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yes. and prosecutors who do sexual abuse cases know that their clients are always fragile. it is their job to walk their victim through the process in the family case, they might not have even needed to put the child on the stand, but could have possibly used validators who advance the child's case. (since the visitation matter had no witness confrontation issues in that regard).
i've never seen an attorney not pursue a case because of a "fragile" witness.
and you know very well what the prosecutor being admonished for his behavior means.
.
I addressed your issues in a previous post. There are other mitigating factors involved here that neither you or I are privy to. Most importantly, the age of the victim is paramount. Nothing is plain vanilla, no two cases are the same and zealously protecting the legitimate the interests of the client carries a different and more cautious standard with a 7 year old a child of similar age. I am not going to second guess the prosecutor or why he made his decision. It is a done deal.
I have not pursued cases and referred them out at least once because of this type of situation.
any mitigating factors, as you call them, would be the subject of speculation. and given the fact that the prosecutor was smacked on the wrist, i think we can agree that no one believed his excuse. if you also recall, the reason he got smacked down was talking about the case when he wasn't bringing charges. that was inappropriate and unethical.
i don't have to second guess him. that was done for me by the powers that be.
Re the McMartin case:
Judy Johnson, mother of one of the Manhattan Beach, California, preschool's young students, complained to the police that her son had been sodomized by her estranged husband and by McMartin teacher Ray Buckey.
<snip>
Johnson also made several more accusations, including that people at the daycare had sexual encounters with animals, that "Peggy drilled a child under the arms" and "Ray flew in the air."[1][5] Ray Buckey was questioned, but was not prosecuted due to lack of evidence.
Estranged husband, sexual encounters with animals, drilling kids, and Ray flying..
Lots to believe there....
This is why I find your opinion dangerous. People make shit up all the time with nothing to back it up and people like you run with it. It's beyond awful....
You weren't speaking to me, but Allen marrying his daughter is enough to make the scales swing towards Perv rather than Innocent.
she was mia farrow and andre previn's daughter.
creepy but apparently he and soon yi worked out ok, didn't they?
any mitigating factors, as you call them, would be the subject of speculation. and given the fact that the prosecutor was smacked on the wrist, i think we can agree that no one believed his excuse. if you also recall, the reason he got smacked down was talking about the case when he wasn't bringing charges. that was inappropriate and unethical.
i don't have to second guess him. that was done for me by the powers that be.
What bearing does his getting smacked on the wrist for discussing the case when he was not going to prosecute the matter have to do with Allen's guilt or innocence. That would speak more to the attorney's lack of professionalism and breach of ethical cannons.
If you see my post above, I have one issue regarding Allen, "would a reasonably prudent member of the public allow this man near their child and/or would they allow him to be a role model such as a father, moral guide to their child?"
Which is still not the question. I wouldn't leave my child with anybody other than family. So that's a strawman, I do believe.
I also believe you've made that the question so you don't have to own that it is not likely he is guilty of molesting the seven year-old, because there is no evidence.
Get there posts and present them here, more importantly, what relevancy does that have to do with my position (below)?
The problem with some, or perhaps many, adults who experienced abuse as children, is that some see it 'everywhere.' It's like women who have experinced abusive husbands. They seem to be always assessing other marriages based on what they experienced, that men in general tend to be abusers. My point is that rather than having a better take on whether or not abuse is taking place, they have a skewed vision of it and may tend to see it more often, or they my think that there is only one way to assess if it happens, that they have special insight, but they are, in fact, only seeing the situation from the pov of how they experienced it.
Except there are two adult survivors in this thread who believe Woody did not molest Dylan. *if that is the correct child's name*
Even with evidence, you think Allen is innocent because no charges were brought. Yet, I have not one shred of doubt that even though Paula Deen's case with was dismissed, you believe that she is guilty.
Get there posts and present them here, more importantly, what relevancy does that have to do with my position (below)?
The problem with some, or perhaps many, adults who experienced abuse as children, is that some see it 'everywhere.' It's like women who have experinced abusive husbands. They seem to be always assessing other marriages based on what they experienced, that men in general tend to be abusers. My point is that rather than having a better take on whether or not abuse is taking place, they have a skewed vision of it and may tend to see it more often, or they my think that there is only one way to assess if it happens, that they have special insight, but they are, in fact, only seeing the situation from the pov of how they experienced it.
And some of us feel like some do about false rape accusations - it is a horrid thing to do to present and future victims.
To take fears that many kids share, to take common family interactions, and to use them to turn your daughter into a weapon against your ex ought to be criminal
If not for Soon Yi stealing Mia's BF, Dylan would never have been put thru all she has been thru.
Concocting a false accusation is terrible to all who have and will survive real molestation.
Dylan was determined by hospital staff not to be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy. Almost all second graders can.
When a second grader is expected to act out a grown woman's fantasy, no wonder the girl is befuddled.
And karma will befall Farrow for making it up out of spite and still pulling this shit 20 years later because Allen won a Lifetime Achievement Award.
It is shameful and sick.
Please do not speak for adult survivors- we have our own true voice.
Regards from Rosie
yea hon
I always discuss the emotional impact of a trial with the client and then ask them to rest on that knowledge before we continue
are you, hon?
evidence that you are?
that I am an attorney?
You weren't speaking to me, but Allen marrying his daughter is enough to make the scales swing towards Perv rather than Innocent.
she was mia farrow and andre previn's daughter.
creepy but apparently he and soon yi worked out ok, didn't they?
That's correct. Another couple with a big age difference was Charlie Chaplin and Oona O'Neill (Oona, of course, the daughter of American playwright and Nobel laureate in Literature, Eugene O'Neill.)
They married in 1943 when she was 18 and he was 54, they remained together for 34 years and eight children, until his death in 1977.
No you have no idea what I am talking about and are injecting your own very subjective standard. Further, your position is fallacious because children are left with those other than their parents in many, many ways such as school and extra curricular activities at least I do that. I assess every single person that will be with my child before I leave my child with them, that includes play dates and birthday parties. That is what I am talking about.
I am not here to decide the guilt of a man that has not been to trial. I am here to discuss Woody Allen and view his acts and how they effect the family including the person who made that statement which comprises the body of this discussion.
You want to decide his guilt or innocence there are plenty of people here to do that with.
Okay -- so you absolutely truly have nothing to do with the thread, and what's being discussed here? Your responses make much more sense in that light.
I have everything to do with this thread and discussed that which I felt interested me. We view things differently. I am at a stage in my life where I look at people who would be good for my son or bad for my son. This thread has been very enlightening in both the OP and responses. Which is why I have had meaningful and well thought out discussions with those who I enjoyed sharing thoughts with.
Are you suggesting I leave this thread, am posting in an inappropriate way, derailing or otherwise acting in an untoward manner? In other words I see you are still trying to provoke....
Even with evidence, you think Allen is innocent because no charges were brought. Yet, I have not one shred of doubt that even though Paula Deen's case with was dismissed, you believe that she is guilty.
I believe OJ was guilty:
1) He ran
2) There was blood
3) There was evidence linking him to the scene
4) He had motive
With Dylan please list any evidence. Any will do...
Methinks the loser here is the one defending a perv.
we live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty. Public opinion is not law, i suggest you understand how our nation works before throwing around verdicts.
Allen May have actually done this and if proven he should pay for it under the law. He also may not have done this and nothing should happen.
You would have already been excused from the jury had this gone to a trial. You are unfit and bias.
Good. Cuz I would say hang him by his balls.
evidence that you are?
that I am an attorney?
yes
that I am an attorney?
yes
Show your credentials that prove you are a human.
Get there posts and present them here, more importantly, what relevancy does that have to do with my position (below)?
The problem with some, or perhaps many, adults who experienced abuse as children, is that some see it 'everywhere.' It's like women who have experinced abusive husbands. They seem to be always assessing other marriages based on what they experienced, that men in general tend to be abusers. My point is that rather than having a better take on whether or not abuse is taking place, they have a skewed vision of it and may tend to see it more often, or they my think that there is only one way to assess if it happens, that they have special insight, but they are, in fact, only seeing the situation from the pov of how they experienced it.
And some of us feel like some do about false rape accusations - it is a horrid thing to do to present and future victims.
To take fears that many kids share, to take common family interactions, and to use them to turn your daughter into a weapon against your ex ought to be criminal
If not for Soon Yi stealing Mia's BF, Dylan would never have been put thru all she has been thru.
Concocting a false accusation is terrible to all who have and will survive real molestation.
Dylan was determined by hospital staff not to be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy. Almost all second graders can.
When a second grader is expected to act out a grown woman's fantasy, no wonder the girl is befuddled.
And karma will befall Farrow for making it up out of spite and still pulling this shit 20 years later because Allen won a Lifetime Achievement Award.
It is shameful and sick.
Please do not speak for adult survivors- we have our own true voice.
Regards from Rosie
An interesting read to be sure.
June 8, 1993
Allen Loses to Farrow in Bitter Custody Battle
By PETER MARKS
Describing Woody Allen as a "self-absorbed, untrustworthy and insensitive" father, a judge in Manhattan yesterday rejected his attempt to win custody of his three children and awarded custody to their mother, Mia Farrow.
In a scathing 33-page decision, Acting Justice Elliott Wilk of State Supreme Court denounced Mr. Allen for carrying on an affair with one of Ms. Farrow's daughters, trying to pit family members against one another and lacking knowledge of the most basic aspects of his children's lives.
The judge also denied Mr. Allen immediate visiting rights with his 7-year-old daughter, Dylan Farrow. Last summer Ms. Farrow accused the 57-year-old film maker of molesting the child.
Justice Wilk said it was unlikely that Mr. Allen could be prosecuted for sexual abuse based on the evidence. But while a team of experts concluded that Dylan was not abused, the judge said he found the evidence inconclusive.
AND for you Mia haters out there, the Justice differs with you.
Justice Wilk, however, had few unkind words for Ms. Farrow, whom he commended as a caring and loving mother who had tried to protect her children from what he characterized as Mr. Allen's manipulativeness and insensitivity.
"Ms. Farrow's principal shortcoming with respect to responsible parenting appears to have been her continued relationship with Mr. Allen," he wrote.
On the other hand, Justice Wilk portrayed Mr. Allen as devious, hurtful and unreliable, a father who did not know the names of his son's teachers -- or even which children shared which bedrooms in Ms. Farrow's apartment. Mr. Allen lived in a separate apartment on the other side of Central Park.
Referring to what Dylan's own psychotherapist called Mr. Allen's inappropriately intense behavior toward the little girl, the justice said it was unclear whether Mr. Allen could ever develop "the insight and judgment necessary for him to relate to Dylan appropriately."
AND
The justice said he considered Mr. Allen's affair with Soon-Yi Farrow Previn -- and his inability to comprehend the impact the romance was having on the other children in the Farrow household -- further evidence of his deficiencies as a parent.
"Having isolated Soon-Yi from her family, he left her with no visible support system," Justice Wilk wrote.
Allen Loses to Farrow in Bitter Custody Battle
'nuff said
Quoting from your link, the two passages about the justice's statement is consistent with the asocial aspect of pedophilia.The justice said he considered Mr. Allen's affair with Soon-Yi Farrow Previn -- and his inability to comprehend the impact the romance was having on the other children in the Farrow household -- further evidence of his deficiencies as a parent.
"Having isolated Soon-Yi from her family, he left her with no visible support system," Justice Wilk wrote.
America is a sadder place on account of this celebrity using his star power to excuse himself from accountability for his moral crime against his children Soon-Yi and Dylan, not to mention the confusion he inflicted on the other children in the family whom he horrified with his perversion. I hope those children realize from that justice's statement that someone, and in particular a man, in the human race cares for them and cares for them deeply. Little girls who are abused can grow up very bitter toward the father who abused them. I had such a friend in junior high. Her description of her life around lecherous male relatives was something I didn't quite understand for 10 years.
An interesting read to be sure.
June 8, 1993
Allen Loses to Farrow in Bitter Custody Battle
By PETER MARKS
Describing Woody Allen as a "self-absorbed, untrustworthy and insensitive" father, a judge in Manhattan yesterday rejected his attempt to win custody of his three children and awarded custody to their mother, Mia Farrow.
In a scathing 33-page decision, Acting Justice Elliott Wilk of State Supreme Court denounced Mr. Allen for carrying on an affair with one of Ms. Farrow's daughters, trying to pit family members against one another and lacking knowledge of the most basic aspects of his children's lives.
The judge also denied Mr. Allen immediate visiting rights with his 7-year-old daughter, Dylan Farrow. Last summer Ms. Farrow accused the 57-year-old film maker of molesting the child.
Justice Wilk said it was unlikely that Mr. Allen could be prosecuted for sexual abuse based on the evidence. But while a team of experts concluded that Dylan was not abused, the judge said he found the evidence inconclusive.
AND for you Mia haters out there, the Justice differs with you.
Justice Wilk, however, had few unkind words for Ms. Farrow, whom he commended as a caring and loving mother who had tried to protect her children from what he characterized as Mr. Allen's manipulativeness and insensitivity.
"Ms. Farrow's principal shortcoming with respect to responsible parenting appears to have been her continued relationship with Mr. Allen," he wrote.
On the other hand, Justice Wilk portrayed Mr. Allen as devious, hurtful and unreliable, a father who did not know the names of his son's teachers -- or even which children shared which bedrooms in Ms. Farrow's apartment. Mr. Allen lived in a separate apartment on the other side of Central Park.
Referring to what Dylan's own psychotherapist called Mr. Allen's inappropriately intense behavior toward the little girl, the justice said it was unclear whether Mr. Allen could ever develop "the insight and judgment necessary for him to relate to Dylan appropriately."
AND
The justice said he considered Mr. Allen's affair with Soon-Yi Farrow Previn -- and his inability to comprehend the impact the romance was having on the other children in the Farrow household -- further evidence of his deficiencies as a parent.
"Having isolated Soon-Yi from her family, he left her with no visible support system," Justice Wilk wrote.
Allen Loses to Farrow in Bitter Custody Battle
'nuff said
Quoting from your link, the two passages about the justice's statement is consistent with the asocial aspect of pedophilia.The justice said he considered Mr. Allen's affair with Soon-Yi Farrow Previn -- and his inability to comprehend the impact the romance was having on the other children in the Farrow household -- further evidence of his deficiencies as a parent.
"Having isolated Soon-Yi from her family, he left her with no visible support system," Justice Wilk wrote.
America is a sadder place on account of this celebrity using his star power to excuse himself from accountability for his moral crime against his children Soon-Yi and Dylan, not to mention the confusion he inflicted on the other children in the family whom he horrified with his perversion. I hope those children realize from that justice's statement that someone, and in particular a man, in the human race cares for them and cares for them deeply. Little girls who are abused can grow up very bitter toward the father who abused them. I had such a friend in junior high. Her description of her life around lecherous male relatives was something I didn't quite understand for 10 years.
I think the only way to be unbiased in considering the character of Allen in this situation is to separate the art from the artist. I wonder, if he were any other man, just an ordinary man, not a great director, would people continue to support him? One of my favorite fillms of all films I've ever seen is ANNIE HALL. That hasn't changed. I separate the art from the artist.
If their celeb status (his) were not into play.....he would be sitting in a jail cell.
