“Without peace with the Palestinians, Israel can never live in peace”

[Lesh]

who told you that---JIBRIL in the bat cave? I am amazed that you have the
intellect to write REACTION-----ISLAMO NAZI DOG!!!!!

Wow. You’re really off the rails here.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You’re right. The Israeli reaction HAS already started and it will be every bit as horrific as the Hamas attack but on a grander scale

and yet they warned people to leave and have taken days to enter instead of right away. You lot always whine and make shit up. When proven wrong you never admit it and do the same thing the next time Arabs murder Jews, defending the Arabs and attacking the Jews for defending themselves.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Israel's actions, are not a matter of "revenge". They are a matter of "survival".

 

[irosie91]

and yet they warned people to leave and have taken days to enter instead of right away. You lot always whine and make shit up. When proven wrong you never admit it and do the same thing the next time Arabs murder Jews, defending the Arabs and attacking the Jews for defending themselves.

so true----so far Israel has tried to clear the area for the INEVITABLE
confrontation brought about by islamic gross murder and kidnapping
and mutilation (for the glory of allah)----but the islamo nazis are already
writing their version

 

[Lesh]

and yet they warned people to leave and have taken days to enter instead of right away. You lot always whine and make shit up. When proven wrong you never admit it and do the same thing the next time Arabs murder Jews, defending the Arabs and attacking the Jews for defending themselves.

So you have an area with the densest population in the world (or damn close to it) and you “move” one million people to an area the same size as the evacuated area that already has a million people in it.

Yea what could go wrong….

 

[irosie91]

So you have an area with the densest population in the world (or damn close to it) and you “move” one million people to an area the same size as the evacuated area that already has a million people in it.

Yea what could go wrong….

who "moved" whom? The arabs who are in the arab created theatre of war do not
have to go to south Gaza---they can go to one of DOZENS OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES
INTO THE ARMS OF THEIR LOVING BRETHEREN. Sharm el Sheikh is beautiful this time
of year

 

[ozro]

I joined the Army during the Reagan years. I mention that as an indicator of my age and experience.

When I was growing up I learned that compromise was the key to success in deals, and in politics. You have to meet somewhere in the middle and walk away with a deal that you don’t live, but you can live with. The other side doesn’t live it, but they can live with it.

What happened is that we started to highlight the voices on the extreme. The extreme right and the extreme left. We used those extremes to gun up support for our side. And soon we as a people began believing the propaganda. In that we aren’t alone. History is filled with examples of similar behavior.

It’s comforting to think our side is good and their side is bad. It’s a lot easier to do that than explain the nuances of the positions.

I have mocked a lot of people on the right, and left. I don’t overstate their importance, or their support. I try and filter everything through my core beliefs.

I tend to reject radicals on both sides. They aren’t the enemy. They are just people who are more passionate than I believe is wise. I just don’t have the energy or the time to hate that much.

Nice post, thank you for serving. Compromise is preferred in most cases.
In some cases, as with terrorists and their backers, compromise is not possible and is in fact simply more evil. In order to defeat terrorists and their backers, the only response is radical. Otherwise we only see more of it.
I believe we are in an undeclared world war, and there can be no compromise. Compromise will simply prolong war.

 

[22lcidw]

So you have an area with the densest population in the world (or damn close to it) and you “move” one million people to an area the same size as the evacuated area that already has a million people in it.

Yea what could go wrong….

Thats not true with the densest population. Many cities have much more in those square miles.

 

[lennypartiv]

Lisa558, do you realize Hamas is in many mideast countries?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Lisa558, do you realize Hamas is in many mideast countries?

they rule Gaza and besides murdering over 1000 Israeli and foreign citizens are now actively trying to prevent the people from leaving the target zone with roadblocks.

 

[lennypartiv]

they rule Gaza and besides murdering over 1000 Israeli and foreign citizens are now actively trying to prevent the people from leaving the target zone with roadblocks.

You can't eliminate Hamas without going into all the countries they are in.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Who is uninformed?

What do you call someone who takes your house and land by force? I rightly call that person a terrorist. Don't just concentrate on current events, go back to 1948, to the source and the cause of the bloodshed ever since. Did you know that in 1947 94% of Palestinian land was controlled by Arabs and only 6% by Jews. In 1948 Arabs controlled only 22% of land and Jews 78% of land. By 1967 100% of land was controlled by Jews. Convictions should be based on truth.

I bet you cheered when the Towers fell, Pentagon damaged and more than 4,000 people lost their lives on 9/11.

 

[Lisa558]

Lisa558, do you realize Hamas is in many mideast countries?

Yes, I know. And they’ve infiltrated American colleges, which explains all now brainwashed the students are.

 

[Lesh]

Yes, I know. And they’ve infiltrated American colleges, which explains all now brainwashed the students are.

Paranoid much?

Infiltrated your ass

 

[irosie91]

Paranoid much?

Infiltrated your ass

you raise an interesting point, lesh. When REAL psychiatrists manage a case of
"paranoia" ----they make sure that the ideation is not FACT---they do not assume---
only an ASS does that

 

[beautress]

I urge fellow members to make the effort to read the entire deeply emotive & eloquent article below written by an Israeli journalist. Amid terror, bloodshed, destruction and total chaos, one should still try to hold on to their humanity.

In our civilised world, revenge is not justice!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts:

“We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer”. By Orly Noy, Israeli journalist and editor at the Hebrew-language news magazine Local Call.

We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer | Orly Noy

We are in shock as we digest the Hamas attacks and the failings of Netanyahu’s government. The worry now is what comes next.

It is still impossible to digest these darker-than-dark days that began with sirens jolting us awake on Saturday morning, a day that seems endless and probably won’t end for many days to come. The thought of the abductees in the Gaza Strip is crumpling me down with pain. Every thought of them leaves a layer of terror on the skin. The images and reports of bodies strewn in every corner, of families held hostage for hours as human shields in their own homes by Hamas militants, still haunt the mind, freezing the heart.

The absolute shock caused by Hamas’s attack on southern towns has taken various forms as the hours pass: fear, helplessness, anger, and above all, a deep sense of chaos. The colossal failures of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government and the security apparatus are converging into a sense of total breakdown. The intelligence system, which surveils every aspect of Palestinians’ lives in Gaza and the West Bank, had no prior knowledge of the attack; civilians were left defenceless for many hours against Hamas militants, who trapped them in their homes and slaughtered them without military intervention – the same military tasked with protecting every settler in the West Bank at any given moment.

Amid this absolute chaos, Netanyahu addressed citizens late on Saturday: a hollow statement with slogans such as “we will win”, “we will strike them”, “we will annihilate terrorism”. He is a man of many slogans. He promises Israel will “take mighty vengeance” and that “the enemy will pay an unprecedented price”, suffering “return fire of a magnitude that the enemy has not known”.

That language is deliberate. For while a traumatised Israeli public is not yet ready to seek the deep political and moral reckoning this catastrophe demands, the anger already directed towards Netanyahu is palpable. A prime minister entangled in legal proceedings appointed, to suit his own political needs, people who were not only extremely hawkish but also highly unprofessional – and put them in charge of our security. Rightfully he is now seen as personally responsible. He seeks to save his own political skin, once again, by urging the Knesset to establish a national emergency government, much like the one he formed three years ago with the leader of the National Unity party, Benny Gantz, under the pretext of a coronavirus response. But even without that national emergency government being formed, the Jewish opposition in the Knesset fully supports the government’s deadly attack on Gaza. And they are not alone: many Israelis want to see the entire Gaza Strip pay an unprecedented price.

The public desire for revenge is both understandable and terrifying, but the erasure of any moral red line is always a frightening thing.

It is important not to minimise or condone the heinous crimes committed by Hamas. But it is also important to remind ourselves that everything it is inflicting on us now, we have been inflicting on the Palestinians for years. Indiscriminate firing, including at children and older people; intrusion into their homes; burning down their houses; taking hostages – not just fighters but civilians, children and older people. I keep reminding myself that ignoring this context is giving up a piece of my own humanity. Because violence devoid of any context leads to only one possible response: revenge. And I don’t want revenge from anyone. Because revenge is the opposite of security, it is the opposite of peace, it is also the opposite of justice. It is nothing but more violence.

I maintain that there are crimes of abundance and there are crimes of hunger, and we have not only brought Gaza to the brink of starvation, we have brought it to a state of collapse. Always in the name of security. How much security did we get? Where will another round of revenge take us?

Terrible crimes were committed against Israelis this Saturday, crimes that the mind cannot fathom – and in this time of dark grief, I cling to the one thing I have left to hold on to: my humanity. The absolute belief that this hell is not predestined. Not for us, nor for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Replies to the above article:

Thank you, Orly Noy, for capturing the horror, terror and desolate grief with a fair accountability of how such a heinous attack comes into being (We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer, 9 October). Two days before the horrific attack by Hamas, I finished reading the anthology Light in Gaza, by Palestinians writing about their lives under 16 years of Israel’s blockade. It is profound, inspiring, heart-wrenching, and powerfully important to help understand how hate is perpetuated by ongoing oppression and persecution, which feeds the violence of Hamas.

The attacks by Hamas are horrific and so are the retaliation strikes and blockade of food and water and medical supplies for more than 2 million people.

Had we acknowledged that we built modern Israel on stolen land and that 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled; had we made some effort at reparations; had we treated Palestinians with the same rights as we treat Israeli Jews; had there been one law for all people, as taught by Leviticus 24:22, it is much more likely that so much of this violence could have been prevented.

But a justice system that allows ongoing theft and violence against a people can only lead to deepening rage and violence. May we learn from these attacks and fight against all injustice and violence. May we grieve all of the deaths, wounding and horrific oppression.


Harriet Cooke-Cohen
Portland, Oregon, US

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is with horror and deep sorrow that I read about the latest violence in Israel and Palestine. I feel so sad for all those people, Palestinian and Israeli, who have been working with all they have towards finding a just and lasting peace. Fighting and violence, whether it’s Hamas or the Israeli military, is the same: violence and disaster for civilians and for humanity. The only answer is to dissolve violence, aggression, guns and walls, and accept that what you sow, you reap.

If security is required, a true feeling of safety will need to be fostered for all occupants and generations in Israel and Palestine. How much money has the US given to Israel for weapons and military security? These funds need to go towards reconciliation, towards working for a genuine lasting peace in Palestine and Israel.


Karen Sillence
Bristol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a phrase used in Northern Ireland during the Troubles – “acceptable level of violence”. The Israeli people have lived like this since the last intifada, or perhaps since 1967. Surely history should have taught them that you cannot live like this for ever. They will have to come to an accommodation with the Palestinian people sooner rather than later. Dismissing them as terrorists will not work. The former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, who had some experience of terrorism, knew this, which was why he sought peace with Egypt and Jordan. A future Israeli government will have to do the same. The present administration never will.


Brian Dermody
Blessington, County Wicklow, Ireland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost exactly a year ago, the Palestinian lawyer and writer Raja Shehadeh wrote that “without peace with the Palestinians, Israel can never live in peace” (14 October 2022). Still desperately true, as the front-page headline on your print edition on Monday – “Violence escalates as death toll surges over 1,000” – makes clear.


Margaret and Robin Derbyshire
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

<<<<<<<G-O-N-G>>>>>>>> You're wrong! Israelis aren't going to put up with daily snipers until only one is left. Their leaders have taken the same oath our leaders take -- to provide for the common defense. We hear that oath given at the time of the new President's inauguration and swearing in ceremony. And cowards only make it to the Oval Office if there's something peculiar about the voting inconsistency with omerta polls.

 

[August West]

Geez, why are the Palestinians so pissed off?

maps of palestine through the decades - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

Geez, why are the Palestinians so pissed off?

maps of palestine through the decades - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Beats being pissed on.

 

[Lisa558]

Paranoid much?

Infiltrated your ass

You’re ignorant as to what is going on in liberal universities. The anti-Israel fervor didn’t just happen. Wealthy antisemitic Arab countries have bought their way in.

 

[beautress]

I urge fellow members to make the effort to read the entire deeply emotive & eloquent article below written by an Israeli journalist. Amid terror, bloodshed, destruction and total chaos, one should still try to hold on to their humanity.

In our civilised world, revenge is not justice!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts:

“We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer”. By Orly Noy, Israeli journalist and editor at the Hebrew-language news magazine Local Call.

We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer | Orly Noy

We are in shock as we digest the Hamas attacks and the failings of Netanyahu’s government. The worry now is what comes next.

It is still impossible to digest these darker-than-dark days that began with sirens jolting us awake on Saturday morning, a day that seems endless and probably won’t end for many days to come. The thought of the abductees in the Gaza Strip is crumpling me down with pain. Every thought of them leaves a layer of terror on the skin. The images and reports of bodies strewn in every corner, of families held hostage for hours as human shields in their own homes by Hamas militants, still haunt the mind, freezing the heart.

The absolute shock caused by Hamas’s attack on southern towns has taken various forms as the hours pass: fear, helplessness, anger, and above all, a deep sense of chaos. The colossal failures of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government and the security apparatus are converging into a sense of total breakdown. The intelligence system, which surveils every aspect of Palestinians’ lives in Gaza and the West Bank, had no prior knowledge of the attack; civilians were left defenceless for many hours against Hamas militants, who trapped them in their homes and slaughtered them without military intervention – the same military tasked with protecting every settler in the West Bank at any given moment.

Amid this absolute chaos, Netanyahu addressed citizens late on Saturday: a hollow statement with slogans such as “we will win”, “we will strike them”, “we will annihilate terrorism”. He is a man of many slogans. He promises Israel will “take mighty vengeance” and that “the enemy will pay an unprecedented price”, suffering “return fire of a magnitude that the enemy has not known”.

That language is deliberate. For while a traumatised Israeli public is not yet ready to seek the deep political and moral reckoning this catastrophe demands, the anger already directed towards Netanyahu is palpable. A prime minister entangled in legal proceedings appointed, to suit his own political needs, people who were not only extremely hawkish but also highly unprofessional – and put them in charge of our security. Rightfully he is now seen as personally responsible. He seeks to save his own political skin, once again, by urging the Knesset to establish a national emergency government, much like the one he formed three years ago with the leader of the National Unity party, Benny Gantz, under the pretext of a coronavirus response. But even without that national emergency government being formed, the Jewish opposition in the Knesset fully supports the government’s deadly attack on Gaza. And they are not alone: many Israelis want to see the entire Gaza Strip pay an unprecedented price.

The public desire for revenge is both understandable and terrifying, but the erasure of any moral red line is always a frightening thing.

It is important not to minimise or condone the heinous crimes committed by Hamas. But it is also important to remind ourselves that everything it is inflicting on us now, we have been inflicting on the Palestinians for years. Indiscriminate firing, including at children and older people; intrusion into their homes; burning down their houses; taking hostages – not just fighters but civilians, children and older people. I keep reminding myself that ignoring this context is giving up a piece of my own humanity. Because violence devoid of any context leads to only one possible response: revenge. And I don’t want revenge from anyone. Because revenge is the opposite of security, it is the opposite of peace, it is also the opposite of justice. It is nothing but more violence.

I maintain that there are crimes of abundance and there are crimes of hunger, and we have not only brought Gaza to the brink of starvation, we have brought it to a state of collapse. Always in the name of security. How much security did we get? Where will another round of revenge take us?

Terrible crimes were committed against Israelis this Saturday, crimes that the mind cannot fathom – and in this time of dark grief, I cling to the one thing I have left to hold on to: my humanity. The absolute belief that this hell is not predestined. Not for us, nor for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Replies to the above article:

Thank you, Orly Noy, for capturing the horror, terror and desolate grief with a fair accountability of how such a heinous attack comes into being (We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer, 9 October). Two days before the horrific attack by Hamas, I finished reading the anthology Light in Gaza, by Palestinians writing about their lives under 16 years of Israel’s blockade. It is profound, inspiring, heart-wrenching, and powerfully important to help understand how hate is perpetuated by ongoing oppression and persecution, which feeds the violence of Hamas.

The attacks by Hamas are horrific and so are the retaliation strikes and blockade of food and water and medical supplies for more than 2 million people.

Had we acknowledged that we built modern Israel on stolen land and that 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled; had we made some effort at reparations; had we treated Palestinians with the same rights as we treat Israeli Jews; had there been one law for all people, as taught by Leviticus 24:22, it is much more likely that so much of this violence could have been prevented.

But a justice system that allows ongoing theft and violence against a people can only lead to deepening rage and violence. May we learn from these attacks and fight against all injustice and violence. May we grieve all of the deaths, wounding and horrific oppression.


Harriet Cooke-Cohen
Portland, Oregon, US

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is with horror and deep sorrow that I read about the latest violence in Israel and Palestine. I feel so sad for all those people, Palestinian and Israeli, who have been working with all they have towards finding a just and lasting peace. Fighting and violence, whether it’s Hamas or the Israeli military, is the same: violence and disaster for civilians and for humanity. The only answer is to dissolve violence, aggression, guns and walls, and accept that what you sow, you reap.

If security is required, a true feeling of safety will need to be fostered for all occupants and generations in Israel and Palestine. How much money has the US given to Israel for weapons and military security? These funds need to go towards reconciliation, towards working for a genuine lasting peace in Palestine and Israel.


Karen Sillence
Bristol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a phrase used in Northern Ireland during the Troubles – “acceptable level of violence”. The Israeli people have lived like this since the last intifada, or perhaps since 1967. Surely history should have taught them that you cannot live like this for ever. They will have to come to an accommodation with the Palestinian people sooner rather than later. Dismissing them as terrorists will not work. The former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, who had some experience of terrorism, knew this, which was why he sought peace with Egypt and Jordan. A future Israeli government will have to do the same. The present administration never will.


Brian Dermody
Blessington, County Wicklow, Ireland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost exactly a year ago, the Palestinian lawyer and writer Raja Shehadeh wrote that “without peace with the Palestinians, Israel can never live in peace” (14 October 2022). Still desperately true, as the front-page headline on your print edition on Monday – “Violence escalates as death toll surges over 1,000” – makes clear.


Margaret and Robin Derbyshire
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

If you think Israel is going to lay back and play dead while the guests of their renters behead their newborns and BTK their women, you are mistaken.