You Were Warned...Pat. Act

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Civil libertarians and liberals have been railing against the Patriot Act since its inception. You were told that you like it under a Republican but would hate it under a Democrat, but you didn't listen.

One Senator told you back then EXACTLY what would happen under these new laws...

Watch The One Senator Who Voted Against The Patriot Act Warn What Would Happen

One provision that troubles me a great deal is a provision that permits the government under FISA to compel the production of records from any business regarding any person, if that information is sought in connection with an investigation of terrorism or espionage.

Now we're not talking here about travel records pertaining to a terrorist suspect, which we all can see can be highly relevant to an investigation of a terrorist plot. FISA already gives the FBI the power to get airline, train, hotel, car rental and other records of a suspect.

But under this bill, the government can compel the disclosure of the personal records of anyone -- perhaps someone who worked with, or lived next door to, or went to school with, or sat on an airplane with, or has been seen in the company of, or whose phone number was called by -- the target of the investigation.

And under this new provisions all business records can be compelled, including those containing sensitive personal information like medical records from hospitals or doctors, or educational records, or records of what books someone has taken out of the library. This is an enormous expansion of authority, under a law that provides only minimal judicial supervision.​

You were warned...

When the patriot act was passed I was just a part time observer of politics. I even defended it up till late last year. Once I started seeing the potential for abuse I changed my opinion. Really had nothing to do with Obama because I still supported it during his first term.

No more

 

[koshergrl]

Here's the thing...the loons want to blame the law, because it can be abused. Any law can be abused and misapplied...and they completely absolve Obama of any culpability for being the tyrant that is abusing it.

 

[dblack]

Here's the thing...the loons want to blame the law, because it can be abused. Any law can be abused and misapplied...and they completely absolve Obama of any culpability for being the tyrant that is abusing it.

Speaking for myself, I'm not absolving Obama of anything. In particular, I'm not absolving those who voted for him. Especially not those who voted for him the second time around - after he had an entire term to reverse the policies of the Bush administration and refused. By that time he'd proven to be every bit the neo-con Bush was.

But the Republicans that supported the Patriot Act when their guy was in there, and oppose it when the other side has control are cowardly hypocrites.

 

[koshergrl]

We don't oppose the patriot act. We oppose the illegal application of it.

There's a difference.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

We don't oppose the patriot act. We oppose the illegal application of it.

There's a difference.

And we oppose the lack of oversight which is supposed to be a component PART of the law.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Evidently, then Spazballless must be referring, instead, to the August 2006 decision where a Federal district court judge did rule that the Bush Administration eavesdropping was illegal. A.C.L.U. v. N.S.A. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/washington/18nsa.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

A copy of the actual decision in pdf format is linked at this cite (from The New York Times article, above): http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/nsa/aclunsa81706opn.pdf

Naturally, Spazballless forgets to mention that the decision was overturned on appeal.

Hey, Spaz, you ball-less twit, got anything real, you asshole?

i didnt mention it because i didnt know. Its as simple as that. Had i known it was appealed and overturned i would not have said it.

So retract my statement.

Uhm.

Ok.

I guess I gotta admit that's fair enough.

Consider it retracted.

 

[dblack]

Right. Next you'll try to tell us this same exact shit wasn't going on under Bush???

Are you trying too look like naive fools, or does it just come out that way in the midst of your partisan bedwetting?

 

[koshergrl]

So what's your point? It's okay to be a criminal because (you allege) everybody else is a criminal too, they just don't get caught?

You do know that's an idiotic argument, right? I mean..you have to know that much.

Using that logic, we should release all murderers, based on the fact that sometimes, people get away with murder.

 

[dblack]

So what's your point? It's okay to be a criminal because (you allege) everybody else is a criminal too, they just don't get caught?

You do know that's an idiotic argument, right? I mean..you have to know that much.

Using that logic, we should release all murderers, based on the fact that sometimes, people get away with murder.

Of course that's an idiotic argument. And of course, I didn't make it. I want to see the entire administration taken down over this. Just as I wanted to see Bush taken down. I'm just sick to death of all the idiot sheep who can't see past their partisan noses. You sold us out when you supported Bush in creating the infrastructure for this*. You should be ashamed. The pretense of righteous indignation is just pathetic.

*assuming you did. My apologies if you didn't. I know many who are now up in arms did, however.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Right. Next you'll try to tell us this same exact shit wasn't going on under Bush???

Are you trying too look like naive fools, or does it just come out that way in the midst of your partisan bedwetting?

A lot of that depends on WHO you imagine you are talking to and what post you think you are responding to.

Since you offer no clue, I'm afraid the result is that your post is just kind of -- gibberish.

 

[koshergrl]

Wow. I have always dismissed the Bush fixation as an exaggeration..

but obviously it holds db fast in it's grip. Bush obsession is a real, and very odd, thing.

 

[dblack]

Wow. I have always dismissed the Bush fixation as an exaggeration..

but obviously it holds db fast in it's grip. Bush obsession is a real, and very odd, thing.

It's not Bush fixation. He's gone. It's all the idiots who supported him. They're still around. Unless, and until, they're ready to admit their mistake, I have no use for them.

 

[P@triot]

All Americans have always had access to quality healthcare. Perhaps you should stop lying now.

 

[P@triot]

sallow is doing his jack lew dance...nothing to see here folks....

They're all doing it. "This is nothing! There is no controversy, there are no scandals, it's just a few extremists who are alarmed at nothing!"

Creepy. I can't believe it's happening. I just keep my head down, do my thing, and hope they don't start rounding us up at church. Because I think that's eventually what's going to happen. I'm already hearing it from the leftists.

Jesus KG - don't "keep your head down" and "hope they don't start rounding us up". Lock & Load! If Obama and his Saddam Hussein-like regime of terror wants to come get us - I say COME GET SOME, cupcakes. Hell, the entire Seal community hates Obama and the libtards already. Who the fuck is he going to send for us, that fat passivist David Axelrod?

The best thing that could happen to this country would be a civil war. Libtards are a cancer who have shown nothing but contempt for the U.S. Constitution and our laws for over 100 years now. The only way to stop cancer is to cut it out of the host.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Bullshit. This is what the left was up in arms about the day the Patriot Act was enacted. We were told to sit down, shut up and to stop behaving in such an UnAmerican way. This is the chickens coming home to roost that you were warned about.

awww, so you just sat down and shut up? sorta of like you all doing now and still blaming OTHERS for what your Dear leader is doing..

Boy, times do change don't they?

Times Change(about NSA)

Can you friggen belive this!!! (aclu)

US Judge Halts Bush's Spying Program

Patriotism and the Press

not really, commies attacking citizens in a variety of ways....what's new about that?

Oh I know liberals using laws and rules like THEY see fit rather than by the original intent?

oh wait, that's not news either, I guess they see the Patriot Act as a "living, breathing" law, and dont care about what it was really intended for.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Wow. I have always dismissed the Bush fixation as an exaggeration..

but obviously it holds db fast in it's grip. Bush obsession is a real, and very odd, thing.

It's not Bush fixation. He's gone. It's all the idiots who supported him. They're still around. Unless, and until, they're ready to admit their mistake, I have no use for them.

what voting for Bush instead of Gore or Kerry? I dont think so man, liberals as you see by this current administration are far, far worse.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Here's the thing...the loons want to blame the law, because it can be abused. Any law can be abused and misapplied...and they completely absolve Obama of any culpability for being the tyrant that is abusing it.

Speaking for myself, I'm not absolving Obama of anything. In particular, I'm not absolving those who voted for him. Especially not those who voted for him the second time around - after he had an entire term to reverse the policies of the Bush administration and refused. By that time he'd proven to be every bit the neo-con Bush was.

But the Republicans that supported the Patriot Act when their guy was in there, and oppose it when the other side has control are cowardly hypocrites.

And what exactly was Obama supposed to do? Presidents lack the authority to repeal acts of Congress. Or Bush, for that matter, who is something of a victim of the monster he created, or allowed to be created.

Moreover, do you honestly believe any post-9/11 president – democratic or republican – would seek to dismantle the anti-terrorist intelligence gathering apparatus?

Of course not.

There’s no way any president is going to leave himself open to being accused of being responsible for another 9/11 attack.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Here's the thing...the loons want to blame the law, because it can be abused. Any law can be abused and misapplied...and they completely absolve Obama of any culpability for being the tyrant that is abusing it.

Speaking for myself, I'm not absolving Obama of anything. In particular, I'm not absolving those who voted for him. Especially not those who voted for him the second time around - after he had an entire term to reverse the policies of the Bush administration and refused. By that time he'd proven to be every bit the neo-con Bush was.

But the Republicans that supported the Patriot Act when their guy was in there, and oppose it when the other side has control are cowardly hypocrites.

And what exactly was Obama supposed to do? Presidents lack the authority to repeal acts of Congress. Or Bush, for that matter, who is something of a victim of the monster he created, or allowed to be created.

Moreover, do you honestly believe any post-9/11 president – democratic or republican – would seek to dismantle the anti-terrorist intelligence gathering apparatus?

Of course not.

There’s no way any president is going to leave himself open to being accused of being responsible for another 9/11 attack.

oh please when has that stopped a liberal before, constitutional process has never been an issue with them.

Issue an executive order, Obama loves those or hey make up some bs and challenge it in court, another favorite liberal tactic?

or how about when the dems controlled all three branches?

 

[Seawytch]

Speaking for myself, I'm not absolving Obama of anything. In particular, I'm not absolving those who voted for him. Especially not those who voted for him the second time around - after he had an entire term to reverse the policies of the Bush administration and refused. By that time he'd proven to be every bit the neo-con Bush was.

But the Republicans that supported the Patriot Act when their guy was in there, and oppose it when the other side has control are cowardly hypocrites.

And what exactly was Obama supposed to do? Presidents lack the authority to repeal acts of Congress. Or Bush, for that matter, who is something of a victim of the monster he created, or allowed to be created.

Moreover, do you honestly believe any post-9/11 president – democratic or republican – would seek to dismantle the anti-terrorist intelligence gathering apparatus?

Of course not.

There’s no way any president is going to leave himself open to being accused of being responsible for another 9/11 attack.

oh please when has that stopped a liberal before, constitutional process has never been an issue with them.

Issue an executive order, Obama loves those or hey make up some bs and challenge it in court, another favorite liberal tactic?

or how about when the dems controlled all three branches?

If the President had issued an EO to end the PA, the RW would do what they do...freak out.

"Soft on terror" "Muslim sympathizer" "Dictator" the frothing Hawks would foment and then they would ignore his EO like they did with GITMO.

The Democrats never "controlled" the three branches of government. They had a weak 60 vote majority, that included Lieberman, for something like two months. You think that guy would have voted to end the Patriot Act? McCain's other "little buddy"?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

It should NOT have been dismantled by Obama.

One of the very few areas in which he has been right is the whole war against terrorists thing. Obama was right to reneg on his "offer" to shut down Gitmo. And he was right to say "fuck your sovereignty" to Pakistan in order to finally enable the SEAL Team to GET Osama bin Laden. He is right, at least in general terms, in trying to continue the ability of the government to intercept the plots and plans of the terrorists BEFORE they get to make their moves.

Does this mean that there is no problem with The USA PATRIOT Act or with FISA or with the NSA intelligence gathering programs, etc? Fuck no. There ARE problems. But to give more weight to the defects in the programs than the power and the history of success it has brought is akin to tossing out the baby with the bath water. To do that would be pretty damn stupid.

PARTS of it DO need fine tuning and heightened attention, scrutiny and oversight. So? Let's do THAT.