12/19/2022: Trump Criminal Referral Day

[Faun]

How? There was no way 2k people were going to die, no buildings were going to be blown up and there was no path to actually overthrow the government.

And had Pence go e along with Trump's sinister plan to make them the winner of the election they lost?

 

[Faun]

Challenging an election is not overthrowing the government. The protest was to get the election investigated. Congress stole the election by refusing to investigate it. That is the truth in the matter.

Republicans controlled the Senate. Why's they refuse to investigate it?

 

[Faun]

Let us know when the DOJ charges Trump with something. He hasn't broken any laws. You can't charge someone for being mouthy. Fucking moron.

We'll see what the DoJ investigation finds.

 

[JoeB131]

There's no right of cross-examination in Congressional hearings ... DoJ ain't so lucky ... it takes balls to lie to Congress, but you go to prison for lying in court ...

Um, yeah, so Trump would be in a lot of trouble if he lies in court, you are right. So probably he should just do what he did in NY, and plead the fifth a bunch of times.

Sound and fury signifying nothing.

Oh, but don't worry - you got him THIS time!

I mean, would they ever lie to you?

Oh, the walls are pretty much closing in on Trump, and he knows it.
He's under investigation in GA, FL, NY and DC.
His own party is abandoning him.
He becomes more of a joke every day.

 

[ReinyDays]

Let us know when the DOJ charges Trump with something. He hasn't broken any laws. You can't charge someone for being mouthy. Fucking moron.

You said DoJ couldn't touch Trump because he's a private citizen ... that's wrong, of course the DoJ can, and regularly do with their FBI division ...

That's different from saying Trump didn't commit any crimes ... in this case, DoJ will be investigating, and have started that investigation long before Congress took up the matter ... I think you're right, there's a timing problem with the Democrats version of events ... when Trump said what he said at The Oval, the folks listening wouldn't have had time to get to the Capitol to start the riot ... the riot was already going on ... so the riot itself had different origins than Trump's speech ...

I'm a liberal, not a Democrat ... I'm judging Trump the way I wish to be judged ... and I wish he'd fucking SHUT UP and let his actions speak for him ... just look at all the programs he started that Biden dares not end ...

 

[Devils_Advocate]

From the OP:

As the committee convenes one final time, a major legislative response to the insurrection could be on the fast-track to passage.

Lawmakers are expected to overhaul the arcane election law that Trump tried to subvert after his 2020 election defeat by including legislative changes in a year-end spending bill.

The proposed overhaul of the Electoral Count Act is one of the many byproducts of the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol. A group of bipartisan lawmakers has been working on the legislation since the insurrection. Trump and his allies tried to find loopholes in that law before the congressional certification of the 2020 vote as the former president worked to overturn his defeat to Biden and unsuccessfully pressured Pence to go along.

The bill, if passed, would amend the 19th century law that, along with the Constitution, governs how states and Congress certify electors and declare presidential election winners, ensuring the popular vote from each state is protected from manipulation and that Congress does not arbitrarily decide presidential elections.

The committee is also expected to release its own legislative proposals in its final report, with ideas for how to strengthen and expand the guardrails that protected the Electoral College certification in 2021.

Ain’t happening.

 

[Chillicothe]

No, he has not been charged.

You are right, poster Faun.
Trump was 'criminally referred' by the Congressional Committee.
Time will tell if the Department of Justice will criminally charge him.
I think this special prosecutor has to dot his i's, and cross his t's....and put it before a grand jury before an indictment comes down.

I was too hasty in my comment. Thanx for catching that.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm a liberal, not a Democrat ... I'm judging Trump the way I wish to be judged ... and I wish he'd fucking SHUT UP and let his actions speak for him ... just look at all the programs he started that Biden dares not end ...

Which programs are those?

the problem was, take away all his outrageous behavior, you really don't have a lot to talk about with Trump. He got very little legislation passed. Very little of his wall got built.

Trump would have actually had to accomplish something for Biden to undo it. Biden has been too busy fixing Trump's fuckups.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Orange Jesus is going to prison.

LOL

I vert much doubt that, not that it might not be deserved but the politically and financially elite do not have the same laws we have to follow.

 

[jknowgood]

That's not what I said. A pity you don't understand English.

You obviously don't because no where he told people to be violent.

 

[Aldo Raine]

The DOJ can't do anything to Trump. He's a private citizen.

Do you mean like with the J6 rioters already prosecuted and serving their jail sentences? Do you mean like that?

 

[Chillicothe]

'.....here's a timing problem with the Democrats version of events ... when Trump said what he said at The Oval, the folks listening wouldn't have had time to get to the Capitol to start the riot ... the riot was already going on ... so the riot itself had different origins than Trump's speech ...

---------------------------------------------
"Timing" should not be a hindrance to the pursuit of justice and the accountability requirement.

True, the bulk of folks at the Oval were about 1-3/4 from the Capitol when the 'organized' insurrectionists (Oathkeepers, Proud Boys, et al) began the initial contact with Capitol Police. But people had been peeling away from the Oval for some time. People known to be armed. Testimony at the J6 Hearing made note of that.

It is my belief based on what I heard in the testimony and based on the credible accounts I have read in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and Washington Post ......that there was considerable 'structure' to this attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Planning had been going on for some weeks, e.g., Trump's invitation to be wild, the confidence of the tip-of-the-spear Oathkeepers that someone in power had their backs, the reported secrecy about the intention to order the Oval crowd to "march" to the Capitol and make it look 'spur-of-the-moment', the fake electors lined up on the sideline bench waiting for Pence to halt the EC counting. In short, there was planning for an attack. It wasn't an organic spontaneous outpouring of anger.

To be sure the anger was there, and some dunderheads lost their senses and committed crimes that they will pay for for a long time. But that anger was initiated and instigated by Don Trump, it was stoked and provoked by him and his enablers. Without Don Trump' actions there would have been no attack on our democracy on January 6th. Those 'anger-fueled' mob members were being used as cover, as useful-idiots, cannon-fodder.....so that when Pence refused to certify the EC count, Trump could then declare an emergency and initiate martial law. And throw America into a Constitutional crisis which he likely believed he could emerge as the winner of.

IMHO

 

[Chillicothe]

He got very little legislation passed

The much touted tax-break that many MAGA-Q's say Trump created......ain't so.
Sure it was a tax-break. But it was Speaker Ryan's and Senate President McConnell's tax-break. It had long been their idea. It was Ryan's Holy Grail for years., and he retired shortly after accomplishing it.
And with those two guys controlling the Chairmanships and thus Congress it was gonna happen regardless of who the Republican in the Oval Office.

We would have seen a Republican engineered tax-break under Carlie Fiorina, John Kasich, or any of the crowd of Republican candidates for 2016......if they had been elected.

It was gonna happen under Republican control. Don Trump was like the skier behind the Ryan/McConnell speedboat. He merely road the wave.

IMHO

 

[Chillicothe]

"You obviously don't because no where he told people to be violent."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Michael Corleone was talking about cannoli when he said...'Make 'em and offer they can't refuse'.

Point being, human communication is a layered nuanced endeavor. It need not be direct, overt, and unambigous...to still convey the intent of the communicator to the communicated-to.

When bosses say....'I'd like to see that goal met'.....doesn't mean he is merely speculating without intent.
He is 'messaging'. He is signaling.
And if the 'messaged-to' don't understand that language.....they increase risk. To their prospects and maybe careers. Duh!

 

[jknowgood]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Michael Corleone was talking about cannoli when he said...'Make 'em and offer they can't refuse'.

Point being, human communication is a layered nuanced endeavor. It need not be direct, overt, and unambigous...to still convey the intent of the communicator to the communicated-to.

When bosses say....'I'd like to see that goal met'.....doesn't mean he is merely speculating without intent.
He is 'messaging'. He is signaling.
And if the 'messaged-to' don't understand that language.....they increase risk. To their prospects and maybe careers. Duh!

Lol, you want to compare to what your looney leaders said?

 

[Couchpotato]

And had Pence go e along with Trump's sinister plan to make them the winner of the election they lost?

Im not sure on the actual legality of that, but I know the vast majority of Americans would not have accepted that as legal even if they got a judge to say it was. That might have started an actual insurrection, one that I would have joined frankly. But even if he had done that how is that connected to the idiots in the Capital Building? Crazy thing in this country those in charge are only in charge at the consent of the governed.

 

[Couchpotato]

Have you ever taken a history class in your life? Take a look at the coups over the last century and what happened. A group of insurrectionist takes over the key government buildings.

So if someone occupies the Capital building in your head they are just in charge. That's it, All it takes for you is their physical presence in that building and poof, it's magic they run the country. Do you think there's some sort of special ring the SotH wears, or a sword stuck in a stone you have pull out? No one's been able to articulate an actual path to for these people to have actually overthrown the Government. And I'll point out neither have you. Even if they had killed everyone inside the Capital building and taken up residence there it still wouldnt have put them in charge of the country.

 

[Faun]

You obviously don't because no where he told people to be violent.

Moron, again, what I actually said was...

He also told them Pence could have saved the election for him but wouldn't. Then, as that violent mob stormed the Capitol, Trump egged them on, throwing Pence under the proverbial bus. I hope he gets charged for that. And for trying to send fake electors to Congress.

 

[Faun]

Im not sure on the actual legality of that, but I know the vast majority of Americans would not have accepted that as legal even if they got a judge to say it was. That might have started an actual insurrection, one that I would have joined frankly. But even if he had done that how is that connected to the idiots in the Capital Building? Crazy thing in this country those in charge are only in charge at the consent of the governed.

The vast majority of Republicans and conservatives would have thoroughly embraced that. And it would not have led to insurrection, it would have led to civil war between those who opposed such a maneuver and those who love it and welcome it. And I didn't say the morons who stormed the Capitol were willing participants of that plan. I believe Trump called them to the Capitol to help support it had Pence gone along with it. I don't agree with Pence's politics at any level but that man is a hero who deserves the Presidential Medal of Freedom for saving this nation.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So there isn’t one. And you know it. Thanks.

This whiny troll tactic won't help you. Your aggressive ignorance embarrasses you.