Zone1 Why the rosary is a most important prayer/meditation all Christians should say daily

[Meriweather]

Then wouldn't it be more fair to pay back the one who was cheated?

Read what I said. I said if for some reason he could not repay that person.

Apparently they are sol no matter what. Part of the repentance??? Repenting to a church?

Repentance is not committing the sin again. What has that to do with a church?

I know what method was used by God to completely remove our sin. It is well documented. What method does He use to purify us in Purgatory. Fire perhaps?

Again, read what the Bible says, including Jesus.

Can physical fire hurt a non-physical spirit?

 

[Meriweather]

What is your definition of "ALL"?

In that context, all the unrighteousness brought on from sins that have been confessed.... I imagine you believe it is all unrighteousness for all time?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Read what I said. I said if for some reason he could not repay that person.

Repentance is not committing the sin again. What has that to do with a church?

Again, read what the Bible says, including Jesus.

Can physical fire hurt a non-physical spirit?

According to the people that made it up, purgatory is a fiery celestial hell. Are they wrong or are you?

To Re-pent means to return to the highest level. It is why the top floor of a hotel is called the penthouse. When you ask God to forgive your sin, and He does, you return to where you belong. We are merely sojourners here. We belong in Heaven with out Father.

teshuvah is translated from the Hebrew as repentance, but it literally means return, turning back to something you've strayed or looked away from.

 

[Meriweather]

According to the people that made it up, purgatory is a fiery celestial hell. Are they wrong or are you?

There have been many descriptions of purgatory. I see you like the fiery celestial hell best. Why is that?

 

[Meriweather]

To Re-pent means to return to the highest level.

Moreover, it means a change of heart, a change of mind. The exchange is from disobedience to obedience.

Why do you pray?

 

[The Irish Ram]

There have been many descriptions of purgatory. I see you like the fiery celestial hell best. Why is that?

Why so many descriptions about something so important?
Fiery purgatory isn't my description. It's this guy's:

Do you dispute him?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you dispute him?

Why? It's his thought. Your thought is that there is no purgatory. Why dispute that either?

 

[buttercup]

fatima was a lie- satan can appear as an angel of light.

Sometimes when I read certain scriptures that are warnings about deception...I think to myself: God knew in advance exactly what would happen in the future that necessitated those very specific clear warnings.

I think the scripture you brought up is a perfect example of that.

Reportedly, the "apparition of Mary" in Fatima fit that "like an angel of light" description in the 2 Cor. 11 warning to a tee:

"The Virgin Mary appeared to the children on May 13, 1917 as “a lady dressed in white, shining brighter than the sun, giving out rays of clear and intense light,” dos Santos wrote. She promised to come to the children on the 13th of each month." ​

source​

So, by their own admission, the rosary with beads custom at least partially originated from an apparition to three children in Portugal.

Here's what we have so far:

1. Jesus specifically said do not pray in a repetitious / chanting type of way. (Matthew 6:7)
   
   
2. God specifically said do not pray to those who have passed on. (Deuteronomy 18:11-12)
   
   
3. Prayer beads have a pagan background, they have always been used by pagan and other false religions.
   
   
4. The Bible clearly says that there is only one mediator between God and man; Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)
   
   
5. We are specifically warned to test the spirits, because satan himself can masquerade as an angel of light ( 1 John 4:1, 2 Corinthians 11:14)
   
   
6. The "apparition of Mary" reportedly promises salvation to those who embrace it (source) which clearly goes against the scriptures.
   
   
7. The Fatima "Mary" apparition promotes and honors itself, which is not what the real Mary would have done, and is yet another clear clue that it was a deception. ("I desire here a chapel in my honor to be built, that people continue to recite the Rosary every day." source)

So, when put all together, for me it is truly amazing to see what I clearly see as such a massive deception, continuing to mislead millions of well-meaning people. But more than just amazing, it is very disturbing, because so many people are so deeply invested / committed to Catholicism that they will vehemently defend this tradition, and argue away all the points I brought up, instead of looking at the history and facts in an objective way, putting truth first, above any allegiance to a particular church or denomination.

The response to that will likely be "but it's harmless, so why does it matter to you?" Well, here's the thing. False teachings can and often do lead to other false doctrines, so it's not entirely harmless... it has a sort of domino effect. That is why TIR is absolutely correct when she stated that on threads like this she will correct what is false, because that is one of the things the scriptures are for. (2 Timothy 3:16) And I don't think I'm alone in not liking to see anyone misled...that is part of caring about others, not wanting to see people misled.

Thanks for reading this long post, and I hope that if anyone disagrees with it, they will clearly show how it is wrong, and refute it using the scriptures...in a civil way. I have to give Meriweather props for that, she is usually civil, even when there is strong disagreement between her and us non-Catholic Christians.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Why? It's his thought. Your thought is that there is no purgatory. Why dispute that either?

Because his thoughts were adopted by the Catholic Church. You have no idea who he is, yet you follow him. He decided the method in purgatory is fire, Is that your understanding?

Thomas Aquinas was the greatest of the Scholastic philosophers. He produced a comprehensive synthesis of Christian theology and Aristotelian philosophy that influenced Roman Catholic doctrine for centuries and was adopted as the official philosophy of the church in 1917.

 

[Meriweather]

Thanks for reading this long post, and I hope that if anyone disagrees with it, they will clearly show how it is wrong, and refute it using the scriptures...in a civil way. I have to give Meriweather props for that, she is usually civil, even when there is strong disagreement between her and us non-Catholic Christians.

• What is the evil that came into the world at Fatima?
• Isn't it odd that Satan wants people to pray the Lord's prayer and meditate on the Life of Christ and asks Mary to lead people to Jesus instead of to him?
• Isn't calling Mary a "mediator" instead of an emissary or advocate so that some Christians will feel free to condemn the mother of Christ a strange way to win the approval of God?
• Finally, it appears Satan wanted the people to build a chapel to worship and thank God in the place where Mary appeared.

Changing what Jesus said about prayer to denigrate the Rosary (which includes the prayer he taught us) and glorifies God is to what purpose? It sounds like a group of Christians disapprove of people meditating on the Bible (particularly the life of Christ), saying the Lord's Prayer and glorifying God.

Even Catholics are not required to believe apparitions check and approved by the Vatican as they fall into the category of private revelations. It is fine for Catholics to reject private revelations if they wish. This, of course, means non-Catholics should not feel obliged to give apparitions/private revelations a second thought. However, it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect a modicum of respect in the form of silence, either.

 

[Meriweather]

Because his thoughts were adopted by the Catholic Church. You have no idea who he is, yet you follow him. He decided the method in purgatory is fire, Is that your understanding?

Other thoughts on Purgatory have been adopted by the Catholic Church as well, and some of these thoughts do not include fire. So why are you focused on fire? Hopefully, it Is because fire is sometimes associated with purification. Jesus himself used this image of purification, so I find nothing odd about one of his believers using the image as well.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Other thoughts on Purgatory have been adopted by the Catholic Church as well, and some of these thoughts do not include fire. So why are you focused on fire? Hopefully, it Is because fire is sometimes associated with purification. Jesus himself used this image of purification, so I find nothing odd about one of his believers using the image as well.

No, it is because the one who's ideas were adopted by your church believed it. The C. church even made him a saint.
So, if other thoughts were accepted is it one way today and a different way tomorrow? Because Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. You don't have to worry about His doctine. It never changes.

So, the authors that gave you Purgatory believed it was fire. Are they right or are you? What is the Catholic dogma du jour? And since it was decided that Purgary is a a place, where is it?

 

[The Irish Ram]

. Why purgatory? Purification. That's it

1 John 1:7 & 9, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness

all:
completely
fully
entirely
totally
wholly
absolutely
utterly
outright
thoroughly
altogether
quite
in every respect
in all respects
without reservation
without exception

 

[Meriweather]

So, the authors that gave you Purgatory believed it was fire. Are they right or are you? What is the Catholic dogma du jour? And since it was decided that Purgary is a a place, where is it?

Once again, you are telling me what Catholics "really" believe or teach.

Fire has never been included in the Catholic Church's defined doctrine on purgatory. It is simply one of the things about which some speculate. In addition, the Church also teaches purgatory as a condition rather than a place.

I have gone over both these issues several times now. Isn't it time to move on?

 

[Meriweather]

all:

Again, I acknowledge your beliefs and if you believe it is the Holy Spirit that is teaching this in your church, I believe the Holy Spirit is meeting you where you are and drawing you closer to God. Your church seems to read "cleansed of all sin" as meaning all sins you commit are washed away, kind of like dirt on a window.

Biblical/traditional teaching is that it is Christ's blood that can prevent one from committing a sin in the first place. Our love of Christ and his sacrifice, our devotion to him, can prevent us from committing not only small sins but great ones as well. Not committing sin, but instead doing what is right is what sanctifies and makes one righteous. That is the cleansing action of Christ's blood and that is how many read 1 John 1:7-9.

 

[1miseryindex]

According to the people that made it up, purgatory is a fiery celestial hell. Are they wrong or are you?

To Re-pent means to return to the highest level.

well, when are you going to return to the highest level... assuming you have ever been there, which we do not at all assume

 

[1miseryindex]

Again, I acknowledge your beliefs and if you believe it is the Holy Spirit that is teaching this in your church, I believe the Holy Spirit is meeting you where you are and drawing you closer to God. Your church seems to read "cleansed of all sin" as meaning all sins you commit are washed away, kind of like dirt on a window.

Biblical/traditional teaching is that it is Christ's blood that can prevent one from committing a sin in the first place. Our love of Christ and his sacrifice, our devotion to him, can prevent us from committing not only small sins but great ones as well. Not committing sin, but instead doing what is right is what sanctifies and makes one righteous. That is the cleansing action of Christ's blood and that is how many read 1 John 1:7-9.

then there's the fact that, as it says somewhere in Scripture

Even the just are BARELY saved (emphasis mine)

 

[Meriweather]

then there's the fact that, as it says somewhere in Scripture

Even the just are BARELY saved (emphasis mine)

Yes. 1 Peter 4:18-19 -

And if the righteous one is barely saved, where will the godless and the sinner appear?” As a result, those who suffer in accord with God's will hand their souls over to a faithful creator as they do good.

 

[The Irish Ram]

well, when are you going to return to the highest level... assuming you have ever been there, which we do not at all assume

When are you going to stop judging people?

 

[Crick]

OK, first there is Fatima 1917 when the Virgin appeared to the 3 children who were shepherding sheep.

She told them to pray the rosary for sinners who are on their way to Hell, which according to my information is 99% of the human race.

She told the one boy, can't recall his name, that he would/could also go to Heaven like the others, but that he would "have to pray many rosaries"

Wow... If even a CHILD has to pray many rosaries to get to Heaven--!

How much more imperative is it that we adults do so?

Can I get a loop recorder and put myself on there doing my very best and most sincere Rosary and then play it, like 3,000 times a day, every day for the rest of my life? Will that work?


If not, why not?