Why Would a God Care If I Believe In Him/Her?

[ninja007]

This God I hear about is supposed to be all knowing, and in that case I would assume he/she is mature, so why would he/she care if I believe or not?
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because He died for you. He made you; He formed you in the womb. He knew you before you existed. He loves you.

 

[MaxGrit]

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Yawn, I'm sorry, I fell asleep after reading two sentences. That's what I do when I feel I'm being preached at instead of just a plain old conversation.




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GOD doesn't care what you think you think, because he's making the choice on if you are going to believe in him. That is called election.

You have no free will, just the illusion of freewill. You are subservient to God who does what he pleases with you.

God holy will is supreme.

 

[Agit8r]

You've seen the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel...

you've read that Adam was made in God's image...

now you see the root of all that insecure, possessive lunacy?

 

[Rationalist1016]

I make my choices and live with the consequences.....why can't you do the same?......

That is how I live my life as well. Why are you assuming otherwise?

Also, you dodged the question.

no, I think its pretty obvious I didn't....I said I was willing to live with the consequences if I've made the wrong choice....

I also asked: "Is it worse than not believing at all?" This is a general question..........not a personal attack.

But you also made the assumption that I am not willing to live with the choices I've made. At which point you changed from a general discussion to a personal accusation. And I am wondering on what grounds did you see it correct to accuse me of anything?

 

[Carla_Danger]

That is how I live my life as well. Why are you assuming otherwise?

Also, you dodged the question.

no, I think its pretty obvious I didn't....I said I was willing to live with the consequences if I've made the wrong choice....

I also asked: "Is it worse than not believing at all?" This is a general question..........not a personal attack.

But you also made the assumption that I am not willing to live with the choices I've made. At which point you changed from a general discussion to a personal accusation. And I am wondering on what grounds did you see it correct to accuse me of anything?

It's like pulling teeth, to get a straight answer.




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[Carla_Danger]

This God I hear about is supposed to be all knowing, and in that case I would assume he/she is mature, so why would he/she care if I believe or not?
.

.

because He died for you. He made you; He formed you in the womb. He knew you before you existed. He loves you.

I have evidence that my parents actually made me.



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[Carla_Danger]

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Yawn, I'm sorry, I fell asleep after reading two sentences. That's what I do when I feel I'm being preached at instead of just a plain old conversation.




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GOD doesn't care what you think you think, because he's making the choice on if you are going to believe in him. That is called election.

You have no free will, just the illusion of freewill. You are subservient to God who does what he pleases with you.

God holy will is supreme.

Then I have nothing to worry about, and shouldn't try to do a damn thing. If I go out and murder today, God is actually doing it for me.

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[PostmodernProph]

I didn't see any "but."


Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

well, except.....no.....that's still the exact opposite of what he actually said......sorry.....

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don?t have to believe in God to go to heaven - Europe - World - The Independent

/grins....the gospel, according the The Independent........

This is what Pope Francis wrote.

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”


If he didn't say that, please prove otherwise.

he said what was quoted earlier and you omitted from your post.....you still need to accept the offered salvation......denying his existence is a refusal, when the acceptance is the truth of his existence......

 

[PostmodernProph]

That is how I live my life as well. Why are you assuming otherwise?

Also, you dodged the question.

no, I think its pretty obvious I didn't....I said I was willing to live with the consequences if I've made the wrong choice....

I also asked: "Is it worse than not believing at all?" This is a general question..........not a personal attack.

But you also made the assumption that I am not willing to live with the choices I've made. At which point you changed from a general discussion to a personal accusation. And I am wondering on what grounds did you see it correct to accuse me of anything?

we are in the middle of a discussion of whether God is evil for requiring people to make a choice.....was I wrong to assume that if you are complaining about having to make a choice you are worried about making the wrong one?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

no, I think its pretty obvious I didn't....I said I was willing to live with the consequences if I've made the wrong choice....

I also asked: "Is it worse than not believing at all?" This is a general question..........not a personal attack.

But you also made the assumption that I am not willing to live with the choices I've made. At which point you changed from a general discussion to a personal accusation. And I am wondering on what grounds did you see it correct to accuse me of anything?

It's like pulling teeth, to get a straight answer.




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I have given a straight answer....you just don't like the answer I gave.....

 

[Carla_Danger]

well, except.....no.....that's still the exact opposite of what he actually said......sorry.....

/grins....the gospel, according the The Independent........

This is what Pope Francis wrote.

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”


If he didn't say that, please prove otherwise.

he said what was quoted earlier and you omitted from your post.....you still need to accept the offered salvation......denying his existence is a refusal, when the acceptance is the truth of his existence......

I omitted nothing from my post. The first link, what you were reading is an article written in response to his letter. I went to the trouble of finding his actual letter. It's written in Italian, so I transferred it to Google translate.

Here is his actual writing.

"This brings me to the three questions that puts me in the article of August 7. It seems to me that, in the first two, what is The heart is to understand the Church's attitude toward those who do not share the faith of Jesus First of all, I asked if the Christian God forgives those who do not believe and do not look for the faith. Given that - and this is the key thing

- God's mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere heart and contrite, the question for those who do not believe in God is to obey his own conscience. Sin, even for those with no faith, there when you go against conscience. Listen and obey it means, in fact, decide in the face of what is perceived as good or as bad. And on this decision to play the goodness or evil of our actions."



and here's the link

Papa Francesco scrive a Repubblica: "Dialogo aperto con i non credenti" - Repubblica.it

What the Pope is saying is that it matters what's in your heart, not whether you believe, or what your faith is. I may not agree with his religion, but I do like this new Pope, and respect his efforts.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I also asked: "Is it worse than not believing at all?" This is a general question..........not a personal attack.

But you also made the assumption that I am not willing to live with the choices I've made. At which point you changed from a general discussion to a personal accusation. And I am wondering on what grounds did you see it correct to accuse me of anything?

It's like pulling teeth, to get a straight answer.




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I have given a straight answer....you just don't like the answer I gave.....

You never answered this question.

"If one of your children comes to you one day and says, "mom, I just don't believe this outrageous story. I'm an atheist." Do you feel your child deserves to burn in hell for eternity"


It's a simple yes or no question.



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[Rationalist1016]

no, I think its pretty obvious I didn't....I said I was willing to live with the consequences if I've made the wrong choice....

I also asked: "Is it worse than not believing at all?" This is a general question..........not a personal attack.

But you also made the assumption that I am not willing to live with the choices I've made. At which point you changed from a general discussion to a personal accusation. And I am wondering on what grounds did you see it correct to accuse me of anything?

we are in the middle of a discussion of whether God is evil for requiring people to make a choice.....was I wrong to assume that if you are complaining about having to make a choice you are worried about making the wrong one?......

First of all. I never mentioned god being evil or questioned if he was evil. You have inserted THAT into the conversation. My question simply stemmed from your statement that when non-believers die........."and take your chances". I am simply asking, aren't believers "taking their chances" as well? In regards to the multitude of other religions and proposed gods?
Because your original statement was referring to non-believers, I understood that to mean that they are taking their chances.................as opposed to believers, that are not?

As to the living with my choices. I never once "complained" about having to make choices with how I live my life. I was asking a question.
Please explain how questioning ones choices, is in anyway akin to complaining about having to MAKE choices?

 

[Avatar4321]

It's like pulling teeth, to get a straight answer.




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I have given a straight answer....you just don't like the answer I gave.....

You never answered this question.

"If one of your children comes to you one day and says, "mom, I just don't believe this outrageous story. I'm an atheist." Do you feel your child deserves to burn in hell for eternity"


It's a simple yes or no question.



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The question has the wrong premise. You are assuming you understand Eternal punishment when you don't have a clue about it.

Talk to the Lord. He is your Father, whether you like it or not. He will give you wisdom and teach you things you've never considered if you let Him.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I have given a straight answer....you just don't like the answer I gave.....

You never answered this question.

"If one of your children comes to you one day and says, "mom, I just don't believe this outrageous story. I'm an atheist." Do you feel your child deserves to burn in hell for eternity"


It's a simple yes or no question.



.

The question has the wrong premise. You are assuming you understand Eternal punishment when you don't have a clue about it.

Talk to the Lord. He is your Father, whether you like it or not. He will give you wisdom and teach you things you've never considered if you let Him.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't have a direct line to God, and you don't know any more about him than I do. You may think you do, but you don't.




.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I omitted nothing from my post.

of course you did, I even quoted it previously....
you posted...

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.

but what the link reports he said was

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few. The choice to accept its reach is our own.

the part you did not quote contradicts what you claim he said.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

It's like pulling teeth, to get a straight answer.




.

I have given a straight answer....you just don't like the answer I gave.....

You never answered this question.

"If one of your children comes to you one day and says, "mom, I just don't believe this outrageous story. I'm an atheist." Do you feel your child deserves to burn in hell for eternity"


It's a simple yes or no question.



.

I don't recall seeing you ask that question but yes.....if that is the choice they make that is the result they have chosen.....

 

[Carla_Danger]

I omitted nothing from my post.

of course you did, I even quoted it previously....
you posted...

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.

but what the link reports he said was

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few. The choice to accept its reach is our own.

the part you did not quote contradicts what you claim he said.....

His letter says nothing of the sort. I already explained that was from the Catholic Voice, not his writing. I went to the trouble of finding his actual letter, and you ignored it.


Here is his actual writing. (again)

"This brings me to the three questions that puts me in the article of August 7. It seems to me that, in the first two, what is The heart is to understand the Church's attitude toward those who do not share the faith of Jesus First of all, I asked if the Christian God forgives those who do not believe and do not look for the faith. Given that - and this is the key thing

- God's mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere heart and contrite, the question for those who do not believe in God is to obey his own conscience. Sin, even for those with no faith, there when you go against conscience. Listen and obey it means, in fact, decide in the face of what is perceived as good or as bad. And on this decision to play the goodness or evil of our actions."

 

[PostmodernProph]

First of all. I never mentioned god being evil or questioned if he was evil. You have inserted THAT into the conversation.

obviously its been a part of the conversation and I did not insert it.....

My question simply stemmed from your statement that when non-believers die........."and take your chances". I am simply asking, aren't believers "taking their chances" as well?

and I answered yes......we are.....

As to the living with my choices. I never once "complained" about having to make choices with how I live my life. I was asking a question.
Please explain how questioning ones choices, is in anyway akin to complaining about having to MAKE choices?

my mistake....as I said, I thought you were continuing the argument that God was somehow in the wrong for leaving you with the consequences of your choice....

 

[PostmodernProph]

I omitted nothing from my post.

of course you did, I even quoted it previously....
you posted...


but what the link reports he said was

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few. The choice to accept its reach is our own.

the part you did not quote contradicts what you claim he said.....

His letter says nothing of the sort.

are you saying I made up the second sentence?....because I did not.....it obviously came from the same place as the first sentence which you quoted......