You Taught The GOP A Lesson: You Want Higher Taxes So They Will Grant Your Wish

[JoeB131]

Well, heck.....maybe I should give you my address so I can give you a proper greeting.

Dude, I doubt your rich, but I always find it amusing that you guys are willing to throw down for people who'd scew you in a heartbeat.

Most people that make over $200k don't consider themselves rich when you look at what we have to pay to stay that way every year.

If you are making 200K a year, you are doing fine and you can afford to pay more in taxes.

 

[mudwhistle]

Dude, I doubt your rich, but I always find it amusing that you guys are willing to throw down for people who'd scew you in a heartbeat.

Most people that make over $200k don't consider themselves rich when you look at what we have to pay to stay that way every year.

If you are making 200K a year, you are doing fine and you can afford to pay more in taxes.

If I didn't have any overhead you'd be right........but of course you're wrong.

The problem being I have to pay property taxes, cost of repairs, FICA, Medicare taxes, Capital Gains taxes, rising utility costs, rising insurance premiums, medical bills, vehicle expenses, legal fees, ever increasing grocery bills, internet and phone service fees, advertizing expenses, and then I have to pay a handful of mortgage payments to include taxes, insurance, and I have to deal with renters that don't like paying their rent but the bank wanting their money non-the-less.

The problem is you can't see what it's like to be rich because you never were rich or never want to be. It's easier just to sit on your ass and wait for someone else to give it to you and complain because somebody in Washington gave you an excuse to.

The people that get nailed the hardest are the folks like me. We're on the edge and the ultra-rich are the only one's that make out alright. So when you drop the income down to $200k or $100k which will eventually happen, Obama is screwing the average small businessman while the ultra-rich won't be bothered all that much because most of their money is in assets or tax shelters covered by loop-holes rather than income. Raising rates will hammer me.

 

[Bfgrn]

Actually, Reagan's proposed budgets were just as many dollars as the ones eventually passed.

It's just that they had more for feeding old people and less for $600.00 toilet seats.

Exactly!

"Also, the excuse cannot be used that Congress massively increased Reagan's budget proposals. On the contrary, there was never much difference between Reagan's and Congress's budgets, and despite propaganda to the contrary, Reagan never proposed a cut in the total budget." - Murray N. Rothbard - Ludwig von Mises Institute

Reagan:

• The first budget — passed by all Republicans and a few conservative Southern Democrats.

This increased the debt by $144 Billion.

• The next 5 budgets — passed by the Republican Senate and signed by Reagan.

• The last 2 budgets — passed by a Democratic Congress

Totaled slightly less than Reagan requested.

Well, the Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 4 years so we really don't know, do we?

Obama and the Democrats already put us on a sustainable course. If Congress does NOTHING, we are already on The Extended-Baseline Scenario. If the Bush tax cuts don't end, and the Affordable Health care Act is repealed or significantly altered, then we would be sent down the road of the The Alternative Fiscal Scenario.

We are on The Extended-Baseline Scenario trajectory Obama and the Democrats put us on. If Congress does nothing the Extended-Baseline Scenario is already in place.

IF the Bush tax cuts don't expire and the AHA is not fully implemented or repealed the The Alternative Fiscal Scenario is the trajectory Teapublicans will take us if they gain enough power.

the CBO lays it out perfectly clear...CRYSTAL.

Federal Debt Held by the Public Under CBO’s Long-Term Budget Scenarios
(Percentage of gross domestic product)

The chart shows 2 scenarios. For all practical purposes, you can call the Extended-Baseline Scenario the Democrat scenario and the Alternative Fiscal Scenario the Teapublican scenario.


The Extended-Baseline Scenario adheres closely to current law. Under this scenario, the expiration of the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and most recently extended in 2010, the growing reach of the alternative minimum tax, the tax provisions of the recent health care legislation, and the way in which the tax system interacts with economic growth would result in steadily higher revenues relative to GDP.

The Alternative Fiscal Scenario
The budget outlook is much bleaker under the alternative fiscal scenario, which incorporates several changes to current law that are widely expected to occur or that would modify some provisions of law that might be difficult to sustain for a long period. Most important are the assumptions about revenues: that the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and extended most recently in 2010 will be extended; that the reach of the alternative minimum tax will be restrained to stay close to its historical extent; and that over the longer run, tax law will evolve further so that revenues remain near their historical average of 18 percent of GDP. This scenario also incorporates assumptions that Medicare’s payment rates for physicians will remain at current levels (rather than declining by about a third, as under current law) and that some policies enacted in the March 2010 health care legislation to restrain growth in federal health care spending will not continue in effect after 2021.

 

[Chris]

The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics.

 

[Chris]

There was, in fact, only one time that capital gains were taxed at the same rates that were paid by people who earned their money by working. That was during the years 1988 to 1990, as a result of the Tax Reform Act of 1986 — a law championed by President Ronald Reagan.

" We're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory some of those loophole were understandable, but in practice, they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing." ~ Ronald Reagan.

 

[Chris]

The Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest five percent of Americans cost the U.S. Treasury $11.6 million every hour, according to the National Priorities Project. Between 2001 and the current projected end of the Bush tax cut extension, tax cuts for the wealthiest 5 percent will cost the U.S. Treasury $1.184 trillion. If extended through 2021 as gop lawmakers propose, the total cost will exceed $3.2 trillion.

 

[mudwhistle]

The Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest five percent of Americans cost the U.S. Treasury $11.6 million every hour, according to the National Priorities Project. Between 2001 and the current projected end of the Bush tax cut extension, tax cuts for the wealthiest 5 percent will cost the U.S. Treasury $1.184 trillion. If extended through 2021 as gop lawmakers propose, the total cost will exceed $3.2 trillion.

Well, what would happen if everyone just stopped working quit their jobs and applied for Social Security?

How much would that cost the U.S. Treasury?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, boy.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest five percent of Americans cost the U.S. Treasury $11.6 million every hour, according to the National Priorities Project. Between 2001 and the current projected end of the Bush tax cut extension, tax cuts for the wealthiest 5 percent will cost the U.S. Treasury $1.184 trillion. If extended through 2021 as gop lawmakers propose, the total cost will exceed $3.2 trillion.

So if this was true shouldn't the government stop spending money it doesn't have?

 

[bripat9643]

The top 10% control 90% of the wealth. There is PLENTY of money to keep the budget balanaced and frankly, that's exactly what we did until Reagan drank the Supply Side Koolaid.

Well why don't we just go to their homes, bust down the doors, and take everything they have while you have the political capital to make it look like it isn't outright theft.

don't tempt me...

Frankly, we're probably a lot closer to that kind of thing than you think, because the Wealthy have acted so badly in the last 30 years...

How have they "acted badly," by making money?

I'll be that really chaps your envious ass.

 

[bripat9643]

If you are making 200K a year, you are doing fine and you can afford to pay more in taxes.

I'm sure everyone making $200,000 thanks you for your opinion on the subject.

Now fuck off.

How much someone else is entitled to keep of their income is none of your fucking business.

 

[mudwhistle]

Well why don't we just go to their homes, bust down the doors, and take everything they have while you have the political capital to make it look like it isn't outright theft.

don't tempt me...

Frankly, we're probably a lot closer to that kind of thing than you think, because the Wealthy have acted so badly in the last 30 years...

How have they "acted badly," by making money?

I'll be that really chaps your envious ass.

Acting badly is living the American Dream redefined.

 

[bripat9643]

There was, in fact, only one time that capital gains were taxed at the same rates that were paid by people who earned their money by working. That was during the years 1988 to 1990, as a result of the Tax Reform Act of 1986 — a law championed by President Ronald Reagan.

" We're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory some of those loophole were understandable, but in practice, they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing." ~ Ronald Reagan.

The maximum rate then was 28%. Do you want to go back to that rate?

 

[JoeB131]

If I didn't have any overhead you'd be right........but of course you're wrong.

The problem being I have to pay property taxes, cost of repairs, FICA, Medicare taxes, Capital Gains taxes, rising utility costs, rising insurance premiums, medical bills, vehicle expenses, legal fees, ever increasing grocery bills, internet and phone service fees, advertizing expenses, and then I have to pay a handful of mortgage payments to include taxes, insurance, and I have to deal with renters that don't like paying their rent but the bank wanting their money non-the-less.

The problem is you can't see what it's like to be rich because you never were rich or never want to be. It's easier just to sit on your ass and wait for someone else to give it to you and complain because somebody in Washington gave you an excuse to.

The people that get nailed the hardest are the folks like me. We're on the edge and the ultra-rich are the only one's that make out alright. So when you drop the income down to $200k or $100k which will eventually happen, Obama is screwing the average small businessman while the ultra-rich won't be bothered all that much because most of their money is in assets or tax shelters covered by loop-holes rather than income. Raising rates will hammer me.

All that stuff you whine about is tax deductable on Schedule E. (Yes, I used to own rental property.)

There are people working a lot harder than you that make a lot less money. So honestly, I don't want to hear about how hard you work because you won life's lottery. Especially since a large part of your income, between your military pension and Section 8 renters, comes from that very same government you whine about. I personally am not takin a dime from the government.

And if the ultra-rich are abusing the law to avoid paying taxes, CHANGE THE FUCKING LAW!

Jesus, how complicated is that?

 

[JoeB131]

Well why don't we just go to their homes, bust down the doors, and take everything they have while you have the political capital to make it look like it isn't outright theft.

don't tempt me...

Frankly, we're probably a lot closer to that kind of thing than you think, because the Wealthy have acted so badly in the last 30 years...

How have they "acted badly," by making money?

I'll be that really chaps your envious ass.

Acting badly by cheating those doing the actual work.

Do you think someone like Obama could have gotten elected 20 years ago?

 

[mudwhistle]

If I didn't have any overhead you'd be right........but of course you're wrong.

The problem being I have to pay property taxes, cost of repairs, FICA, Medicare taxes, Capital Gains taxes, rising utility costs, rising insurance premiums, medical bills, vehicle expenses, legal fees, ever increasing grocery bills, internet and phone service fees, advertizing expenses, and then I have to pay a handful of mortgage payments to include taxes, insurance, and I have to deal with renters that don't like paying their rent but the bank wanting their money non-the-less.

The problem is you can't see what it's like to be rich because you never were rich or never want to be. It's easier just to sit on your ass and wait for someone else to give it to you and complain because somebody in Washington gave you an excuse to.

The people that get nailed the hardest are the folks like me. We're on the edge and the ultra-rich are the only one's that make out alright. So when you drop the income down to $200k or $100k which will eventually happen, Obama is screwing the average small businessman while the ultra-rich won't be bothered all that much because most of their money is in assets or tax shelters covered by loop-holes rather than income. Raising rates will hammer me.

All that stuff you whine about is tax deductable on Schedule E. (Yes, I used to own rental property.)

There are people working a lot harder than you that make a lot less money. So honestly, I don't want to hear about how hard you work because you won life's lottery. Especially since a large part of your income, between your military pension and Section 8 renters, comes from that very same government you whine about. I personally am not takin a dime from the government.

And if the ultra-rich are abusing the law to avoid paying taxes, CHANGE THE FUCKING LAW!

Jesus, how complicated is that?

I can tell you don't have a clue.

The only thing a schedule E does is keep the Federal government from hitting you with heavier income taxes. If I didn't have all of the deductions I have my taxes would be a minimum of 50% of my income under self-employment tax. I have to spend $100 - 150k on qualified expenses to get all of those deductions. The money is still gone. If I don't pinch dimes and nickles when tax time comes at the end of the year the city could take it all. I pay more in property taxes alone than most people earn the whole year.

And anyone who runs a business works harder than someone on an assembly-line in a factory. I've done both. You work 8 hrs on the line and you go home. But when you own a business you work sometimes 16 hr days.

Every single property that I own I had to work for. Nobody just gave it to me. The reason I have section 8 renters is because I didn't have enough qualified renters to fill my apartments while 80% of the post was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. I was planning on unloading some of my properties but when Obama got elected property values went down instead of up, so I'd be taking a loss if I sold them.

Now you say you want to take some of them from me. But if you tried I don't think you'd leave the situation completely whole, if you know what I mean. Go ahead and try. I'd relish the opportunity.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I can tell you don't have a clue.

The only thing a schedule E does is keep the Federal government from hitting you with heavier income taxes. If I didn't have all of the deductions I have my taxes would be a minimum of 50% of my income under self-employment tax. I have to spend $100 - 150k on qualified expenses to get all of those deductions. The money is still gone. If I don't pinch dimes and nickles when tax time comes at the end of the year the city could take it all. I pay more in property taxes alone than most people earn the whole year.

And anyone who runs a business works harder than someone on an assembly-line in a factory. I've done both. You work 8 hrs on the line and you go home. But when you own a business you work sometimes 16 hr days.

Every single property that I own I had to work for. Nobody just gave it to me. The reason I have section 8 renters is because I didn't have enough qualified renters to fill my apartments while 80% of the post was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. I was planning on unloading some of my properties but when Obama got elected property values went down instead of up, so I'd be taking a loss if I sold them.

Now you say you want to take some of them from me. But if you tried I don't think you'd leave the situation completely whole, if you know what I mean. Go ahead and try. I'd relish the opportunity.

How about this. We stop paying you Section 8 checks, and you can just rent to whoever... No BAQ or VHA payments, either. I mean, man, being the rugged individualist you are, you can certainly do without all those big fat government checks.

I find it amusing the people who whine the loudest take the most...

 

[mudwhistle]

[

I can tell you don't have a clue.

The only thing a schedule E does is keep the Federal government from hitting you with heavier income taxes. If I didn't have all of the deductions I have my taxes would be a minimum of 50% of my income under self-employment tax. I have to spend $100 - 150k on qualified expenses to get all of those deductions. The money is still gone. If I don't pinch dimes and nickles when tax time comes at the end of the year the city could take it all. I pay more in property taxes alone than most people earn the whole year.

And anyone who runs a business works harder than someone on an assembly-line in a factory. I've done both. You work 8 hrs on the line and you go home. But when you own a business you work sometimes 16 hr days.

Every single property that I own I had to work for. Nobody just gave it to me. The reason I have section 8 renters is because I didn't have enough qualified renters to fill my apartments while 80% of the post was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. I was planning on unloading some of my properties but when Obama got elected property values went down instead of up, so I'd be taking a loss if I sold them.

Now you say you want to take some of them from me. But if you tried I don't think you'd leave the situation completely whole, if you know what I mean. Go ahead and try. I'd relish the opportunity.

How about this. We stop paying you Section 8 checks, and you can just rent to whoever... No BAQ or VHA payments, either. I mean, man, being the rugged individualist you are, you can certainly do without all those big fat government checks.

I find it amusing the people who whine the loudest take the most...

Now that the soldiers are back I have more and I'm slowly weeding out the Section 8.

Usually somebody on Section 8 is there because they aren't reliable. They almost always leave the property looking like a shit-hole and I end up having to spend anywhere from $1000 to $5000 just to make the place habitable again. Then the state comes in and starts inspecting and tells me that I have to make even more repairs. Or the state just says that they're cutting back on benefits and the check isn't as big as it was before. So I'm slowly moving out the Section 8s.

However I've had soldiers that were just as bad. I can understand normal wear and tear but usually the property is trashed. So there goes my profits. Course I could become a slum-lord but then I'd never pass a state inspection and I couldn't rent to Section 8 applicants anymore.

And I don't get any BAQ or VHA checks.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I can tell you don't have a clue.

The only thing a schedule E does is keep the Federal government from hitting you with heavier income taxes. If I didn't have all of the deductions I have my taxes would be a minimum of 50% of my income under self-employment tax. I have to spend $100 - 150k on qualified expenses to get all of those deductions. The money is still gone. If I don't pinch dimes and nickles when tax time comes at the end of the year the city could take it all. I pay more in property taxes alone than most people earn the whole year.

And anyone who runs a business works harder than someone on an assembly-line in a factory. I've done both. You work 8 hrs on the line and you go home. But when you own a business you work sometimes 16 hr days.

Every single property that I own I had to work for. Nobody just gave it to me. The reason I have section 8 renters is because I didn't have enough qualified renters to fill my apartments while 80% of the post was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. I was planning on unloading some of my properties but when Obama got elected property values went down instead of up, so I'd be taking a loss if I sold them.

Now you say you want to take some of them from me. But if you tried I don't think you'd leave the situation completely whole, if you know what I mean. Go ahead and try. I'd relish the opportunity.

How about this. We stop paying you Section 8 checks, and you can just rent to whoever... No BAQ or VHA payments, either. I mean, man, being the rugged individualist you are, you can certainly do without all those big fat government checks.

I find it amusing the people who whine the loudest take the most...

Now that the soldiers are back I have more and I'm slowly weeding out the Section 8.

Usually somebody on Section 8 is there because they aren't reliable. They almost always leave the property looking like a shit-hole and I end up having to spend anywhere from $1000 to $5000 just to make the place habitable again. Then the state comes in and starts inspecting and tells me that I have to make even more repairs. Or the state just says that they're cutting back on benefits and the check isn't as big as it was before. So I'm slowly moving out the Section 8s.

However I've had soldiers that were just as bad. I can understand normal wear and tear but usually the property is trashed. So there goes my profits. Course I could become a slum-lord but then I'd never pass a state inspection and I couldn't rent to Section 8 applicants anymore.

And I don't get any BAQ or VHA checks.

No, you don't, but your renters do. That was kind of my point. (Yes, I've played the whole Off-base housing game, too.) You wouldn't have any business at all if they just put everyone in barracks or on-post housing. In fact, I suspect if they closed down the base your next to, you'd be completely screwed.

But you'll still whine about the government taxing too much.

 

[mudwhistle]

How about this. We stop paying you Section 8 checks, and you can just rent to whoever... No BAQ or VHA payments, either. I mean, man, being the rugged individualist you are, you can certainly do without all those big fat government checks.

I find it amusing the people who whine the loudest take the most...

Now that the soldiers are back I have more and I'm slowly weeding out the Section 8.

Usually somebody on Section 8 is there because they aren't reliable. They almost always leave the property looking like a shit-hole and I end up having to spend anywhere from $1000 to $5000 just to make the place habitable again. Then the state comes in and starts inspecting and tells me that I have to make even more repairs. Or the state just says that they're cutting back on benefits and the check isn't as big as it was before. So I'm slowly moving out the Section 8s.

However I've had soldiers that were just as bad. I can understand normal wear and tear but usually the property is trashed. So there goes my profits. Course I could become a slum-lord but then I'd never pass a state inspection and I couldn't rent to Section 8 applicants anymore.

And I don't get any BAQ or VHA checks.

No, you don't, but your renters do. That was kind of my point. (Yes, I've played the whole Off-base housing game, too.) You wouldn't have any business at all if they just put everyone in barracks or on-post housing. In fact, I suspect if they closed down the base your next to, you'd be completely screwed.

But you'll still whine about the government taxing too much.

What makes you think Obama won't do it anyway? Sequestration will cost a lot of jobs.

Obama doesn't think we need a large standing Army. I figure come the first of the year he'll start base-closings.

It's just one of those things. We have to adapt to the way the economy moves.

I don't have a lot of time to think about somebody else having more than me. When I see somebody driving a nice car I'm not envious of them. If you live in a city that has extremely wealthy folks and poor folks living within a stone's throw from each other I guess there is a lot of that.

Democrats want to make you poor.

Give me one reason why they would want you to be independently wealthy. What incentive does a Democrat have to help you keep your own money? They want you to be poor.

Once you don't need the handouts they lose their power. Believe me, they've figured this out. If they keep us poor they keep their power.