Why Would a God Care If I Believe In Him/Her?

[PostmodernProph]

That just blows my mind. That's pretty shitty. But then, you do worship a God that committed genocide on the very people he created, for being imperfect, just the way he created them to be.

It's no wonder people are so messed up.

Wowza!

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you choose to go to hell and you consider ME messed up?......

not to mention it was written over 80 year later

its good you don't mention it.....it isn't true and it makes you look really stupid to repeat it as many times as you have.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

- God's mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere heart and contrite

can you explain to me how someone who denies the existence of God goes to him with a sincere and contrite heart to accept his mercy?.......

Sure, you don't have to believe in a God to be a good person, and if there is an all knowing God, he/she will know what is in your heart.



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what about the "going to him with a contrite heart" part?.....do you know the meaning of contrite......do you understand the concept of "going to him".....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Then I have nothing to worry about, and shouldn't try to do a damn thing. If I go out and murder today, God is actually doing it for me.

You are acting like a petulant child who asks questions, not because you want to know the answers, but because you want to argue with others. You only have superficial knowledge of the subject.

You mistakenly assumed that God need man to believe in Him, that He is somehow diminished by man choosing to not believe in God. That is not true because God cannot be diminished. God will save all those who He elected to save. That means that man cannot choose to believe in God through man's own effort, except that God acts on man's will and bring him to belief.

“Unconditional Election” is the “U” of “TULIP”, the Five Points of Calvinism, the Reformed Doctrine of Salvation. God unconditionally elects those whom He is going to save. Or, in the language of today’s Scripture, God chooses those whom He will bring near to Himself to make holy.

“How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.” Psalm 65:4.

“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.” Ephesians 1:3-6.

This is why people don't like fundies.



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lol.....you just said you knew some good Presbyterians......the Presbyterians also teach what you've just mislabeled as "fundie"......what makes it funnier is that one of the things that distinguishes Calvinists from fundamentalists is that fundamentalists reject the concept of predestination.....

 

[Carla_Danger]

You are acting like a petulant child who asks questions, not because you want to know the answers, but because you want to argue with others. You only have superficial knowledge of the subject.

You mistakenly assumed that God need man to believe in Him, that He is somehow diminished by man choosing to not believe in God. That is not true because God cannot be diminished. God will save all those who He elected to save. That means that man cannot choose to believe in God through man's own effort, except that God acts on man's will and bring him to belief.

This is why people don't like fundies.



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lol.....you just said you knew some good Presbyterians......the Presbyterians also teach what you've just mislabeled as "fundie"......what makes it funnier is that one of the things that distinguishes Calvinists from fundamentalists is that fundamentalists reject the concept of predestination.....

I'm talking about fundamentalist who take every word of the Bible literally and to the extreme. I didn't realize the extremist are restricted to particular churches.





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[Carla_Danger]

can you explain to me how someone who denies the existence of God goes to him with a sincere and contrite heart to accept his mercy?.......

Sure, you don't have to believe in a God to be a good person, and if there is an all knowing God, he/she will know what is in your heart.



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what about the "going to him with a contrite heart" part?.....do you know the meaning of contrite......do you understand the concept of "going to him".....

Don't you get condescending with me. Did they teach you to act like that at your church? You're certainly not a very positive model for your church, and hopefully you're not their spokesperson...although, that would explain why your church attendance is down.

Why would I need to believe in a God to feel guilt or sorrow?





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[Carla_Danger]

you choose to go to hell and you consider ME messed up?......

not to mention it was written over 80 year later

its good you don't mention it.....it isn't true and it makes you look really stupid to repeat it as many times as you have.....

You just now reminded me of the very reason I stopped going to church, way back before I let go of God.

I stopped because of the fake, phony, back stabbing, stuffy, shallow, self serving, members. It was a Sunday morning fashion show. I remember thinking, why go if you can't be yourself...why bother?

And now that I'm an atheist, I finally found a church that I enjoy, and can be myself. Funny how things work out.




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[Rationalist1016]

obviously its been a part of the conversation and I did not insert it.....

Then I think I found the root of our misunderstanding. You say "obviously its been a part of the conversation" (god being evil). But at no time did I say, mention, hint or elude to evil in any way. The conversation has been about "what if we are wrong about our choices and what effect those choices have on us when we die." The fact that you went straight to defending god as not evil, when questioned on the choices of believing or not believing, tells me alot. Because it is obvious TO YOU that I was somehow insinuating god as being evil. When an honest reading of our conversation will shown that I did no such thing. Thus, it was NOT part of the conversation.

As far as my initial question. I appreciate you clarifying your answer as "yes".

/sigh.....look, that was the discussion I was engaged in......you stepped into the argument by quoting me and asking a question......I had been defending God as not evil and pointing out the stupidity of saying he was before you ever showed up......if you didn't want to be involved in that debate don't enter it......meanwhile, fuck off.....

/sigh............how pious of you........

Hopefully the next person I ask a question of, can just answer and we can move on to a productive conversation. As opposed to the redirected mess you turned this into. And which you ended so maturely.

 

[Care4all]

Why would you care of your child believes in you?

I'm not going to sentence my kid to an eternity of torment if she doesn't believe in my existence, especially after I give her free will.

Hellfire and brimstone are creations of Judeo-Christian Mythology . The only Hell is the one we create for ourselves . How many parents raise a Child - do everything right - yet that kid descends into a life of debauchery, drug addiction, alcoholism - a Life of Hell - self imposed - certainly not imposed by the parent.

Regardless of our debauchery moments and lifestyle, regardless of our denial of Him, as with the story of the Prodigal Son, when we've even reached our lowest points, opened arms by Our Father, are still there for us, when we come home.

I don't think God is this boogey man that people make Him out to be.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I'm not going to sentence my kid to an eternity of torment if she doesn't believe in my existence, especially after I give her free will.

Hellfire and brimstone are creations of Judeo-Christian Mythology . The only Hell is the one we create for ourselves . How many parents raise a Child - do everything right - yet that kid descends into a life of debauchery, drug addiction, alcoholism - a Life of Hell - self imposed - certainly not imposed by the parent.

Regardless of our debauchery moments and lifestyle, regardless of our denial of Him, as with the story of the Prodigal Son, when we've even reached our lowest points, opened arms by Our Father, are still there for us, when we come home.

I don't think God is this boogey man that people make Him out to be.

Have you read the Old Testament? LOL!





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[PostmodernProph]

This is why people don't like fundies.



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lol.....you just said you knew some good Presbyterians......the Presbyterians also teach what you've just mislabeled as "fundie"......what makes it funnier is that one of the things that distinguishes Calvinists from fundamentalists is that fundamentalists reject the concept of predestination.....

I'm talking about fundamentalist who take every word of the Bible literally and to the extreme. I didn't realize the extremist are restricted to particular churches.





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/sigh......this is hardly a case of extreme literalism.....fundamentalists can also be reactionary......are YOU a fundamentalist?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Sure, you don't have to believe in a God to be a good person, and if there is an all knowing God, he/she will know what is in your heart.



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what about the "going to him with a contrite heart" part?.....do you know the meaning of contrite......do you understand the concept of "going to him".....

Don't you get condescending with me. Did they teach you to act like that at your church? You're certainly not a very positive model for your church, and hopefully you're not their spokesperson...although, that would explain why your church attendance is down.

Why would I need to believe in a God to feel guilt or sorrow?





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you do recall what we are debating, right?....what the pope said......you claimed he didn't say that people still needed to believe in God.....I quoted him, from the same letter you used as authority, as saying they did.....now, if the definition of "condescension" includes totally destroying your lame argument, then yes.......I was condescending.......sorry.....

incidentally, you don't need to believe in God to feel guilt or sorrow.....you just need to believe in him to accept the gift of his salvation.......just ask the pope......

 

[PostmodernProph]

not to mention it was written over 80 year later

its good you don't mention it.....it isn't true and it makes you look really stupid to repeat it as many times as you have.....

You just now reminded me of the very reason I stopped going to church, way back before I let go of God.

I stopped because of the fake, phony, back stabbing, stuffy, shallow, self serving, members. It was a Sunday morning fashion show. I remember thinking, why go if you can't be yourself...why bother?

And now that I'm an atheist, I finally found a church that I enjoy, and can be myself. Funny how things work out.

not an unusual reaction....you say something stupid.....I point at it and prove you are stupid.....you don't like it.......I understand.....if being proved stupid caused you to leave the church, I'm sorry.......but that doesn't excuse the fact you were stupid.....

 

[Carla_Danger]

its good you don't mention it.....it isn't true and it makes you look really stupid to repeat it as many times as you have.....

You just now reminded me of the very reason I stopped going to church, way back before I let go of God.

I stopped because of the fake, phony, back stabbing, stuffy, shallow, self serving, members. It was a Sunday morning fashion show. I remember thinking, why go if you can't be yourself...why bother?

And now that I'm an atheist, I finally found a church that I enjoy, and can be myself. Funny how things work out.

not an unusual reaction....you say something stupid.....I point at it and prove you are stupid.....you don't like it.......I understand.....if being proved stupid caused you to leave the church, I'm sorry.......but that doesn't excuse the fact you were stupid.....

You were responding to sealybobo, calling him/her stupid. It just reminded me of why I dislike fake Christians. Anyhoot, Christian's are funny. They are the ones who believe a man lived inside a whale, but everyone else is stupid. LOL!




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[Carla_Danger]

what about the "going to him with a contrite heart" part?.....do you know the meaning of contrite......do you understand the concept of "going to him".....

Don't you get condescending with me. Did they teach you to act like that at your church? You're certainly not a very positive model for your church, and hopefully you're not their spokesperson...although, that would explain why your church attendance is down.

Why would I need to believe in a God to feel guilt or sorrow?





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you do recall what we are debating, right?....what the pope said......you claimed he didn't say that people still needed to believe in God.....I quoted him, from the same letter you used as authority, as saying they did.....now, if the definition of "condescension" includes totally destroying your lame argument, then yes.......I was condescending.......sorry.....

incidentally, you don't need to believe in God to feel guilt or sorrow.....you just need to believe in him to accept the gift of his salvation.......just ask the pope......

Strange, everyone else gets it but you. Why would an atheist go to God, when we don't even believe he/she exists. That is exactly why the Pope added....

for those who do not believe in God is to obey his own conscience. Sin, even for those with no faith, there when you go against conscience. Listen and obey it means, in fact, decide in the face of what is perceived as good or as bad. And on this decision to play the goodness or evil of our actions."

 

[saveliberty]

I can understand why a nonbeliever needs to feel smarter than a believer. I also understand why the nonbeliever needs God. God gives them a choice, so it follows I must give them a choice as well.

 

[Carla_Danger]

obviously its been a part of the conversation and I did not insert it.....

Then I think I found the root of our misunderstanding. You say "obviously its been a part of the conversation" (god being evil). But at no time did I say, mention, hint or elude to evil in any way. The conversation has been about "what if we are wrong about our choices and what effect those choices have on us when we die." The fact that you went straight to defending god as not evil, when questioned on the choices of believing or not believing, tells me alot. Because it is obvious TO YOU that I was somehow insinuating god as being evil. When an honest reading of our conversation will shown that I did no such thing. Thus, it was NOT part of the conversation.

As far as my initial question. I appreciate you clarifying your answer as "yes".

/sigh.....look, that was the discussion I was engaged in......you stepped into the argument by quoting me and asking a question......I had been defending God as not evil and pointing out the stupidity of saying he was before you ever showed up......if you didn't want to be involved in that debate don't enter it......meanwhile, fuck off.....

Spoken like a true Christian. LOL!

 

[Carla_Danger]

I can understand why a nonbeliever needs to feel smarter than a believer. I also understand why the nonbeliever needs God. God gives them a choice, so it follows I must give them a choice as well.

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

 

[Carla_Danger]

lol.....you just said you knew some good Presbyterians......the Presbyterians also teach what you've just mislabeled as "fundie"......what makes it funnier is that one of the things that distinguishes Calvinists from fundamentalists is that fundamentalists reject the concept of predestination.....

I'm talking about fundamentalist who take every word of the Bible literally and to the extreme. I didn't realize the extremist are restricted to particular churches.





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/sigh......this is hardly a case of extreme literalism.....fundamentalists can also be reactionary......are YOU a fundamentalist?......

Absolutely not.




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[saveliberty]

You seem to think Christians are perfect or need to be so, that is not the case. We sin, we know it. Sometimes it is the result of another party baiting us over a period of time. Part of that is on you too.

Interesting you have this need to feel superior and attack other's beliefs, yet when yours are challenged that person is a bad Christian. I'm sure you think you are winning some important contest, enjoy the spoils. Doesn't change a thing.

 

[Carla_Danger]

You seem to think Christians are perfect or need to be so, that is not the case. We sin, we know it. Sometimes it is the result of another party baiting us over a period of time. Part of that is on you too.

Interesting you have this need to feel superior and attack other's beliefs, yet when yours are challenged that person is a bad Christian. I'm sure you think you are winning some important contest, enjoy the spoils. Doesn't change a thing.

Oh yes, there's that "conservative" personal responsibility I've grown accustomed to. LOL!

Do you normally blame your behavior on others? You're an adult, right? I think it's time you take responsibility for you....




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