"You didn't get there on your own"

[MuadDib]

I own three fully functional small town bakeries. In each I spent several years being the main baker first learning the business then teaching it to others so they could run it for me. Eventually though, I needed parts for my ovens which were no longer being manufactured so I went to a local machine shop. The owner and I got along well ( especially because I was a CNC machinist for seven years before I started my first bakery ) and eventually I invested in his business. Eventually he wanted to retire so I bought him out. I found a few more cleints and saw an opportunity to gain an account that required a major expansion. I split off a several of my employees into a new busiess to serve that signle account, but eventually expanded to include sevral other accounts. The first machine shop is pretty much a job shop. Small runs of parts from 10 to 1000 parts. The second is in constant production where we run about 30 different parts at least 20,000 parts each year.

The chemical business is something Im trying from scratch. Its a new industry that I think has a lot of potential for accumulating some serious wealth. Better than 1% type wealth. It could pan out...but it could not. So its not something Im putting a lot of eggs from my basket into.

Im a member of the local chamber of commerce and even ran for county commissioner several years back ( I lost oh well ).

I also took over my fathers rental properties for him after he needed triple bypass surgery and couldnt run them himself. He had it soooo screwed up. The last time he rented from anyone all that was reuired was a handshake and he just didnt get that times had changed. I set up his company with background check providers and got the delinquent renters out of his properties and got new paying customers in. When I stepped into his business, it was hemerraging money, when I stepped out, it was in the black. My friends at the time used to joke that I was a part time slum lord.

I did have one major failure. The local dry cleaner was going out of business and I thought I could turn that business around and turn a profit doing it. But I couldnt. It took far too much of my time and I found I couldnt really trust others to do the work well. Half assed work drives away customers. I lost a lot of money on that one. Ah well. Such is life.

So hey, mock all you want. I have two houses, five kids, one granddaughter and while the economy has slowed me down, it hasnt devastated me ( though my father in law went from millions in the bank to working nights at wal mart. I offered to stake him in a new business but he says hes done with it. He helped me greatly over the years so I wish hed take it but thats a whole other story. ) Your mockery doesnt change the fact that I am correct in my assertion that success is not predicated solely on the acts of the individual but also of the group within the business itself.

What about the gov't? Do you think you owe more in taxes cuz the gov't built roads and bridges and stuff with our tax dollars? How much credit do you think they deserve for your success?

I owe what the government asks of me. If Reagan say 28% I owe 28%. If Clinton say 39%, I owe 39%. And if Obama wants to go back to 39%, and its passes, then THAT is what I owe.

If I dont like the tax rate, I am more than within my rights to petition my senator and congressperson and ask them to propose changes.

What I do not do is whine about how I "earned" my money and how dare these "parasites" try to sponge the sweat of my brow, the fruit of my labor. I dont whine that my success puts me in a higher tax bracket. Its like movie stars who whine that they lost their privacy. Everytime I see one on TV complain about it I yell at the TV," Thats what 12 million dollars for 6 weeks of work gets you asshole! Good trade! "

Same thing. Im in a higher tax bracket. I pay more in taxes. But I bring home more than most people as well.

Good trade.

Clearly, you were better off under Reagan and I say that as someone who doesn't like Reagan.

 

[bripat9643]

And if you don't believe in God?

BTW, there's this pesky little thing in your constitution called an amendment process that can remove amendments. So they are not set in stone....

Hey, move to an island and live by yourself if you think you can go it alone...

Move to North Korea since that is your ideal form of government.

 

[edthecynic]

And by the same token Businesses that don't pay taxes didn't contribute squat either.

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005.

More than half of foreign companies and about 42 percent of U.S. companies paid no U.S. income taxes for two or more years in that period, the report said.

I'm sure, since you printed some excerpts from the article yourself, that you must realize that the headline and text don't match, right? The fact is, that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. It's also not surprising, given the overly complex nature of our tax law that some corporations don't pay on years when they can find a legal excuse not to. Wasn't it GE under Jeffrey Immelt who, after every sort of sweet government deal one could imagine, not to mention having a warm, fuzzy relationship with Barack Obama, who didn't pay anything recently?

100% of those companies paid employees' Medicare/social security/FUTA taxes!
NO companies could be in USA with out paying those taxes !
That was my point! You never addressed that.

Actually I did!
I pointed out that none of those taxes builds roads or bridges.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama is not just unAmerican, he's anti-American.

 

[Vidi]

What about the gov't? Do you think you owe more in taxes cuz the gov't built roads and bridges and stuff with our tax dollars? How much credit do you think they deserve for your success?

I owe what the government asks of me. If Reagan say 28% I owe 28%. If Clinton say 39%, I owe 39%. And if Obama wants to go back to 39%, and its passes, then THAT is what I owe.

If I dont like the tax rate, I am more than within my rights to petition my senator and congressperson and ask them to propose changes.

What I do not do is whine about how I "earned" my money and how dare these "parasites" try to sponge the sweat of my brow, the fruit of my labor. I dont whine that my success puts me in a higher tax bracket. Its like movie stars who whine that they lost their privacy. Everytime I see one on TV complain about it I yell at the TV," Thats what 12 million dollars for 6 weeks of work gets you asshole! Good trade! "

Same thing. Im in a higher tax bracket. I pay more in taxes. But I bring home more than most people as well.

Good trade.

Clearly, you were better off under Reagan and I say that as someone who doesn't like Reagan.

Depends on how you look at it. As the owner of a bakery, I've often been approached by vendors selling their new ingredients, telling me how it's cheaper than the other guys. I'll try their ingredients and find the quality is lacking, so I pay more for the better ingredient. So I believe in the old saying," You get what you pay for."

That being said, I don't believe that the size of government is the issue. I want effective government. I want non wasteful government. And personally, I don't think either political party is capable of providing either as long as they hold true to a party line instead of dealing with each issue on an individual basis.

 

[Vidi]

Obama is not just unAmerican, he's anti-American.

Do you ever have anything to say that isn't total bullshit?

 

[BDBoop]

Obama is not just unAmerican, he's anti-American.

Do you ever have anything to say that isn't total bullshit?

Not so much, tho he has cracked me up a time or two.

 

[Vidi]

And if you don't believe in God?

BTW, there's this pesky little thing in your constitution called an amendment process that can remove amendments. So they are not set in stone....

Hey, move to an island and live by yourself if you think you can go it alone...

Move to North Korea since that is your ideal form of government.

With statements like that, I don't think you understand how different government types work.

 

[Vidi]

Obama is not just unAmerican, he's anti-American.

Do you ever have anything to say that isn't total bullshit?

Not so much, tho he has cracked me up a time or two.

Fair enough. Just seems it would get tiring always finding the stupidest thing possible to post and then actually posting it.

 

[BDBoop]

Do you ever have anything to say that isn't total bullshit?

Not so much, tho he has cracked me up a time or two.

Fair enough. Just seems it would get tiring always finding the stupidest thing possible to post and then actually posting it.

True. But it's election season, so of course I have half the board on ignore (since they've all gone full wingnut.)

 

[edthecynic]

In other words, "my mom bakes out of her house, my grandmother bakes out of her house, my sister bakes out of her house, and me and a buddy take turns working out of each others garage sifting through junk and selling it on eBay"...

I own three fully functional small town bakeries. In each I spent several years being the main baker first learning the business then teaching it to others so they could run it for me. Eventually though, I needed parts for my ovens which were no longer being manufactured so I went to a local machine shop. The owner and I got along well ( especially because I was a CNC machinist for seven years before I started my first bakery ) and eventually I invested in his business. Eventually he wanted to retire so I bought him out. I found a few more cleints and saw an opportunity to gain an account that required a major expansion. I split off a several of my employees into a new busiess to serve that signle account, but eventually expanded to include sevral other accounts. The first machine shop is pretty much a job shop. Small runs of parts from 10 to 1000 parts. The second is in constant production where we run about 30 different parts at least 20,000 parts each year.

The chemical business is something Im trying from scratch. Its a new industry that I think has a lot of potential for accumulating some serious wealth. Better than 1% type wealth. It could pan out...but it could not. So its not something Im putting a lot of eggs from my basket into.

Im a member of the local chamber of commerce and even ran for county commissioner several years back ( I lost oh well ).

I also took over my fathers rental properties for him after he needed triple bypass surgery and couldnt run them himself. He had it soooo screwed up. The last time he rented from anyone all that was reuired was a handshake and he just didnt get that times had changed. I set up his company with background check providers and got the delinquent renters out of his properties and got new paying customers in. When I stepped into his business, it was hemerraging money, when I stepped out, it was in the black. My friends at the time used to joke that I was a part time slum lord.

I did have one major failure. The local dry cleaner was going out of business and I thought I could turn that business around and turn a profit doing it. But I couldnt. It took far too much of my time and I found I couldnt really trust others to do the work well. Half assed work drives away customers. I lost a lot of money on that one. Ah well. Such is life.

So hey, mock all you want. I have two houses, five kids, one granddaughter and while the economy has slowed me down, it hasnt devastated me ( though my father in law went from millions in the bank to working nights at wal mart. I offered to stake him in a new business but he says hes done with it. He helped me greatly over the years so I wish hed take it but thats a whole other story. ) Your mockery doesnt change the fact that I am correct in my assertion that success is not predicated solely on the acts of the individual but also of the group within the business itself.

So you wouldn't have been a business success if somebody hadn't shown you a business to be in, bult it for you, funded it, and showed you precisely what to do to succeed? None of that was your idea? Your initiative? Your willingness to risk part of your hard earned savings that you worked for? You didn't build your businesses or build them up?

Your physical structure, equipment, supplies, tools, raw equipment of course was delivered by the tooth fairy and you didn't have to figure out any of that either.

Those employees who helped you did it out of the goodness of their hearts because you're such a swell guy? They didn't expect to be compensated as agreed for the work they performed? And of course they all just showed up one day when you needed them and that wasn't any of your doing either. And they just magically made you a profit. You didn't have to figure out how many to hire, who to place dong what, or what the wages would be for anybody.

All this is what your President would have us believe. If you in fact have been or are in business for yourself, you should understand that. If you don't, well that's the way the cupcake crumbles. You will be one of the easy ones taken over if we give away enough of our freedoms and resources to that way of thinking.

No, that is a lie your MessiahRushie filled your "skull of mush" with. Here is what Obama actually said and all the America-hating scum on the right edited out:

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I own three fully functional small town bakeries. In each I spent several years being the main baker first learning the business then teaching it to others so they could run it for me. Eventually though, I needed parts for my ovens which were no longer being manufactured so I went to a local machine shop. The owner and I got along well ( especially because I was a CNC machinist for seven years before I started my first bakery ) and eventually I invested in his business. Eventually he wanted to retire so I bought him out. I found a few more cleints and saw an opportunity to gain an account that required a major expansion. I split off a several of my employees into a new busiess to serve that signle account, but eventually expanded to include sevral other accounts. The first machine shop is pretty much a job shop. Small runs of parts from 10 to 1000 parts. The second is in constant production where we run about 30 different parts at least 20,000 parts each year.

The chemical business is something Im trying from scratch. Its a new industry that I think has a lot of potential for accumulating some serious wealth. Better than 1% type wealth. It could pan out...but it could not. So its not something Im putting a lot of eggs from my basket into.

Im a member of the local chamber of commerce and even ran for county commissioner several years back ( I lost oh well ).

I also took over my fathers rental properties for him after he needed triple bypass surgery and couldnt run them himself. He had it soooo screwed up. The last time he rented from anyone all that was reuired was a handshake and he just didnt get that times had changed. I set up his company with background check providers and got the delinquent renters out of his properties and got new paying customers in. When I stepped into his business, it was hemerraging money, when I stepped out, it was in the black. My friends at the time used to joke that I was a part time slum lord.

I did have one major failure. The local dry cleaner was going out of business and I thought I could turn that business around and turn a profit doing it. But I couldnt. It took far too much of my time and I found I couldnt really trust others to do the work well. Half assed work drives away customers. I lost a lot of money on that one. Ah well. Such is life.

So hey, mock all you want. I have two houses, five kids, one granddaughter and while the economy has slowed me down, it hasnt devastated me ( though my father in law went from millions in the bank to working nights at wal mart. I offered to stake him in a new business but he says hes done with it. He helped me greatly over the years so I wish hed take it but thats a whole other story. ) Your mockery doesnt change the fact that I am correct in my assertion that success is not predicated solely on the acts of the individual but also of the group within the business itself.

So you wouldn't have been a business success if somebody hadn't shown you a business to be in, bult it for you, funded it, and showed you precisely what to do to succeed? None of that was your idea? Your initiative? Your willingness to risk part of your hard earned savings that you worked for? You didn't build your businesses or build them up?

Your physical structure, equipment, supplies, tools, raw equipment of course was delivered by the tooth fairy and you didn't have to figure out any of that either.

Those employees who helped you did it out of the goodness of their hearts because you're such a swell guy? They didn't expect to be compensated as agreed for the work they performed? And of course they all just showed up one day when you needed them and that wasn't any of your doing either. And they just magically made you a profit. You didn't have to figure out how many to hire, who to place dong what, or what the wages would be for anybody.

All this is what your President would have us believe. If you in fact have been or are in business for yourself, you should understand that. If you don't, well that's the way the cupcake crumbles. You will be one of the easy ones taken over if we give away enough of our freedoms and resources to that way of thinking.

No, that is a lie your MessiahRushie filled your "skull of mush" with. Here is what Obama actually said and all the America-hating scum on the right edited out:

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

Ok so if that statement is true, why bring up all the other crap, people know in their lives who has helped them. This isnt some new discovery, but most people dont succeed and that's why you get the credit for you own success. If you're in the NFL HAll of Fame, it's because you worked at it and had the talent to do it, we dont put all the people that helped you along the way in there, because they may have helped, it's still up to YOU to get the job done and most simply fail at that.

But again, what is the point of the statement? What isnt being done now that people should do?

 

[Dr Grump]

And if you don't believe in God?

BTW, there's this pesky little thing in your constitution called an amendment process that can remove amendments. So they are not set in stone....

Hey, move to an island and live by yourself if you think you can go it alone...

Move to North Korea since that is your ideal form of government.

Yeah, that's right, it is. Just like Nazism is your ideal form, right?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Communist bloc? LOL Cold War dinosaur brainwashed Pub dupes. Thanks for the greed and cronyism DEPRESSION fcs. How dumb can you get. Let's try intelligence and people who don't use gov't to rip off the citizens...

Well that sounds like a great reason to have a smaller and less powerful government.......Thanks for supporting our side Franco, I knew ya had it in ya.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

oh and by the way...heres the full text of what Obama said:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.


The Meaning of "That"

And I agree with it.

And its fairly obvious that when taken as a whole, his meaning is quite clear and its not whats being painted by the partisan hacks.

You agree with what Obama said? You agree that hard work and intelligence are not what make people successful? You agree that everyone who is intelligent and works hard only succeeds because somebody helped them? Tell me something, why didn't hose people help the intelligent hard working people who were not successful? What the frack gives them the right to choose who succeeds and who fails?

Putting the remarks into context, the way all the idiotic defenders of Obama insist, ends up with me seeing what he said as the most condescending piece of crap ever spoken by anyone. I obviously am not alone in that, which is why they started arguing he didn't say what he said.

 

[Papageorgio]

Since business didn't get there on their own, so we can blame the government for when they fail.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Really? God gave you your rights? The Constitution says so?

Please provide us with the exact quote in the Constitution that says God gave you your rights.

Please be sure its the CONSTITUTION youre thinking of...its late and you may have had a few drinks by now...so I wont be too hard on you for screwing this one up.

Actually it's in the Declaration of Independence...
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

These rights ARE indeed given to us by the Creator. Not by government.
The US Constitution takes this premise to the extent that the Framers wrote a LIMITING document. In other words WE hold the power to LIMIT government. Not the other way around.
This irritates leftists. Obama is especially disturbed by the limits placed upon him by the Constitution. Hence the reason he acts unilaterally with his arrogance and belligerence toward the Three Branch System with his executive orders.

I am aware that it was the Declaration that said those three rights ( and others not named ) were given by our God. But I was also giving T the benefit of it being late and possibly three beers into his evening

however, then you go off the deep end with the leftists hate the Constitution nonsense.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America.

hmmm...no where in there does it say we wrote this to limit the power of government. However, I will concede that the Bil of Rights does indeed have a limiting function in that it limits the ability of the government to infringe upon the rights of the people.

However, to make statements about Obamas feeling on the subject is just ridiculous. Has he told you personally that he doesnt like the limits placed upon him by the Constitution? or are you inferring this from what you personally percieve as Constitutional violations?

As far as I know, the ONLY President in recent history to comment on the limits was W. Bush when he joked that it would be easier if it were a dictatorship...and he wasnt wrong. And it was funny ( though many people with very large sticks lodged firmly up their butts did not see the humor in it. Fuck those people )

But you really need to look at it objectively...and its very hard to claim objectivity when you accuse Obama of beligerance and arrogance.

Has he told me personally?

No, but he did tell everyone that he it is more difficult to change things than he would like.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcSMjltZnoA]Barack Obama on the Founding Fathers of the USA - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Since business didn't get there on their own, so we can blame the government for when they fail.

That explains why he supports the bailouts of banks, but not people.

 

[barry1960]

Sorry Buckwheat, but O'Bummer said it, we ALL heard it and those of us with more than 2 operative brain cells clearly got the message. Of course, when you hear the cheers in the crowd he's addressing you realize that they got THEIR message, too.

MORE FREE SHIT!!!

Buckwheat????? Is this a Little Rascals episode? Perhaps conservatives have secret decoder rings that translate secret messages from Obama's otherwise plain language. Something like, "Hello fellow Americans" can be translated into "I want to turn America into a Communist State" with your secret conservative decoder rings which you receive by mailing in three Ann Coulter book covers and a Rush Limbaugh cereal box top.

What was it that we ALL so plainly heard.?Was it an actual quote from Obama four years ago, or the edited version for a Republican compaign add that you eagerly lapped up like some dog returning to its own vomit? Talk about a lack of brain cells. Here is an actual quote from Obama:

"If you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed "

Now I will attempt to teach you something:

Success = opportunity plus hard work.

A conservative will omit opportunity from the equation. This will allow them to justify the removal of opportunities for others and rationalize that others lack of success as a result of laziness. Therefore all who do not succeed in life are lazy and it is their own fault. Thus we are justified as a country to remove every social safety net.

A liberal will omit the hard work from the equation. This will allow them to sit on their butts and decry the lack of oppotunity and not take personal responsibility for their own lives.

 

[edthecynic]

So you wouldn't have been a business success if somebody hadn't shown you a business to be in, bult it for you, funded it, and showed you precisely what to do to succeed? None of that was your idea? Your initiative? Your willingness to risk part of your hard earned savings that you worked for? You didn't build your businesses or build them up?

Your physical structure, equipment, supplies, tools, raw equipment of course was delivered by the tooth fairy and you didn't have to figure out any of that either.

Those employees who helped you did it out of the goodness of their hearts because you're such a swell guy? They didn't expect to be compensated as agreed for the work they performed? And of course they all just showed up one day when you needed them and that wasn't any of your doing either. And they just magically made you a profit. You didn't have to figure out how many to hire, who to place dong what, or what the wages would be for anybody.

All this is what your President would have us believe. If you in fact have been or are in business for yourself, you should understand that. If you don't, well that's the way the cupcake crumbles. You will be one of the easy ones taken over if we give away enough of our freedoms and resources to that way of thinking.

No, that is a lie your MessiahRushie filled your "skull of mush" with. Here is what Obama actually said and all the America-hating scum on the right edited out:

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

Ok so if that statement is true, why bring up all the other crap, people know in their lives who has helped them. This isnt some new discovery, but most people dont succeed and that's why you get the credit for you own success. If you're in the NFL HAll of Fame, it's because you worked at it and had the talent to do it, we dont put all the people that helped you along the way in there, because they may have helped, it's still up to YOU to get the job done and most simply fail at that.

But again, what is the point of the statement? What isnt being done now that people should do?

There are many coaches in the Hall of Fame!