Words are cheap, Jane Fonda

[JakeStarkey]

Hundreds of officers and thousands of NCOs left the service because of Iran-Contra.

 

[Sallow]

Has John Kerry been brought up yet?

If not - he should.

Woops - I just did.

Yikes! I did to.

Yeah..and?

What about John Kerry.

He bled for this country.

He saved his men.

And he spoke out against the war.

And conservative bastards lied about his record.

Dailymotion - Kerry Confronts Swift Boat Funder - a News & Politics video

 

[Patrick2]

Has John Kerry been brought up yet?

If not - he should.

Woops - I just did.

Yikes! I did to.

Yeah..and?

What about John Kerry.

He bled for this country.

He saved his men.

And he spoke out against the war.

And conservative bastards lied about his record.

Dailymotion - Kerry Confronts Swift Boat Funder - a News & Politics video

He cut his finger a few times and demanded purple hearts.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Patrick2 in the field would have run from the wartime John Kerry.

Kerry did what the decorations said, and he would have kicked Pat's ass then handed it to him.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Grace
Foxfyre speaks for me and for many others. YOU speak for yourself in your Fonda Ass Kissing.

Grace,

I hope someday you'll show for these innocent vietnamese children:

the same wonderful commiseration and respect you showed for this (marvelous) creature:

Sarah Palin allowed them to be hunted from the air.

Bitch.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr183lk-wQk]‪Aerial Hunting of Wolves in Alaska (short version)‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQobIUE1zTU]‪Brutal: Sarah Palin's Record on Aerial Wolf Hunting‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

You, Grace and I are the 3 official wolf-lovers of the USMB, Sallow so I'm gonna share with you a real story I saw on a wildlife documentary (I'm probably the biggest fan of the genre). It's completely off-topic but who cares??

The show followed the release of two mexican or gray wolves into the wild (sorry I forgot the details). A native american tribe (a branch of the Sioux nation) offered their reservation as a new home for the wolf couple.

When the moment of release finally came, the "chief" came to see the wolves, and said to the male:

"How are you, old fellow?

You disapeared from our lives so long ago and the heart of our tribe got filled with sadness. You left a void in our land and in our lives.

May you and your family prosper again. etc, etc, etc,..."

Then the chief said a prayer in Sioux and the wolves were released.

One has to be made of steel to hold off the tears... the stark contrast between the white and the native american attitude becomes immediately clear for anyone with a functioning brain.

While the european culture viewed the wolf as a competitor to be annihilated and the native american culture worship them as their teacher.

 

[José]

On a more serious note, Sallow, I'm gonna create a thread about ethics, soldiers and wars to solve once and for all our ongoing discussion about US soldiers in Vietnam.

I'll post a link here when it's done.

 

[Patrick2]

Patrick2 in the field would have run from the wartime John Kerry.

Kerry did what the decorations said, and he would have kicked Pat's ass then handed it to him.

Besides his fraudulent purple hearts, he disobeyed orders and ran his ship aground. Then he apparently ran after an unarmed VC and shot him in the back. After that, he came back home and held the fraudulent Winter Soldier "hearings". He married the widow of a rich republican to get his hands on her money.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You rely on the rantings of an alcoholic old man, Pat, who hated Kerry, because Kerry was the real thing and told his superior to stick it up his alcoholic ass. The closer the stories got to the men who actually served on the boats with him, the stories turned out to be those for which he was decorated.

George W. Bush also served competently in the Air National Guard. He did not desert, he did his duty.

People like you, son, should not be permitted to vote.

Perhaps only veterans, who served faithfully like George Washington and Alexander Hamilton and James Monroe, should be allowed to vote.

 

[Wolfmoon]

Janes own father disowned her after that. Out of touch Actors and Actresses should stay out of politics. Jane should have stuck to saving starving dogs and children in Africa. Oh Well, Jane the poor little rich girl will go to her grave labeled a traitor!

 

[Grace]

Originally posted by Grace
Foxfyre speaks for me and for many others. YOU speak for yourself in your Fonda Ass Kissing.

Grace,

I hope someday you'll show for these innocent vietnamese children:

the same wonderful commiseration and respect you showed for this (marvelous) creature:

What makes you think I don't feel pain for those people as much as I do the wolf? What does that have to do with Fonda? I think shes a bitch and I hope she goes to her grave shunned, hated and spit upon because she deserves all that she gets and more.

 

[Grace]

And I liken Palin to be just another Fonda. But Palin is much more stupid.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Janes own father disowned her after that. Out of touch Actors and Actresses should stay out of politics. Jane should have stuck to saving starving dogs and children in Africa. Oh Well, Jane the poor little rich girl will go to her grave labeled a traitor!

Only by the unimportant, ignorant few.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Originally posted by Grace
Foxfyre speaks for me and for many others. YOU speak for yourself in your Fonda Ass Kissing.

Grace,

I hope someday you'll show for these innocent vietnamese children:

the same wonderful commiseration and respect you showed for this (marvelous) creature:

What makes you think I don't feel pain for those people as much as I do the wolf? What does that have to do with Fonda? I think shes a bitch and I hope she goes to her grave shunned, hated and spit upon because she deserves all that she gets and more.

I am sure you feel the pain for those back in the day, don't doubt it for a second. You have every right in your heart, if you wish, to feel that about Fonda. It's also in your heart to let it go, if you wish.

 

[Grace]

Grace,

I hope someday you'll show for these innocent vietnamese children:

the same wonderful commiseration and respect you showed for this (marvelous) creature:

What makes you think I don't feel pain for those people as much as I do the wolf? What does that have to do with Fonda? I think shes a bitch and I hope she goes to her grave shunned, hated and spit upon because she deserves all that she gets and more.

I am sure you feel the pain for those back in the day, don't doubt it for a second. You have every right in your heart, if you wish, to feel that about Fonda. It's also in your heart to let it go, if you wish.

When it comes to Fonda, I don't wish. I will nurture that hate whenever her fucking face or name comes up. Otherwise, I don't rent space in my head thinking about her at all. That's about as important to me that she is. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Squat.
YOU are the one that said you didn't want to hear it from me Jake. In a public thread, in a public forum. Now you sing another tune. Sorry. Not interested in your opinion of what YOU think I should feel.

 

[The Gadfly]

Such a tiny damaged soul you have, tinydancer. Five guys from high school died there. At least another ten were wounded or injured. None of us hate Jane Fonda. You folks who weren't there have no moral legitimacy to hate. Leave it to the vets from then to make the choice.

My husband joined the Marines VOLUNTARILY and went to Viet Nam when he was 17.... if you think what others have said about her were nasty...you should hear the words that come out of his mouth! Most americans that know what she did DO hate her...it was treason and she should have been shot!

That's for your husband to decide, not you. You don't have the moral legitimacy to decide (1) her behavior treasonous, and (2) whether her remorse is true.

Don't like it? I don't care.

Well, Jake, I don't know when or where you served, but I do know I fought in Vietnam, so I think I have the appropriate "standing" to say the following: Jane Fonda gave aid and comfort , and made propaganda, for an armed enemy of the United States in wartime. (I do not care for such silly distinctions as "Vietnam was not a declared war" - morally, and to a soldier fighting there, it WAS a war). That, in my book, is treason. There is no question that Jane Fonda and others, some driven by ideology, some by honest belief, and some by self-aggrandizement, put themselves before their country, and helped the North Vietnamese win a war they lost on the battlefield. In the process, they deprived those of us who served there of the victory we fought, sweated and bled for, and over 58,000 of our brothers died for. Therefore:

Rest assured, that if I had been able somehow to get hold of that American Traitor Bitch, I would have made her look at the faces and mangled bodies of all the Vietnamese women, from toddlers to girls to old women, that her beloved little VC "freedom fighters" raped, mutilated, tortured and murdered, in ways too gruesome to describe here. I wish, that every image of Communist atrocity burned into my brain, and that of every Vietnam vet who saw them, could somehow be etched on her soul, so that she would have to spend eternity with the memory of just what it was she supported. I'd like for her to know just who the REAL murderers, torturers, rapists, and baby killers of Vietnam were, because they sure as hell weren't us Americans! Others may choose to forgive and forget; as for me, I have no interest in meeting any of my former foes, and shaking hands with them; I shake hands with men, NOT murdering, torturing, butchering scum. The enemy were NOT soldiers, they were the dregs of barbaric, depraved humanity! I hate every damn VC and NVA just as much now, as I did then, and I'll forgive Hanoi Jane, when the Jews forgive Hitler! I don't claim to speak for all of us, but the majority of Vietnam vets I know agree with me.

You can lecture me on the frailties of my unforgiving soul, but I promise you this; if I do go to hell for anything I've done, I will make it my personal mission, to hunt down the traitorous soul of that communist bitch, and kick it from one end of hades to the other.

 

[JakeStarkey]

My husband joined the Marines VOLUNTARILY and went to Viet Nam when he was 17.... if you think what others have said about her were nasty...you should hear the words that come out of his mouth! Most americans that know what she did DO hate her...it was treason and she should have been shot!

That's for your husband to decide, not you. You don't have the moral legitimacy to decide (1) her behavior treasonous, and (2) whether her remorse is true.

Don't like it? I don't care.

Well, Jake, I don't know when or where you served, but I do know I fought in Vietnam, so I think I have the appropriate "standing" to say the following: Jane Fonda gave aid and comfort , and made propaganda, for an armed enemy of the United States in wartime. (I do not care for such silly distinctions as "Vietnam was not a declared war" - morally, and to a soldier fighting there, it WAS a war). That, in my book, is treason. There is no question that Jane Fonda and others, some driven by ideology, some by honest belief, and some by self-aggrandizement, put themselves before their country, and helped the North Vietnamese win a war they lost on the battlefield. In the process, they deprived those of us who served there of the victory we fought, sweated and bled for, and over 58,000 of our brothers died for. Therefore:

Rest assured, that if I had been able somehow to get hold of that American Traitor Bitch, I would have made her look at the faces and mangled bodies of all the Vietnamese women, from toddlers to girls to old women, that her beloved little VC "freedom fighters" raped, mutilated, tortured and murdered, in ways too gruesome to describe here. I wish, that every image of Communist atrocity burned into my brain, and that of every Vietnam vet who saw them, could somehow be etched on her soul, so that she would have to spend eternity with the memory of just what it was she supported. I'd like for her to know just who the REAL murderers, torturers, rapists, and baby killers of Vietnam were, because they sure as hell weren't us Americans! Others may choose to forgive and forget; as for me, I have no interest in meeting any of my former foes, and shaking hands with them; I shake hands with men, NOT murdering, torturing, butchering scum. The enemy were NOT soldiers, they were the dregs of barbaric, depraved humanity! I hate every damn VC and NVA just as much now, as I did then, and I'll forgive Hanoi Jane, when the Jews forgive Hitler! I don't claim to speak for all of us, but the majority of Vietnam vets I know agree with me.

You can lecture me on the frailties of my unforgiving soul, but I promise you this; if I do go to hell for anything I've done, I will make it my personal mission, to hunt down the traitorous soul of that communist bitch, and kick it from one end of hades to the other.

The Gadfly, many veterans disagree with your attitude, you know this, yet you want to vent. I understand that, OK, but I have every right to tell you I think you are on a wrong track. A lot of bad things were done in Vietnam, we did a bit of it, for sure, but if you are saying the NVA and the VC were a lot worse, I agree.

 

[Againsheila]

Reagan's dead and Fonda won't be soon enough

The world owes Ronald Reagan a debt of gratitude; he won the Cold War and saved untold generations from slavery.

No offense, but I don't think he "won" the cold war. They just spent so much on arms trying to keep up with us that they went bankrupt. Now we are in the same position. As went the USSR, so goes the USA.

 

[Againsheila]

I could never understand rich left wing born with a silver spoon in their mouths and always had it easy liberals fascination with communism. Hanoi Jane is just one of so many. Ayers father was a CEO. Dohrn grew up in an upper middle class family.

Ted Turner who absolutely admires Castro to death was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. The list of left wing maniacs who came from wealthy families is endless.

Truly strange.

Edit to add: Hanoi Jane was a true believer in communism.

There are a fair number of right wing hacks that were born into upper class families too....

Look at Bush Jr....just for example....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Now that is class warfare: all libs come from upper class families.

Is that stupid, or what?

 

[The Gadfly]

Naw.

The Vietnamese took em out.

Wonder if Ol' Tricky Dick was proud he once supported them.

Seems conservatives could give a shit.

Let's be clear here. The vietnamese didn't topple the khmer rouge regime because they had a tender concern for the 1/3 of the population being killed by them, they did it because after the end of the vietnam war, the khmer rouge attacked vietnam. As for Nixon, he ended the war started by democrats.

Democrats? That's arguable. Eisenhower stopped a general election that would have seen a victory for Ho Chi Mihn.

And it doesn't matter "why' they took the Khmer Rouge out..they took them out. And Nixon ended the war after expanding it and killing over a million Vietnamese.

And he didn't end it because he wanted to, he ended it because of massive protests.

Vietnam has pretty much done right by it's people..it's got a vibrant and fast growing economy. Surprisingly enough..it didn't hold any malice against America either..for what was..a crime and a genocide.

Really, Sallow? 65,000 executions in the "re-education camps"? How about the "boat people"- did your commie pals do right by them? How about the Dega ("Montagnards", to you)? How are THEY being treated by the regime, these days? Do you even care? And to think some of you call ME a "baby killer"! What's ironic, is that some of us American soldiers who supposedly "did nothing but commit war crimes" in Vietnam, had and have more compassion for the Vietnamese people (the innocent civilians) than you liberals have ever had!

By the way, while we are setting the record straight, most of us consider Lt. Calley a sorry disgrace, to the army, to the officer corps, and to America. The record shows that Calley was at best a marginal officer, lacking the requisite qualities of leadership, incompetent, negligent, and unable or unwilling to maintain discipline in his unit; in essence a failure, who under better circumstances would have been weeded out at OCS, and should never have been given command of an infantry platoon. I knew a few of his species in Vietnam, and they were universally despised, though fortunately, most of them never did anything remotely like what Calley did. So far as this former officer is concerned, Calley is NOT a hero, NOT a victim, NOT a martyr, and NOT a scapegoat; just a simple, miserable, wretched failure.