Why stop at free college?

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are so many scholarships, grants, and loan programs available that few people who are qualified and truly committed cannot attend college because of cost alone.

Most people who drop out of college come to the conclusion - on their own - that it was not the best choice for them.

Then why not consolidate all that into a univeral entitlement?

because that would put too much pressure on high schools and would open it up to widespread corruption....

Most of today's widespread corruption in education is in the for-profit scams.

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Then why not consolidate all that into a univeral entitlement?

because that would put too much pressure on high schools and would open it up to widespread corruption....

Most of today's widespread corruption in education is in the for-profit scams.

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

 

[NYcarbineer]

because that would put too much pressure on high schools and would open it up to widespread corruption....

Most of today's widespread corruption in education is in the for-profit scams.

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

Really? If money is not the issue then why are conservatives constantly begging for school choice vouchers?

 

[Redfish]

"To each according to his need, from each according to his abilities" Marx

Sounds great, but under that system there is no incentive to work, study, invent, or excel. If all you are going to get is what the government decides you "need". then why do anything but sit on your ass, watch TV, screw, and drink beer?

 

[Redfish]

Most of today's widespread corruption in education is in the for-profit scams.

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

Really? If money is not the issue then why are conservatives constantly begging for school choice vouchers?

its not just conservatives, black parents want their kids to be able to go to the best schools too.

 

[Political Junky]

Should we charge people to go to high schools ?

That's not the question. Let's take some more of your logic. Since High Schools are essential to young people, what are your thoughts on food? That's pretty essential, too. Should food be free as well? It'll certainly keep you alive longer than a diploma would.

Honestly, I don't think a high school diploma is absolutely necessary for life. There are plenty of people who are able to provide for themselves without one. The other thing to consider with "diplomas for everyone" is the fact that once everyone gets one they become absolutely worthless. At that point, it does no one absolutely no good at all.

Working to keep Americans dumb.

 

[Redfish]

Should we charge people to go to high schools ?

That's not the question. Let's take some more of your logic. Since High Schools are essential to young people, what are your thoughts on food? That's pretty essential, too. Should food be free as well? It'll certainly keep you alive longer than a diploma would.

Honestly, I don't think a high school diploma is absolutely necessary for life. There are plenty of people who are able to provide for themselves without one. The other thing to consider with "diplomas for everyone" is the fact that once everyone gets one they become absolutely worthless. At that point, it does no one absolutely no good at all.

Working to keep Americans dumb.

the ignorant are easier to control. look at the dem party of today.

 

[Unkotare]

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

Incredibly ill-considered notion.

 

[Political Junky]

Should we charge people to go to high schools ?

That's not the question. Let's take some more of your logic. Since High Schools are essential to young people, what are your thoughts on food? That's pretty essential, too. Should food be free as well? It'll certainly keep you alive longer than a diploma would.

Honestly, I don't think a high school diploma is absolutely necessary for life. There are plenty of people who are able to provide for themselves without one. The other thing to consider with "diplomas for everyone" is the fact that once everyone gets one they become absolutely worthless. At that point, it does no one absolutely no good at all.

Working to keep Americans dumb.

the ignorant are easier to control. look at the dem party of today.

My post was aimed at the poster, and would include most on the Right.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Most of today's widespread corruption in education is in the for-profit scams.

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

Really? If money is not the issue then why are conservatives constantly begging for school choice vouchers?

republicans mostly want it so they can be used to get their kids into religious based schools and out of the government controlled liberal classrooms.
dems mostly want it so the inner city thugs that destroyed the schools in there own districts can then go and destroy the schools in the good districts.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

Really? If money is not the issue then why are conservatives constantly begging for school choice vouchers?

its not just conservatives, black parents want their kids to be able to go to the best schools too.

It's a government handout if you apply conservative 'logic'.

 

[Redfish]

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

Really? If money is not the issue then why are conservatives constantly begging for school choice vouchers?

its not just conservatives, black parents want their kids to be able to go to the best schools too.

It's a government handout if you apply conservative 'logic'.

allowing government school funding to be used at the school of the parent's choice is not a handout. Do you understand the voucher program at all?

 

[bripat9643]

GI bills are earned...don't even go there

I love teasing you lass. Because you totally flip on issues if were talking about the military.

I'm a Navy brat, I know the struggles and sacrifices families go through so yeah I'll stand for them every time. Here is a thought, want a college education get off your ass, enlist and earn one. How's that?

Oh yeah? Hey what's your feeling about gov workers and the benefits they earn? . Say teachers???

Overpaid and incompetent.

Thank you for that uniformed opinion!

When was the last decade you were in a school for more than a student program?

I've had kids in school, and I see what the schools teach: nothing.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

Is that because of the schools or the students?

You can't change the students no matter how much money you throw at the problem. DC has the highest per capita spending per student and they are going right down the drain.

Much of the problem starts at home, and money won't do any good there either.

A couple of years ago I had some punk kid living next door. He was one of the few that had a basketball net setup in his back yard. Every day after school and all summer long, the entire neighborhood ended up here and it was very disturbing.

I can understand a kid or two here and there, but it was well over a dozen kids almost every day and night.

The question I had was why weren't these kids at home studying for school? The answer is simple, the parent(s) didn't care. How much a kid learns was not their problem, it was the schools problem.

same with Baltimore schools, higher per student spending than the counties. (most of the counties) yet their scores alone bring the whole state down. Money is not the answer, never has been, never will be. That has been proven.

Really? If money is not the issue then why are conservatives constantly begging for school choice vouchers?

its not just conservatives, black parents want their kids to be able to go to the best schools too.

It's a government handout if you apply conservative 'logic'.

not really, its basically letting a homeowner use the portion of his tax that goes to school to pay for the child to go to school where they want instead of where they are forced. It sorta balances out.
However, when you give a voucher to someone living in public housing that lives off of the welfare system, then yes, it does become a handout since that person contributes nothing to start with.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

I love teasing you lass. Because you totally flip on issues if were talking about the military.

I'm a Navy brat, I know the struggles and sacrifices families go through so yeah I'll stand for them every time. Here is a thought, want a college education get off your ass, enlist and earn one. How's that?

Oh yeah? Hey what's your feeling about gov workers and the benefits they earn? . Say teachers???

Overpaid and incompetent.

Thank you for that uniformed opinion!

When was the last decade you were in a school for more than a student program?

I've had kids in school, and I see what the schools teach: nothing.

thats not true.
White people are bad. Blacks are good but picked on
rich people are bad, poor people would be rich if only the rich people would let them
Mentioning God will somehow indoctrinate a student into become religious, however teaching that homosexuality is perfectly normal will in no way influence a child.
abstinence will not prevent pregnancy or disease however a blow job is safe.
the schools do teach something.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm a Navy brat, I know the struggles and sacrifices families go through so yeah I'll stand for them every time. Here is a thought, want a college education get off your ass, enlist and earn one. How's that?

Oh yeah? Hey what's your feeling about gov workers and the benefits they earn? . Say teachers???

Overpaid and incompetent.

Thank you for that uniformed opinion!

When was the last decade you were in a school for more than a student program?

I've had kids in school, and I see what the schools teach: nothing.

thats not true.
White people are bad. Blacks are good but picked on
rich people are bad, poor people would be rich if only the rich people would let them
Mentioning God will somehow indoctrinate a student into become religious, however teaching that homosexuality is perfectly normal will in no way influence a child.
abstinence will not prevent pregnancy or disease however a blow job is safe.
the schools do teach something.

I don't count brainwashing with government propaganda as "teaching."

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Oh yeah? Hey what's your feeling about gov workers and the benefits they earn? . Say teachers???

Overpaid and incompetent.

Thank you for that uniformed opinion!

When was the last decade you were in a school for more than a student program?

I've had kids in school, and I see what the schools teach: nothing.

thats not true.
White people are bad. Blacks are good but picked on
rich people are bad, poor people would be rich if only the rich people would let them
Mentioning God will somehow indoctrinate a student into become religious, however teaching that homosexuality is perfectly normal will in no way influence a child.
abstinence will not prevent pregnancy or disease however a blow job is safe.
the schools do teach something.

I don't count brainwashing with government propaganda as "teaching."

Thats because you are not a liberal and dont understand the race based curriculum.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There are so many scholarships, grants, and loan programs available that few people who are qualified and truly committed cannot attend college because of cost alone.

Most people who drop out of college come to the conclusion - on their own - that it was not the best choice for them.

Then why not consolidate all that into a univeral entitlement?

because that would put too much pressure on high schools and would open it up to widespread corruption....

Most of today's widespread corruption in education is in the for-profit scams.

If college were 'free' to all, paid for by taxes, restricted to schools willing to accept restraints on their costs in exchange for government funded tuition,

much of all the other money that has to go into college tuition now, from grants, to scholarships, to financial aid, etc., etc.,
would no longer be needed. That's the beneficial tradeoff.

Plus, if all students, otherwise eligible, are entitled to it, no one can complain that 'free' college is just one more bennie for the poor.

That last statement is very important.
all students are eligible. This means that a child who's parents have a net worth of a few million is just as eligible as the student who's parents are behind on all their bills. Family income can not play a part in this.

But then we are right back where we started, the wealthy students get the best pre-college education and would get the most scholarships. We need somehow to make education in the pre-college schools more equal. A student that begins his or her education in some school districts has little chance of college and perhaps even of high school. There is something dramatically wrong with our education system.

That is simply not true. In Florida, there are two predominantly black high schools that are perpetually on the state's "F" schools list. When it was suggested it was better to just close them and start over, all of the doctors, nurses, engineers and college professors that supposedly got an inferior education came out of the woodwork to defend the schools.

Education is what the individual students makes of it. Want t be a doctor? Study hard in high school and go to college. Want to be a gangster thug? Drop out and do whatever it takes to become one!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Oh yeah? Hey what's your feeling about gov workers and the benefits they earn? . Say teachers???

Overpaid and incompetent.

Thank you for that uniformed opinion!

When was the last decade you were in a school for more than a student program?

I've had kids in school, and I see what the schools teach: nothing.

thats not true.
White people are bad. Blacks are good but picked on
rich people are bad, poor people would be rich if only the rich people would let them
Mentioning God will somehow indoctrinate a student into become religious, however teaching that homosexuality is perfectly normal will in no way influence a child.
abstinence will not prevent pregnancy or disease however a blow job is safe.
the schools do teach something.

I don't count brainwashing with government propaganda as "teaching."

Got any examples of this government propaganda that is taught in every school in America?

Of course you don't, because lying about it is just so much easier.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I love teasing you lass. Because you totally flip on issues if were talking about the military.

I'm a Navy brat, I know the struggles and sacrifices families go through so yeah I'll stand for them every time. Here is a thought, want a college education get off your ass, enlist and earn one. How's that?

Oh yeah? Hey what's your feeling about gov workers and the benefits they earn? . Say teachers???

Overpaid and incompetent.

Thank you for that uniformed opinion!

When was the last decade you were in a school for more than a student program?

I've had kids in school, and I see what the schools teach: nothing.

I teach in those school and have had three kids, a daughter-in-law, graduate already, and now I have three grand kids in them. I see what the schools teach and you do not. Now, who has the expertise and skin in the game?