2020s The Decade of the Electric Cars

[Old Rocks]

Researchers have struggled for decades to safely use powerful—but flammable—lithium metal in a battery. Now John Goodenough, the 94-year-old father of the lithium-ion battery, is claiming a novel solution as a blockbuster advance.

If it proves out, the invention could allow electric cars to compete with conventional vehicles on sticker price. The improbable solution, described in a new paper from Goodenough and three co-authors, has drawn intense interest from leading science and technology publications. He estimates that the solution could store five to ten times as much energy as current standard lithium-ion batteries. That’s enough to have Google’s Eric Schmidt tweeting about it.
The 94-year-old father of the lithium-ion battery says he's made another big breakthrough

If Goodenough has done it again, then that semi will out pull most semi's on the road today. Just as the P100D destroys most ICE's on the quarter mile, the Tesla Semi will instantly make the present diesels into antiques. And they will come with the self driving technology already on board.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It makes no sense to have electric cars.

There is not enough electricity to run them.

And converting gasoline and other petroleum products into electricity is not efficient.

Your kidding right? Stationary power plants are far more efficient than mobile systems.

What is more efficient a power plant providing electricity for electric cars or gasoline powered cars? - Quora

Would we need additional power plants to meet the demand? Absolutely, but they wouldn't be a problem.


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Would't be a problem? In some places it's a problem now without the electric cars. Where I live, they warn people to take it easy on their AC in the summer when it gets hot and humid so we don't have rolling blackouts. And what do you think will happen to our electric bills when companies invest hundreds of millions of dollars for those new plants?

Don't care. At that point, the smart people will have installed their own solar systems. In fact, if that is the case in your area, they are already doing that.

That's the common response of the left "don't care."

Well I care. And no, I don't see any solar systems installed in my area. Solar panels don't work very well on snow covered roof tops, and even if they did, it would be a losing investment. Too expensive of an investment you'll never get your money back on.

General Estimates for Solar Energy Payback Period

On the whole, one can say that payback periods for rooftop solar PV systems are in the range of 6-10 years in many parts of the world today. While this might appear like a very long time for pay back, please note that for a product that works for 25 years, recovering your investment in 8-10 is not a bad idea, as for the rest 15+ years, you are essentially getting electricity at no cost, as there are very little operating expenses for a rooftop solar PV system.
Read more at: What is the Payback Period of Rooftop Solar PV Systems? - Ask Solar Mango

As the price of solar continues to decline, the payback period is less today than when this was written.

According to the Columbus Dispatch, a standard system costs around 10K. It may do the job provided the house is sitting perfectly to absorb the sun, no trees or obstruction. But my electric bill is around $50.00 per month. Doing the calculations, it would take me 16 years to break even, and that's assuming none of the panels break or have a water leakage problem, and that we get the average sun light each of those years.

Are rooftop solar panels worthwhile in Ohio?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your kidding right? Stationary power plants are far more efficient than mobile systems.

What is more efficient a power plant providing electricity for electric cars or gasoline powered cars? - Quora

Would we need additional power plants to meet the demand? Absolutely, but they wouldn't be a problem.


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Would't be a problem? In some places it's a problem now without the electric cars. Where I live, they warn people to take it easy on their AC in the summer when it gets hot and humid so we don't have rolling blackouts. And what do you think will happen to our electric bills when companies invest hundreds of millions of dollars for those new plants?

Don't care. At that point, the smart people will have installed their own solar systems. In fact, if that is the case in your area, they are already doing that.

That's the common response of the left "don't care."

Well I care. And no, I don't see any solar systems installed in my area. Solar panels don't work very well on snow covered roof tops, and even if they did, it would be a losing investment. Too expensive of an investment you'll never get your money back on.

General Estimates for Solar Energy Payback Period

On the whole, one can say that payback periods for rooftop solar PV systems are in the range of 6-10 years in many parts of the world today. While this might appear like a very long time for pay back, please note that for a product that works for 25 years, recovering your investment in 8-10 is not a bad idea, as for the rest 15+ years, you are essentially getting electricity at no cost, as there are very little operating expenses for a rooftop solar PV system.
Read more at: What is the Payback Period of Rooftop Solar PV Systems? - Ask Solar Mango

As the price of solar continues to decline, the payback period is less today than when this was written.

According to the Columbus Dispatch, a standard system costs around 10K. It may do the job provided the house is sitting perfectly to absorb the sun, no trees or obstruction. But my electric bill is around $50.00 per month. Doing the calculations, it would take me 16 years to break even, and that's assuming none of the panels break or have a water leakage problem, and that we get the average sun light each of those years.

Are rooftop solar panels worthwhile in Ohio?

Another thing: Looking further, that estimate is with GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES to buy the system. That means taxpayer money for it to be any kind of advantage. Left on it's own, solar would be a losing investment:

A 5-kilowatt system in Ohio is a bit cheaper than other states, and with the tax breaks offered by the federal government, it is one of the more affordable buying states among the north. A system that costs about $18,500 would come down to $13,000 after the 30% federal rebate. Considering the 5.75% sales tax exemption, which would be another $1,063 off, and the first-year electricity savings of around $700, you’re looking at a much lower upfront cost of a little over $11,000.

Solar Panels for Ohio Homes: Tax Incentives, Prices, Savings

 

[Old Rocks]

5.1 kW 689 kWh 15 Suniva OPT340-72-4-100 Silver Mono Solar Panel 1 SolarEdge SE5000A-US-U Inverter
$8,172.00
Qty
Free Shipping Sale!

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Many 5 kw systems here for far less than you are quoting.

 

[Old Rocks]

Add a Powerwall 2, and you don't need to turn down your air conditioner in the summer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

5.1 kW 689 kWh 15 Suniva OPT340-72-4-100 Silver Mono Solar Panel 1 SolarEdge SE5000A-US-U Inverter
$8,172.00
Qty
Free Shipping Sale!

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Many 5 kw systems here for far less than you are quoting.

Looks to me like that's just the product. What about instillation and wiring? Plus I'm assuming this cost is with the federal subsidy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Add a Powerwall 2, and you don't need to turn down your air conditioner in the summer.

What is a Powerall 2, and what does it cost?

Okay, so let's recap:

To save the planet, you need to buy an electric car which are more expensive than standard gasoline cars. You need to have a solar panel system installed to charge the car subsidized by taxpayers (we are now 20 trillion in debt already) and you need to buy one of these Powerall things?

Let me ask: do you have all of these products?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Researchers have struggled for decades to safely use powerful—but flammable—lithium metal in a battery. Now John Goodenough, the 94-year-old father of the lithium-ion battery, is claiming a novel solution as a blockbuster advance.

If it proves out, the invention could allow electric cars to compete with conventional vehicles on sticker price. The improbable solution, described in a new paper from Goodenough and three co-authors, has drawn intense interest from leading science and technology publications. He estimates that the solution could store five to ten times as much energy as current standard lithium-ion batteries. That’s enough to have Google’s Eric Schmidt tweeting about it.
The 94-year-old father of the lithium-ion battery says he's made another big breakthrough

If Goodenough has done it again, then that semi will out pull most semi's on the road today. Just as the P100D destroys most ICE's on the quarter mile, the Tesla Semi will instantly make the present diesels into antiques. And they will come with the self driving technology already on board.

Remind us again how many electric cars we can buy under a grand on CL?

 

[usmbguest5318]

If it truly remains at $35k

Well, I can tell you now it's not going to.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I see advance set in fueling from 30-60 mins to 5-6 mins. I see ranges going from 200 miles to 500-600 miles.

If those things come to be, I'm sure people will absolutely prefer electric vehicles, cars, to internal combustion engined ones.

Electric car prices, though in the absolute sense likely will increase, relatively speaking their pricing is almost certain to mirror that of other tech items, much as cars long have, and decrease.

• A 1929 Packard 6-33 sedan cost ~$2800 before options. That sum corresponds to ~$40K today. One hopes I don't need to tell you how much better and more capable are any of today's $40K cars in comparison to that 1929 Packard.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[Old Rocks]

Add a Powerwall 2, and you don't need to turn down your air conditioner in the summer.

What is a Powerall 2, and what does it cost?

Okay, so let's recap:

To save the planet, you need to buy an electric car which are more expensive than standard gasoline cars. You need to have a solar panel system installed to charge the car subsidized by taxpayers (we are now 20 trillion in debt already) and you need to buy one of these Powerall things?

Let me ask: do you have all of these products?

Tesla Powerwall

No, not at present.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Add a Powerwall 2, and you don't need to turn down your air conditioner in the summer.

What is a Powerall 2, and what does it cost?

Okay, so let's recap:

To save the planet, you need to buy an electric car which are more expensive than standard gasoline cars. You need to have a solar panel system installed to charge the car subsidized by taxpayers (we are now 20 trillion in debt already) and you need to buy one of these Powerall things?

Let me ask: do you have all of these products?

Tesla Powerwall

No, not at present.

So on top of the other costs I listed in my last post, this thing is going to cost you $6,200 plus installation ($800.00 to $2,000) plus taxes and fees.

You may not have to rely on manufactured energy if you go through all this, but without a doubt, it's certainly not an investment. It would cost you less money just to buy your electricity from the electric company.

You take this $20,000, put it in a conservative investment, and in 20 years or so, You would make enough on compound interest to get at least 10K back from your money to help you offset the money you spent buying your electricity from an electric company.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I see advance set in fueling from 30-60 mins to 5-6 mins. I see ranges going from 200 miles to 500-600 miles.

If those things come to be, I'm sure people will absolutely prefer electric vehicles, cars, to internal combustion engined ones.

Electric car prices, though in the absolute sense likely will increase, relatively speaking their pricing is almost certain to mirror that of other tech items, much as cars long have, and decrease.

• A 1929 Packard 6-33 sedan cost ~$2800 before options. That sum corresponds to ~$40K today. One hopes I don't need to tell you how much better and more capable are any of today's $40K cars in comparison to that 1929 Packard.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

You do know that they have to make a electric vacuum loud so people buy it right?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Add a Powerwall 2, and you don't need to turn down your air conditioner in the summer.

What is a Powerall 2, and what does it cost?

Okay, so let's recap:

To save the planet, you need to buy an electric car which are more expensive than standard gasoline cars. You need to have a solar panel system installed to charge the car subsidized by taxpayers (we are now 20 trillion in debt already) and you need to buy one of these Powerall things?

Let me ask: do you have all of these products?

Tesla Powerwall

No, not at present.

So on top of the other costs I listed in my last post, this thing is going to cost you $6,200 plus installation ($800.00 to $2,000) plus taxes and fees.

You may not have to rely on manufactured energy if you go through all this, but without a doubt, it's certainly not an investment. It would cost you less money just to buy your electricity from the electric company.

You take this $20,000, put it in a conservative investment, and in 20 years or so, You would make enough on compound interest to get at least 10K back from your money to help you offset the money you spent buying your electricity from an electric company.

As the left always says "subsidies "

 

[Wyatt earp]

I see advance set in fueling from 30-60 mins to 5-6 mins. I see ranges going from 200 miles to 500-600 miles.

If those things come to be, I'm sure people will absolutely prefer electric vehicles, cars, to internal combustion engined ones.

Electric car prices, though in the absolute sense likely will increase, relatively speaking their pricing is almost certain to mirror that of other tech items, much as cars long have, and decrease.

• A 1929 Packard 6-33 sedan cost ~$2800 before options. That sum corresponds to ~$40K today. One hopes I don't need to tell you how much better and more capable are any of today's $40K cars in comparison to that 1929 Packard.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

It's funny you would post that, the pack is worth 40 grand today, yet my 96 mustang that costed me 40 grand in 96 you could buy one for under 2 grand today.

BTW how many volts or used leafs are for sale today?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Has a anyone here bought a used electric car?

 

[GHook93]

If the Tesla Model 3 (the $35k electric car) takes off, then the 2020s will be the decade of the electric car. The Model 3 is set to hit the market later this year and already has 700k pre-orders. If it truly remains at $35k, then the next models will be in the $20k. At will officially make them mainstream. I see advance set in fueling from 30-60 mins to 5-6 mins. I see ranges going from 200 miles to 500-600 miles.

By 2025 half of all new car purchases will be electric. By 2030, the gas engine will go the way of the typewriter.

Conservatives and liberal alike should cheer at the oil nations downfall: Russia, Venezuela, the Middle East etc.

The 2020s Could Be the Decade When Electric Cars Take Over


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Which only means there will need to be more electricity generated. Maybe we can have electric power plants!!

Not a bad idea. We have plenty of coal and natural gad


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[Mr Natural]

In 50 years they'll be laughing at us and our gasoline powered cars

 

[GHook93]

Investors see the value of Tesla skyrocketing to hundreds of billions of dollars in the next 5+ years. Eclipsing all other auto manufacturers. They just announced an electric truck.

Oil companies are still digging in the dirt for whatever scraps they can find.

Elon Musk is taking humanity into a bright future.

I don't know what kind of truck you're talking about, but as a professional truck driver, I can tell you that's not happening in our lifetime anytime soon. Pickup trucks or something, yes, that's possible.

Semi trucks are rather large and could hold a very large battery. What if a trucker could drive 600 miles before recharge? Then they recharge at the truck stops where they usually stop to rest? It will be a reality in the 2020s

I hate to say this to you, but think about another profession before it is too late. With in 5 yrs you are going to see driverless cars. Taxis and uber drivers will go first, but trucker won't be long.


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I'm not worried about it. Even if the government doesn't stop me from working (which they are trying to do now) I'll be retiring in about ten years.

When I'm loaded, my vehicle weighs around 75,000 lbs. There isn't an electric motor in the world that's going to pull that kind of weight on on incline. Even if there was, it would take so much electricity that it wouldn't be practical to use. You would have to recharge the batteries every two hours or so.

Driverless trucks? I don't think that will be a standard as long as I'm alive. Even with some success, insurance companies would be hesitant to insure those vehicles. They may be able to travel on the highway some day, but they will never be able to drive on regular streets. Because most cities don't design the roads for trucks, you have to make calculations when making turns so you don't hit telephone polls, crossing signs and stop signs. Up north, a driverless truck will not know when it's snowing or when the roads are slippery.

Right now the push is for automatic transmissions in trucks. My employer won't lease any of those. They drag when going uphills and it would be difficult to get out of snow covered dock with an automatic. You need a standard transmission to go into the highest gear possible to get out of those docks. An automatic transmission is not capable of doing that.

You highly under estimate the electric motor.

The Model X has more horsepower than the F-150

F-150: 282 to 450

ford f 150 horsepower - Google Search

Model X: 417 to 518
model x horsepower - Google Search

The driverless cars are coming and will be here within 10 years. Heck uber already has them on the road.


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Yes, Uber does have them on the road:

Internal company documents obtained by Recode show that Uber's self-driving cars regularly need human assistance.

The metrics show that Uber's self-driving cars can barely drive a mile before they "disengage," which is when a safety driver has to take control of the vehicle. Compared to company's like Waymo, Alphabet's self-driving-car company, the data shows Uber has a very long way to go before achieving full autonomy.

Here's what happens when a self-driving Uber fails

Cell phones used to come in a bag and cost dollar per min. Computers used to take up an entire room. Technology requires trial and error.


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[Old Rocks]

Has a anyone here bought a used electric car?

Well, both my rigs have only 150,000, so it will be another 100,000 for each before I need another vehicle. However, here is a listing of used EV's for Portland, Oregon.

Electric Cars For Sale in Portland, OR - CarGurus