Why Trump Was Charged On Secret Documents And Clinton, Pence Were Not

[ThisIsMe]

If you work in a SCIF, and are dealing with classified information all the time as part of your job a classified document getting accidentally included in a file with unclassified documents wouldnt be hard to do. Or forgetting that you put a classifed document in your notebook and walking out.


View attachment 863407

That's the National Security Agency. All 4 buildings, HQ, OPS1, OPs 2B and 2B are a gigantic SCIF. 10's of thousands of people work there every day. Do you think no one accidentally takes a bit of classified information out of there ever? And thats not the entire site. Theres the R&E building and the FANX. Not to mention all the offsite offices that exist not only in the Ft Meade area but in GA, Denver, HI etc. That's one intelligence agency, and not the biggest one. There are 17 agencies that make up the IC, all of them accessing and generating classified information all day everyday. I dont think you actually understand the size and scope of this.

Quick add on.

United States Intelligence Community - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Washington Post reported in 2010 that there were 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies in 10,000 locations in the United States that were working on counterterrorism, homeland security, and intelligence, and that the intelligence community as a whole would include 854,000 people holding top-secret clearances."

Do you think that number has gone up or down since 2010?

I’m not a security expert, but I’m going to assume that even inside that NSA complex, they have rooms or specific areas where classified documents can be viewed and present. Surely there are not classified documents just flowing all around that whole complex. There are still rules and procedures for the handling of sensitive information. Probably more so in a place like that where they have an abundance of sensitive material, to prevent what you just mentioned, the “accidental” removal of classified information.

Do you think no one accidentally takes a bit of classified information out of there ever?

I would certainly hope not. If our security procedures are such that someone could accidentally just walk out with classified documents, what does that say about our security, and sensitive material handling procedures?

 

[Godboy]

Ok, but isn’t the thing about a scif that you are not allowed to take anything in with you? No cell phones, no folders, no briefcase? Also, are the documents not tracked when in the scif? Surely whatever is brought into the scif is documented and if it’s not there when you are ready to leave, they would know before you stepped out of the door.

Also, isn’t it that someone brings the document they are wanting to see into the scif and the document is supposed to remain in the scif so that the person who brought it to the scif would be the same person to take it back to the area it is normally stored at?

I’m just finding it hard to believe that they have a whole system set up for protecting those documents, including a special room where those documents can be viewed, and yet someone could just casually walk out with it and nobody would ever know.


I’m sorry, that doesn’t seem realistic.

Not to mention the fact that he was able to do it MANY MANY times.

 

[meaner gene]

That’s not the issue. The issue is, he was not legally authorized to remove them from their secure place. The issue is that he had these documents for 30 years and nobody cared.

Trump leaves office for 2 weeks and Nara is banging down his door.

There is a double standard. If both people broke the law, then why is only one being prosecuted.

It's because NRA knew the documents were missing, and who likely had wrongful possession of them.

That's why they wrote letters, and even got a subpoena for the documents, Only to have Trump continue to refuse to return them.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Trump is getting what he deserves.

 

[Couchpotato]

Ok, but isn’t the thing about a scif that you are not allowed to take anything in with you? No cell phones, no folders, no briefcase?

Cell phones, No. Notebooks, briefcases etc yes you can. Everyone in the IC doesnt go to work in the nude. The whole point of having a clearance is that you've been vetted and are a trusted agent.

Also, are the documents not tracked when in the scif? Surely whatever is brought into the scif is documented and if it’s not there when you are ready to leave, they would know before you stepped out of the door.

No everything you bring into a SCIF is not documented. Nor do the guards rifle through every bag that goes in and out. You badge in and go to work, then badge out when you leave. Can the guards stop you and ask to go through your back pack or whatever it is you're carrying? Sure but they arent doing that to every person walking in and out, they cant. there are too many people that need to get in and out. See above, the purpose of having a clearance is that you have been deemed repsonsible to handle classified information. That doesnt mean people dont make mistakes.

Also, isn’t it that someone brings the document they are wanting to see into the scif and the document is supposed to remain in the scif so that the person who brought it to the scif would be the same person to take it back to the area it is normally stored at?

? There isnt some separate repository where hardcopies of the classified documents exist that people who are working with them go sign them out then transport them to their office/desk and then sign them back in at the end of the day. You might have heard of these things called computers. They are a highly classified piece of equipment, but they are super cool where you can access and view things on a screen (like the movies) only smaller.

I’m just finding it hard to believe that they have a whole system set up for protecting those documents, including a special room where those documents can be viewed, and yet someone could just casually walk out with it and nobody would ever know.

Again not how it works. Did you miss the part where I posted the picture of the NSA. The entire place is the "special room". 100's of thousands of sqft of SCIF.

I’m sorry, that doesn’t seem realistic.

How on earth do you think intelligence analysts would ever get anything done if they operated like you think they do? Seriously.

 

[Godboy]

It's because NRA knew the documents were missing, and who likely had wrongful possession of them.

That's why they wrote letters, and even got a subpoena for the documents, Only to have Trump continue to refuse to return them.

They knew he had them because he wasnt hiding the fact that he had them, unlike Biden who hid his for YEARS, if not decades.

 

[Couchpotato]

He never actually took them fromm a SCIF though. That was my point.

"How does he pull that off thousands of times?"

The answer is, he didnt. Someone stole them directly from the archives for him. There is no other way for him to get the documents. As ive already laid out, its not possible for a Senator to steal even one from a SCIF, let alone a thousand of them at different times. You cant have intelligence agents siging their name to take the document, then not return it. They would get busted immediately.

of course you're yawning, you got caught in a lie. Slink back to your hole.

 

[Godboy]

Trump is getting what he deserves.

Agreed, he deserves his high poll numbers and Biden deserves his embarrassingly low numbers.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It's because NRA knew the documents were missing, and who likely had wrongful possession of them.

That's why they wrote letters, and even got a subpoena for the documents, Only to have Trump continue to refuse to return them.

Wait, so they knew they were missing when trump had them, but we’re not aware when Biden had them?
How does that work? Seems…convenient….

 

[Couchpotato]

I’m not a security expert, but I’m going to assume that even inside that NSA complex, they have rooms or specific areas where classified documents can be viewed and present. Surely there are not classified documents just flowing all around that whole complex. There are still rules and procedures for the handling of sensitive information. Probably more so in a place like that where they have an abundance of sensitive material, to prevent what you just mentioned, the “accidental” removal of classified information.

NO The entire thing is a SCIF. There's no going to a special room to view classified documents.

I would certainly hope not. If our security procedures are such that someone could accidentally just walk out with classified documents, what does that say about our security, and sensitive material handling procedures?

Isnt the fact that people had classified documents in their houses for decades proof that what you think happens isnt what actually happens? Isnt what Snowden did proof of that?

 

[Godboy]

of course you're yawning, you got caught in a lie. Slink back to your hole.

What are you talking about? Read the post that you quoted, dipshit. Youre fuckin stupid.

 

[Couchpotato]

What are you talking about? Read the post that you quoted, dipshit. Youre fuckin stupid.

Sure champ.

 

[Godboy]

NO The entire thing is a SCIF. There's no going to a special room to view classified documents.


Isnt the fact that people had classified documents in their houses for decades proof that what you think happens isnt what actually happens? Isnt what Snowden did proof of that?

Wait, you think every person at the NSA has the exact same clearance and therefore they dont have a need for SCIFs? Thats the dumbest thing ive heard anyone say this week.

 

[Godboy]

NO The entire thing is a SCIF. There's no going to a special room to view classified documents.


Isnt the fact that people had classified documents in their houses for decades proof that what you think happens isnt what actually happens? Isnt what Snowden did proof of that?

Snowden didnt steal documents from a SCIF, retard. He put it on a thumbdrive right from his work computer. Snowden had extremely high clearance that gave him unfetterred access to all kinds of shit. Most intelligence people dont have that level of clearance.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Cell phones, No. Notebooks, briefcases etc yes you can. Everyone in the IC doesnt go to work in the nude. The whole point of having a clearance is that you've been vetted and are a trusted agent.



No everything you bring into a SCIF is not documented. Nor do the guards rifle through every bag that goes in and out. You badge in and go to work, then badge out when you leave. Can the guards stop you and ask to go through your back pack or whatever it is you're carrying? Sure but they arent doing that to every person walking in and out, they cant. there are too many people that need to get in and out. See above, the purpose of having a clearance is that you have been deemed repsonsible to handle classified information. That doesnt mean people dont make mistakes.


? There isnt some separate repository where hardcopies of the classified documents exist that people who are working with them go sign them out then transport them to their office/desk and then sign them back in at the end of the day. You might have heard of these things called computers. They are a highly classified piece of equipment, but they are super cool where you can access and view things on a screen (like the movies) only smaller.



Again not how it works. Did you miss the part where I posted the picture of the NSA. The entire place is the "special room". 100's of thousands of sqft of SCIF.



How on earth do you think intelligence analysts would ever get anything done if they operated like you think they do? Seriously.

Everyone in the IC doesnt go to work in the nude. The whole point of having a clearance is that you've been vetted and are a trusted agent.

Were talking about the scif that congress uses. They are not a part of the IC community. Those congressmen, if they go to the scif, I’m sure whatever they are viewing is known. If it’s removed, someone would know about it.

No everything you bring into a SCIF is not documented.

Again, we’re talking about the congressional scif. The halls of congress are not a scif, as far as I’m aware.

There isnt some separate repository where hardcopies of the classified documents exist that people who are working with them go sign them out then transport them to their office/desk and then sign them back in at the end of the day. You might have heard of these things called computers. They are a highly classified piece of equipment, but they are super cool where you can access and view things on a screen (like the movies) only smaller.

So then how did he get the classified material out of the scif? Did he download the documents to a thumb drive and then print them off once he got home? We’re taking about Biden having boxes of classiified documents in his garage, so at some point it had to have been printed.

So, now this brings up another layer of problems. If he viewed the classified information on a computer in the scif, then where did he classified documents come from? If it’s a classified document, then it’s controlled right? This means it has a storage place, a physical one. If it’s all on computer as you suggest, then we have a deeper issue because this means Biden, or someone working for him at the time, was allowed to print off those documents and there was never any record of it.

Again not how it works. Did you miss the part where I posted the picture of the NSA. The entire place is the "special room". 100's of thousands of sqft of SCIF.

Ok, that may work for that building, and as you said, it’s probably all digital. In congress, however, the scif is not the whole building.

How on earth do you think intelligence analysts would ever get anything done if they operated like you think they do? Seriously.

You’re talking about the nsa building and analysts. I’m talking about the congressional scif.

However, if things are as you say they are, and it’s possible for people to accidentally just stroll out the door with classified material, then our security is shit, our methods of protecting classified information is shit. If someone could just casually stroll out the door by accident with classified material, thing how easy it would be for someone to intentionally walk out the door with that information.

If it’s that easy, then what the hell do we spend all of this money on national security for? If our nations secrets can be had because someone just had an “oops, my bad, I didnt realize I had those national defense strategy papers stuffed into my newspaper roll” moment.

 

[ThisIsMe]

NO The entire thing is a SCIF. There's no going to a special room to view classified documents.


Isnt the fact that people had classified documents in their houses for decades proof that what you think happens isnt what actually happens? Isnt what Snowden did proof of that?

It’s proof that somehow a senator was able to remove classified documents from their holding place and some people looked the other way, or, he was able to print them off from a computer, and again, someone looked the other way.

 

[meaner gene]

They knew he had them because he wasnt hiding the fact that he had them, unlike Biden who hid his for YEARS, if not decades.

Trump was hiding them. He even had his lawyer Christina Bobb swear under oath that the documents the National Archives issued a subpoena for, had all been turned over, which was NOT true. That explains why DOJ issued search warrant.

Nobody knew where the documents that Biden and Pence had were, not even Biden and Pence. Their existence was only discovered by doing a search. meaning that unlike Trump, they didn't know what they had, or where they had it. Their removal and retention was accidental, which means their was no intent.

 

[meaner gene]

Wait, so they knew they were missing when trump had them, but we’re not aware when Biden had them?
How does that work? Seems…convenient….

In part because of the nature of the documents. Documents that are merely classified "confidential" or even "secret" can be had by anyone cleared to read them. But the documents Trump had were either TS TS/SCI or known PRA materials, like the Kim Jong Un letter. They were recorded as withdrawn for use by the President, and not returned.

 

[Couchpotato]

It’s proof that somehow a senator was able to remove classified documents from their holding place and some people looked the other way, or, he was able to print them off from a computer, and again, someone looked the other way.

What's more plausible? That classified documents aren't handled the way you think they are and so it's relatively easy to mistakenly or purposefully remove them from a secured space because people who have clearances are vetted and trust and so it isn't required to do a body cavity search of everyone leaving the secured area. Oooooooor there's some grand conspiracy that allowed then Senator Joe Biden to take classified documents out of the secured area and randomly store them in his garage and an office so that he could then turn them back in when he was President years later..... It's probably the second scenario. Im quite sure of it...

 

[Couchpotato]

Snowden didnt steal documents from a SCIF, retard. He put it on a thumbdrive right from his work computer. Snowden had extremely high clearance that gave him unfetterred access to all kinds of shit. Most intelligence people dont have that level of clearance.

Snowden was an IT guy at NSA who worked for BAH. He didnt actually have any access to the data he stole. He used other peoples creds to get it which was why he wasnt caught for so long. You just run off at the mouth with no knowledge at all about what you're talking about dont you.