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Why the 2nd Amendment needs to be reconsidered...
- Thread starter JoeB131
- Start date
[
Joe who said this?
"]
Who cares.
You don't need a gun.
You want a gun because of your own fears and inadequacies, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should let you have one.
I need a gun.
saveliberty
Diamond Member
- Oct 12, 2009
- 58,705
- 10,769
- 2,030
[
Joe who said this?
"]
Who cares.
You don't need a gun.
You want a gun because of your own fears and inadequacies, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should let you have one.
Fortunately, his rights do not flow from what you or others say or think, nor are they yours to take.
PaulS1950
Senior Member
If people would educate themselves on the bill of rights they would realize the they were put into the constitution after the limited powers were provided for the federal government as a notice that these rights were inherent birth rites and beyond the scope of any government or political power.
Event if the second amendment were erased we would retain the right it recalls because it does not give us the rights - it simply says that we are born with these rights.
Event if the second amendment were erased we would retain the right it recalls because it does not give us the rights - it simply says that we are born with these rights.
I have never needed a gun because I have never been hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, I don't WANT to go hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, and I have never needed to defend myself or any other person or critter from another human or critter intent on doing violence.
But I sure as heck know how to use a gun, clean it, load it, and shoot straight. And the fact that I know how to do that, and have a gun to do it with, is a comfort to me. Maybe I don't need a gun. But I am so grateful to live in a country that values me and my freedom more than it values government control re things like that.
You, Joe, don't need golf clubs. You an throw the ball and chase it around the golf course and get your exercise that way. You don't need a late model vehicle. Take the bus or make do with a clunker that runs. You don't need an automatic washing machine. A galvanized tub and scrub board was good enough for my grandma and should be good enough for you. You don't need a nice flat screen TV. Read a book instead. If you give up everything you enjoy and make do with just that necessary to sustain your life, think how many folks you could feed, clothe, and house with the money you don't spend.
See how that works? If you could make laws to deny me a gun, what is to keep you from denying me something else that I don't NEED?
Freedom is allowing people to live the lives they choose to live short of infringing on somebody else's rights. My gun is no danger to you, me, or anybody else. And freedom allows me to have it, enjoy it, or give it away, or hide it away where it is never ever seen if that is what I choose to do. If I misuse that gun in a way that could wrongfully harm anybody or any thing, there are laws to deal with that and ways to hold me accountable.
Until then, there can be no freedom without taking some risks.
But I sure as heck know how to use a gun, clean it, load it, and shoot straight. And the fact that I know how to do that, and have a gun to do it with, is a comfort to me. Maybe I don't need a gun. But I am so grateful to live in a country that values me and my freedom more than it values government control re things like that.
You, Joe, don't need golf clubs. You an throw the ball and chase it around the golf course and get your exercise that way. You don't need a late model vehicle. Take the bus or make do with a clunker that runs. You don't need an automatic washing machine. A galvanized tub and scrub board was good enough for my grandma and should be good enough for you. You don't need a nice flat screen TV. Read a book instead. If you give up everything you enjoy and make do with just that necessary to sustain your life, think how many folks you could feed, clothe, and house with the money you don't spend.
See how that works? If you could make laws to deny me a gun, what is to keep you from denying me something else that I don't NEED?
Freedom is allowing people to live the lives they choose to live short of infringing on somebody else's rights. My gun is no danger to you, me, or anybody else. And freedom allows me to have it, enjoy it, or give it away, or hide it away where it is never ever seen if that is what I choose to do. If I misuse that gun in a way that could wrongfully harm anybody or any thing, there are laws to deal with that and ways to hold me accountable.
Until then, there can be no freedom without taking some risks.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #467
[
Joe who said this?
"]
Who cares.
You don't need a gun.
You want a gun because of your own fears and inadequacies, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should let you have one.
Fortunately, his rights do not flow from what you or others say or think, nor are they yours to take.
There are no rights. There never were any rights.
Any dipshit who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans- 1942".
That's how fast rights disappear.
What we have are not "rights" given out by a magic sky pixie, but "privilages" the rest of society thinks you should have because, meh, that sounds fair and reasonable.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #468
I have never needed a gun because I have never been hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, I don't WANT to go hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, and I have never needed to defend myself or any other person or critter from another human or critter intent on doing violence.
But I sure as heck know how to use a gun, clean it, load it, and shoot straight. And the fact that I know how to do that, and have a gun to do it with, is a comfort to me. Maybe I don't need a gun. But I am so grateful to live in a country that values me and my freedom more than it values government control re things like that.
You, Joe, don't need golf clubs. You an throw the ball and chase it around the golf course and get your exercise that way. You don't need a late model vehicle. Take the bus or make do with a clunker that runs. You don't need an automatic washing machine. A galvanized tub and scrub board was good enough for my grandma and should be good enough for you. You don't need a nice flat screen TV. Read a book instead. If you give up everything you enjoy and make do with just that necessary to sustain your life, think how many folks you could feed, clothe, and house with the money you don't spend.
See how that works? If you could make laws to deny me a gun, what is to keep you from denying me something else that I don't NEED?
Freedom is allowing people to live the lives they choose to live short of infringing on somebody else's rights. My gun is no danger to you, me, or anybody else. And freedom allows me to have it, enjoy it, or give it away, or hide it away where it is never ever seen if that is what I choose to do. If I misuse that gun in a way that could wrongfully harm anybody or any thing, there are laws to deal with that and ways to hold me accountable.
Until then, there can be no freedom without taking some risks.
Sorry, man, I can't hear your whining about freedom when I see little kids getting wheeled out of schools in body bags.
If my flatscreen or golf clubs were designed to kill a lot of people, quickly, you might have a point.
You don't.
PaulS1950
Senior Member
Those who founded this great nation disagree:
WordsFromTheFoundingFathers:
The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
~Thomas Jefferson
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
~Benjamin Franklin
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrence's and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.
"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)
"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. ~George Washington
WordsFromTheFoundingFathers:
The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
~Thomas Jefferson
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
~Benjamin Franklin
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrence's and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.
"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)
"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. ~George Washington
I have never needed a gun because I have never been hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, I don't WANT to go hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, and I have never needed to defend myself or any other person or critter from another human or critter intent on doing violence.
But I sure as heck know how to use a gun, clean it, load it, and shoot straight. And the fact that I know how to do that, and have a gun to do it with, is a comfort to me. Maybe I don't need a gun. But I am so grateful to live in a country that values me and my freedom more than it values government control re things like that.
You, Joe, don't need golf clubs. You an throw the ball and chase it around the golf course and get your exercise that way. You don't need a late model vehicle. Take the bus or make do with a clunker that runs. You don't need an automatic washing machine. A galvanized tub and scrub board was good enough for my grandma and should be good enough for you. You don't need a nice flat screen TV. Read a book instead. If you give up everything you enjoy and make do with just that necessary to sustain your life, think how many folks you could feed, clothe, and house with the money you don't spend.
See how that works? If you could make laws to deny me a gun, what is to keep you from denying me something else that I don't NEED?
Freedom is allowing people to live the lives they choose to live short of infringing on somebody else's rights. My gun is no danger to you, me, or anybody else. And freedom allows me to have it, enjoy it, or give it away, or hide it away where it is never ever seen if that is what I choose to do. If I misuse that gun in a way that could wrongfully harm anybody or any thing, there are laws to deal with that and ways to hold me accountable.
Until then, there can be no freedom without taking some risks.
Sorry, man, I can't hear your whining about freedom when I see little kids getting wheeled out of schools in body bags.
If my flatscreen or golf clubs were designed to kill a lot of people, quickly, you might have a point.
You don't.
If somebody responsible in that school had had my gun, there might have been far fewer or no little kids put into those body bags.
But my having a gun had absolutely nothing to do with that, and it never will.
I noticed you call yourself a Eisenhower Republican![
Joe who said this?
"Any time we deny any citizen
the full exercise of his constitutional rights,
we are weakening our own claim to them."
Well Joe do you have anything else to add? Where did you go?
TABLE OF CONTENTSSecond Amendment doesn't say anything about "guns".
It says "Arms".
As far as nomenclatures, a howitzer is referred to as a "gun", while an M-16 is referred to as a "rifle".
"This is my Rifle..
This is my Gun
This is for Killing
This is for fun!"
(Anyone in the service knows what that was about.)
[ame=http://youtu.be/UCcbftRTZKI]20090725 - SFC (Ret) George Hayden US Army - Stack Arms - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://youtu.be/NBah7dVzIOw]The 124th NYSV present Stacking Arms - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://youtu.be/KnNK3Z0C4Ys]1764 Manual of Arms - YouTube[/ame]
PART SECOND ARMS.
"]
Who cares.
You don't need a gun.
You want a gun because of your own fears and inadequacies, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should let you have one.
Maybe you should know a little about the man
EisenhowerWho cares.
You don't need a gun.
You want a gun because of your own fears and inadequacies, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should let you have one.
Fortunately, his rights do not flow from what you or others say or think, nor are they yours to take.
There are no rights. There never were any rights.
Any dipshit who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans- 1942".
That's how fast rights disappear.
What we have are not "rights" given out by a magic sky pixie, but "privilages" the rest of society thinks you should have because, meh, that sounds fair and reasonable.
"Any time we deny any citizen
the full exercise of his constitutional rights,
we are weakening our own claim to them."
Dubya
Senior Member
- Dec 29, 2012
- 3,056
- 59
- 48
I have never needed a gun because I have never been hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, I don't WANT to go hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, and I have never needed to defend myself or any other person or critter from another human or critter intent on doing violence.
But I sure as heck know how to use a gun, clean it, load it, and shoot straight. And the fact that I know how to do that, and have a gun to do it with, is a comfort to me. Maybe I don't need a gun. But I am so grateful to live in a country that values me and my freedom more than it values government control re things like that.
You, Joe, don't need golf clubs. You an throw the ball and chase it around the golf course and get your exercise that way. You don't need a late model vehicle. Take the bus or make do with a clunker that runs. You don't need an automatic washing machine. A galvanized tub and scrub board was good enough for my grandma and should be good enough for you. You don't need a nice flat screen TV. Read a book instead. If you give up everything you enjoy and make do with just that necessary to sustain your life, think how many folks you could feed, clothe, and house with the money you don't spend.
See how that works? If you could make laws to deny me a gun, what is to keep you from denying me something else that I don't NEED?
Freedom is allowing people to live the lives they choose to live short of infringing on somebody else's rights. My gun is no danger to you, me, or anybody else. And freedom allows me to have it, enjoy it, or give it away, or hide it away where it is never ever seen if that is what I choose to do. If I misuse that gun in a way that could wrongfully harm anybody or any thing, there are laws to deal with that and ways to hold me accountable.
Until then, there can be no freedom without taking some risks.
Nice speech, but we don't care if you have a gun and just want laws so criminals don't get guns.
C_Clayton_Jones
Diamond Member
In one way its unfortunate a new Federal AWB wont ever make it to the presidents desk, where it would certainly provoke a court challenge, and finally relegate what firearm is in common use at the time and what is dangerous and unusual.
PaulS1950
Senior Member
We already have laws that say criminals can't have guns.
So, tell me again how criminals pay attention to laws...
A person has to be a SPECIAL kind of stupid to believe that!
So, tell me again how criminals pay attention to laws...
A person has to be a SPECIAL kind of stupid to believe that!
Clementine
Platinum Member
- Dec 18, 2011
- 12,919
- 4,825
- 350
"Why the 2nd Amendment needs to be reconsidered..."
Because JoeB121 is scared.. nothing more nothing less
It's not even because people are really scared. It's about government not feeling they have enough control over an armed population. As long as freedom and libery exist in this country, we will never have a dicator. Take away freedoms, which they are doing, then disarm us and we will be under a dictatorship. I truly believe we have some wannabe dictators.
Historically, people who were disarmed were murdered by their own governments. I can't believe anyone who has read about history actually supports the idea that the 2nd amendment should be reconsidered. There is only one reason a government would ever want to disarm it's people. We must never allow them to do that.
Last edited:
I have never needed a gun because I have never been hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, I don't WANT to go hunting with anything more lethal than a camera, and I have never needed to defend myself or any other person or critter from another human or critter intent on doing violence.
But I sure as heck know how to use a gun, clean it, load it, and shoot straight. And the fact that I know how to do that, and have a gun to do it with, is a comfort to me. Maybe I don't need a gun. But I am so grateful to live in a country that values me and my freedom more than it values government control re things like that.
You, Joe, don't need golf clubs. You an throw the ball and chase it around the golf course and get your exercise that way. You don't need a late model vehicle. Take the bus or make do with a clunker that runs. You don't need an automatic washing machine. A galvanized tub and scrub board was good enough for my grandma and should be good enough for you. You don't need a nice flat screen TV. Read a book instead. If you give up everything you enjoy and make do with just that necessary to sustain your life, think how many folks you could feed, clothe, and house with the money you don't spend.
See how that works? If you could make laws to deny me a gun, what is to keep you from denying me something else that I don't NEED?
Freedom is allowing people to live the lives they choose to live short of infringing on somebody else's rights. My gun is no danger to you, me, or anybody else. And freedom allows me to have it, enjoy it, or give it away, or hide it away where it is never ever seen if that is what I choose to do. If I misuse that gun in a way that could wrongfully harm anybody or any thing, there are laws to deal with that and ways to hold me accountable.
Until then, there can be no freedom without taking some risks.
Nice speech, but we don't care if you have a gun and just want laws so criminals don't get guns.
But the argument JoeB seems to be making, that the President seems to be making, that other pro more gun control people seem to be making, is that taking my gun will fix the problem.
Lets focus on the criminal for a change instead of thinking that more controls on responsible, law abiding citizens is the way to accomplish something.
There was a time in America in which the U.S. Postal inspectors were the best trained, most efficient, most effective, and most relentless law enforcement group in the country. And those convicted of U.S. mail related crimes received fast, effective, and severe penalties. Thieves breaking into a big store or shopping mall with a post office would draw a chalk line around it and leave a note: Feds, we didn't cross this line. And because of that, crimes committed in and around post offices were practically nil.
We could make the same tough rules re gun crime. But maybe because it would so heavily impact illegals, gang bangers, and other 'protected classes' of people in the USA, that does not seem to be as attractive an option for dealing with gun crime.
We could make the same tough rules re gun crime. But maybe because it would so heavily impact illegals, gang bangers, and other 'protected classes' of people in the USA, that does not seem to be as attractive an option for dealing with gun crime.
saveliberty
Diamond Member
- Oct 12, 2009
- 58,705
- 10,769
- 2,030
Who cares.
You don't need a gun.
You want a gun because of your own fears and inadequacies, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should let you have one.
Fortunately, his rights do not flow from what you or others say or think, nor are they yours to take.
There are no rights. There never were any rights.
Any dipshit who thinks he has "rights" needs to look up "Japanese-Americans- 1942".
That's how fast rights disappear.
What we have are not "rights" given out by a magic sky pixie, but "privilages" the rest of society thinks you should have because, meh, that sounds fair and reasonable.
The right was still there the whole time. A criminal act took it away for a time. You suggest a permanent removal and are quite proud of it. I suppose the people who helped with the event you mentioned felt the same way. Careful how history judges you.
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