guess who is going to get hired?

Also, if people stop buying twinkies, they go out of business and now those people are making $0 an hour.

That depends. What is $8 worth in this society? Depends on the cost of living I guess but if our government deems $15 is the new minimum wage and you can't afford to pay that then I guess you go out of business buddy. It may be a free market society but the market is not free. You gotta pay American wages.

 

[SAYIT]

What is a fair wage? What is a fair tax rate? i have a government that decides those things.

It isn't the gov'ts responsibility to determine what is a fair wage. The market - supply and demand for labor - sets wages and fairness is rarely part of the equation. Most of us by adulthood realize "fair" is a childish concept. You consistently whine like a 4 year old ("that's not fair").
I am shocked that anyone could whine so persistently.

Article Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class OpEdNews

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

Which explains why conservative economics wiped out the middle class during the period from 1880 to 1932, and why, when Reagan again began applying conservative economics, the middle class again began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that has dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

And in return for all that gov't (us) provides in the way of a working system is a working populace which provides stability and a specific culture:
Work to get paid, after which the gov't takes some from all, including businesses, in the form of taxes in order to provide all the goodies you named.
Now remove any part of the gov't-business-worker-taxes equation and see how that works for you.

"After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world." - President Calvin Coolidge (address to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, Washington D.C., January 25, 1925)