4 year old exercises his second amendment rights

[2aguy]

personally know people who have defended themselves against attackers with a gun.

Do tell. How many and did they have to shoot anyone? This is exciting.

So you do believe there have been 15000 dgus in the past three days?

Just come out and say what you believe. Yes or no?

Wilbur......Chris just provided a link that will take you directly to Dr. Kleck........he is probably pretty busy...but if you are polite and persistant....he might just respond.....Dr. Lott has been kind enough in the past to respond directly to some of my questions...you should try it.....this is a great time to be alive........use the resources......

 

[2aguy]

suppose you doubt the rape statistics that there is a rape every 107 seconds??? Over 200,000 rapes per ye

Topic is guns and DGUs. You in the wrong thread?

You do realize that guns are also the best way to stop rape...right...? I have links to that research too.....

 

[rightwinger]

His study has been peer reviewed, brainless.

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

People carrying a gun are bad asses

Every time they have a gun in public, the bad guys leave them alone. Count up another win for Kleck

Doesn't matter what you think of the studies. They have been peer reviewed and are considered valid, even by the CDC.

Kleck De-bunkerd. Kleck Debunked | One Utah

What a shitty link! For one thing, UP to 2.5 million. Lol. For another thing, not all of those people actually SHOT their gun. In some instances, all they had to do was show that they were armed.

Now, what is your problem with people defending themselves against crime, shady?

Yea....dirty looks count for saving a life in gun fantasies

 

[ChrisL]

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

People carrying a gun are bad asses

Every time they have a gun in public, the bad guys leave them alone. Count up another win for Kleck

Doesn't matter what you think of the studies. They have been peer reviewed and are considered valid, even by the CDC.

Kleck De-bunkerd. Kleck Debunked | One Utah

What a shitty link! For one thing, UP to 2.5 million. Lol. For another thing, not all of those people actually SHOT their gun. In some instances, all they had to do was show that they were armed.

Now, what is your problem with people defending themselves against crime, shady?

Yea....dirty looks count for saving a life in gun fantasies

Maybe you missed this . . .

The authors, a couple of Oklahoma investment counselors with no graduate degrees, do not claim to have had any training in survey research methods. Like Hemenway (who is also untrained in survey methods), they believe that it’s perfectly plausible that surveys generate enormous over-estimates of crime-related experiences, as if this were the most commonplace thing in the world. The reality that survey experts are familiar with, however, is that surveys of the general public simply do not overestimate crime-related experiences.

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime. The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces. Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

So what does research on the flaws in surveys of crime-related behaviors tell us? It consistently indicates that survey respondents underreport (1) crime victimization experiences, (2) gun ownership and (3) their own illegal behavior. While it is true that a few respondents overstate their crime-related experiences, they are greatly outnumbered by those who understate them, i.e. those who falsely deny having the experience when in fact they did. In sum, research tells us that surveys underestimate the frequency of crime victimizations, gun possession and self-reported illegal behavior. Yet DeFilippis and Hughes somehow manage to conclude that defensive gun uses—incidents that always involve the first two of those elements, and usually the third as well—are overestimated in surveys.



Read more: Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

 

[airplanemechanic]

Putting you hand on your gun and stating you have a gun is in the 54 percent.... then within the stating you have a gun you also point the gun at the criminal....twit........

Please...think.....

Not related to what I quoted but I wanted to ask you, do you feel that someone who commits a computer crime should lose their right to own a gun for the rest of their lives?

 

[ChrisL]

Putting you hand on your gun and stating you have a gun is in the 54 percent.... then within the stating you have a gun you also point the gun at the criminal....twit........

Please...think.....

No related to what I quoted but I wanted to ask you, do you feel that someone who commits a computer crime should lose their right to own a gun for the rest of their lives?

I don't. That would be silly and violate that person's right to defend him or herself.

 

[2aguy]

Putting you hand on your gun and stating you have a gun is in the 54 percent.... then within the stating you have a gun you also point the gun at the criminal....twit........

Please...think.....

No related to what I quoted but I wanted to ask you, do you feel that someone who commits a computer crime should lose their right to own a gun for the rest of their lives?

that is an interesting question....many of them do loose their right to use a computer or the internet.....especially in the worst cases....child pornography......

I don't think someone who commits a computer crime should loose their gun rights......I could be persuaded either way...but right off the top...I can't see the reason to do it.....unless they were selling guns to drug cartels maybe.....

 

[2aguy]

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

People carrying a gun are bad asses

Every time they have a gun in public, the bad guys leave them alone. Count up another win for Kleck

Doesn't matter what you think of the studies. They have been peer reviewed and are considered valid, even by the CDC.

Kleck De-bunkerd. Kleck Debunked | One Utah

What a shitty link! For one thing, UP to 2.5 million. Lol. For another thing, not all of those people actually SHOT their gun. In some instances, all they had to do was show that they were armed.

Now, what is your problem with people defending themselves against crime, shady?

Yea....dirty looks count for saving a life in gun fantasies

Yeah...it happens like this....

Patient who pulled gun on armed robber hopes he taught him lesson

"Do you really want to (expletive) do this," Dockman said to the armed robber.

The young man holding the weapon didn't want to answer, fleeing.

Dockman said he was headed to his dialysis treatment around 4 a.m. Tuesday when he noticed someone coming out of the woods. The suspect walked up to his sport utilityvehicle asking for help.

"He just goes leans in and (holds up a gun)," Dockman said.

So James who's licensed to carry a concealed pistol, responded in kind. He pulled out his 9mm Ruger, loaded with hollow points with a round already in the chamber.

"This guy had a gun on me, I got a gun on him," Dockman said. "I don't want to kill this kid. But I'm going home. He started looking both ways at me and kind of like he didn't know what to do."

The standoff lasted seconds but James says it felt much longer.

"All it would have taken was a twitch and I would've killed him," Dockman said. "He goes 'Have a nice day.' And then he backs up and as he backs up I brought my gun back down and he went back into the woods."

 

[Brain357]

That implies strangers. That's not the case, in most cases.

Yeah....you know....the Friday night Date who doesn't take "NO" for an answer...will take a .45 as an answer just like a stranger.........what is it with you guys and your childish...12 year old way of thinking..........

Not all rapes are date rape......and guns are the best method to stop a rape...stranger or otherwise......twits.

Most rapes aren't defensable with a gun. The girl who is completely drunk isn't going to use a gun. The girl who is already naked and then says no cant use a gun. Many victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.

Wow ....you really are stupid.......and all the women grabbed in parking lots and at bus stops.....and in the parking garage of their college.....they should just be allowed to be raped...right...twit.

Do you always have to think like a 12 year old....?

Those are a tiny percent of rapes. And as we see in the OP, a gun is often a bad idea.

You are still stupid....so....because it is a smaller group than date rape.....they should just be raped? They should not be able to stop the rape with a gun? Are you really 12 years old or do you just post like a 12 year old.

And as I stated before......a gun stops date rape just as well as a back alley rape...twit.

They are welcome to have a gun if they wish. But they are probably more likely to be this woman shot by her 4 year old, or the woman shot dead by her kid in Walmart, or the bra holster woman who shot herself dead than to ever defend herself.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah....you know....the Friday night Date who doesn't take "NO" for an answer...will take a .45 as an answer just like a stranger.........what is it with you guys and your childish...12 year old way of thinking..........

Not all rapes are date rape......and guns are the best method to stop a rape...stranger or otherwise......twits.

Most rapes aren't defensable with a gun. The girl who is completely drunk isn't going to use a gun. The girl who is already naked and then says no cant use a gun. Many victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.

Wow ....you really are stupid.......and all the women grabbed in parking lots and at bus stops.....and in the parking garage of their college.....they should just be allowed to be raped...right...twit.

Do you always have to think like a 12 year old....?

Those are a tiny percent of rapes. And as we see in the OP, a gun is often a bad idea.

You are still stupid....so....because it is a smaller group than date rape.....they should just be raped? They should not be able to stop the rape with a gun? Are you really 12 years old or do you just post like a 12 year old.

And as I stated before......a gun stops date rape just as well as a back alley rape...twit.

They are welcome to have a gun if they wish. But they are probably more likely to be this woman shot by her 4 year old, or the woman shot dead by her kid in Walmart, or the bra holster woman who shot herself dead than to ever defend herself.

Wrong brain.....357,000,000 million guns in private hands....

over 320,000,000 million people in the United States....

non fatal gun accidents....19,000

fatal gun accidents... 505....

So no.....you are so wrong that you aren't even in the ballpark, the parking lot of the ballpark or even the state the ball park is in......

 

[Brain357]

The NCVS doesn't ask people if they used a gun for self defense.....it is not a gun study.....

What kind of a moron uses a study that doesn't specifically ask a direct question about gun use to say it is the definitive study on guns used for self defense....vs. actual gun studies that specifically ask......did you use a gun in the last year.....did you use a gun in the last 5 years......

Please.......use credible studies.....

Haven't you and I, as well as others, already gone through all this with the brain? Dr. Kleck's study has not been debunked. It is a part of the CDC study that was done, and brain knows that, as we have all posted links for him.

Kleck is 2.5 million. That means there would have to be 75 million defenses the last 30 years, or one for almost every single gun owner. Yet they are rare among gun owners. Even you aren't dumb enough to think his numbers are possible.

His study has been peer reviewed, brainless.

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

Why do you guys always target Kleck?....one study of at least 13......which supports his numbers......


You target his study because it was the study done with the most attention to detail, and the most attention to getting it right....of course...that puts his numbers right in the middle of the highest bracket of studies....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Ah the list of studies that are really just surveys and we see how accurate that is with all this presidential polling. If thats not enough many on your list aren't even national, don't exist, or you have zero details about the survey. Your list is a joke.

 

[ChrisL]

Haven't you and I, as well as others, already gone through all this with the brain? Dr. Kleck's study has not been debunked. It is a part of the CDC study that was done, and brain knows that, as we have all posted links for him.

Kleck is 2.5 million. That means there would have to be 75 million defenses the last 30 years, or one for almost every single gun owner. Yet they are rare among gun owners. Even you aren't dumb enough to think his numbers are possible.

His study has been peer reviewed, brainless.

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

Why do you guys always target Kleck?....one study of at least 13......which supports his numbers......


You target his study because it was the study done with the most attention to detail, and the most attention to getting it right....of course...that puts his numbers right in the middle of the highest bracket of studies....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Ah the list of studies that are really just surveys and we see how accurate that is with all this presidential polling. If thats not enough many on your list aren't even national, don't exist, or you have zero details about the survey. Your list is a joke.

Look, brainless, you are no expert so zip it.

 

[Brain357]

Fifty-four percent of the defensive gun uses involved somebody verbally referring to the gun.

Forty-seven percent involved the gun being pointed at the criminal.

How do you get greater than 100% for respondents? Why can't you answer that question 2a? You know everything about gun surveys.

And why hasn't there been another survey in the past 5 years to validate a survey 25 years old?

Twit...it isn't over 100 percent...the 47% is one part of the 54%......they are not added together....... I posted the link to his interview...you can find his actual paper...please...go and see for yourself....any questions you have....email him...he might just respond......you can probably even call him if you want......

These studies are expensive...and after the Department of Justice under bill clinton failed to debunk Kleck...coming up with the 1,500,000 defenses..which is not what they wanted to find.....and then obama's CDC studying all of the gun research and coming up with 500,000-3,000,000 defensive gun uses...and again not getting the low numbers they were hoping for....they haven't come up with a way to make a study lie about actual defensive gun use...because the methods Kleck used were actual research methods.......as were the Dept. of Justice research methods.....

So spending more money to get the same results hasn't been worth it.........until they can get the outcome they want...they probabaly don't want to spend more money.....

If the CDC estimated DGUs please back that up with a list showing they did a study and arrived at an estimate. Your constant lies are tiring.

 

[Brain357]

Kleck is 2.5 million. That means there would have to be 75 million defenses the last 30 years, or one for almost every single gun owner. Yet they are rare among gun owners. Even you aren't dumb enough to think his numbers are possible.

His study has been peer reviewed, brainless.

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

Why do you guys always target Kleck?....one study of at least 13......which supports his numbers......


You target his study because it was the study done with the most attention to detail, and the most attention to getting it right....of course...that puts his numbers right in the middle of the highest bracket of studies....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Ah the list of studies that are really just surveys and we see how accurate that is with all this presidential polling. If thats not enough many on your list aren't even national, don't exist, or you have zero details about the survey. Your list is a joke.

Look, brainless, you are no expert so zip it.

So how big was the la times survey? Was it national?

 

[ChrisL]

Fifty-four percent of the defensive gun uses involved somebody verbally referring to the gun.

Forty-seven percent involved the gun being pointed at the criminal.

How do you get greater than 100% for respondents? Why can't you answer that question 2a? You know everything about gun surveys.

And why hasn't there been another survey in the past 5 years to validate a survey 25 years old?

Twit...it isn't over 100 percent...the 47% is one part of the 54%......they are not added together....... I posted the link to his interview...you can find his actual paper...please...go and see for yourself....any questions you have....email him...he might just respond......you can probably even call him if you want......

These studies are expensive...and after the Department of Justice under bill clinton failed to debunk Kleck...coming up with the 1,500,000 defenses..which is not what they wanted to find.....and then obama's CDC studying all of the gun research and coming up with 500,000-3,000,000 defensive gun uses...and again not getting the low numbers they were hoping for....they haven't come up with a way to make a study lie about actual defensive gun use...because the methods Kleck used were actual research methods.......as were the Dept. of Justice research methods.....

So spending more money to get the same results hasn't been worth it.........until they can get the outcome they want...they probabaly don't want to spend more money.....

If the CDC estimated DGUs please back that up with a list showing they did a study and arrived at an estimate. Your constant lies are tiring.

We already have . . . a whole bunch of times. Just because you ignore them does not mean they don't exist.

 

[Brain357]

I personally know people who have defended themselves against attackers with a gun.

How many times have you?

 

[Synthaholic]

Gary Kleck | Florida State College of Criminology & Criminal Justice

I wonder how much of Mr. Kleck's "research" is underwritten and funded by the NRA?

 

[Brain357]

Fifty-four percent of the defensive gun uses involved somebody verbally referring to the gun.

Forty-seven percent involved the gun being pointed at the criminal.

How do you get greater than 100% for respondents? Why can't you answer that question 2a? You know everything about gun surveys.

And why hasn't there been another survey in the past 5 years to validate a survey 25 years old?

Twit...it isn't over 100 percent...the 47% is one part of the 54%......they are not added together....... I posted the link to his interview...you can find his actual paper...please...go and see for yourself....any questions you have....email him...he might just respond......you can probably even call him if you want......

These studies are expensive...and after the Department of Justice under bill clinton failed to debunk Kleck...coming up with the 1,500,000 defenses..which is not what they wanted to find.....and then obama's CDC studying all of the gun research and coming up with 500,000-3,000,000 defensive gun uses...and again not getting the low numbers they were hoping for....they haven't come up with a way to make a study lie about actual defensive gun use...because the methods Kleck used were actual research methods.......as were the Dept. of Justice research methods.....

So spending more money to get the same results hasn't been worth it.........until they can get the outcome they want...they probabaly don't want to spend more money.....

If the CDC estimated DGUs please back that up with a list showing they did a study and arrived at an estimate. Your constant lies are tiring.

We already have . . . a whole bunch of times. Just because you ignore them does not mean they don't exist.

No you havent. Link?

 

[ChrisL]

His study has been peer reviewed, brainless.

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review

Dr. Kleck | The Propaganda Professor

There’s a certain number that gun fanatics just love. Well, actually there are several numbers they love, but there’s one in particular that they lustfully salivate over: 2.5 million. That’s the putative number of defensive gun uses (DGUs) that occur in the United States every single year. That’s a highly impressive “statistic”, which is why you’ll see it starring on bumper stickers or websites or wherever else people want to emphasize the need for firearms in order to feel safe from all the THEMs out there.

Except the “statistic” is not really a statistic. It’s a projection, an estimate, put forth in a “study” by Florida criminologist Dr. Gary Kleck (in collaboration with Professor Marc Gertz), based on interviews of alleged defenders in 1993. Except the “study” wasn’t really a study; it was a survey, which is a sort of glorified poll.

Whatever terminology you choose to use, the point is that the Kleck “study”, which involved 222 respondents, didn’t really estimate how many DGU’s actually occur; it estimated how often gun owners say they occur. That’s a different thing, but just how different is it? Well, let’s see how it stacks up against the real world.

Why do you guys always target Kleck?....one study of at least 13......which supports his numbers......


You target his study because it was the study done with the most attention to detail, and the most attention to getting it right....of course...that puts his numbers right in the middle of the highest bracket of studies....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Ah the list of studies that are really just surveys and we see how accurate that is with all this presidential polling. If thats not enough many on your list aren't even national, don't exist, or you have zero details about the survey. Your list is a joke.

Look, brainless, you are no expert so zip it.

So how big was the la times survey? Was it national?

Are you all stupid or something???

Kleck conducted a national survey in 1994 (the National Self-Defense Survey) and, extrapolating from the 5,000 households surveyed, estimated that in 1993 there were approximately 2.5 million incidents of defensive gun use (DGU - the use of guns for self-protection), compared to about 0.5 million gun crimes as estimated by the National Crime Victimization Survey.[13]

 

[ChrisL]

Gary Kleck | Florida State College of Criminology & Criminal Justice

I wonder how much of Mr. Kleck's "research" is underwritten and funded by the NRA?

No matter how much you try to smear Dr. Kleck, it is not going to work. Dr. Kleck approached his studies from an ANTI gun perspective. When he found out the truth, he changed his opinion, like any intelligent person.

In 1993, Kleck won the Michael J. Hindelang Award from the American Society of Criminology for his book Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America (Aldine de Gruyter, 1991).[20] He has testified before Congress and state legislatures on gun control proposals. His research was cited in the Supreme Court's landmark District of Columbia v. Heller decision, which struck down the D.C. handgun ban and held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms.[21]