A Good Definition of Treason

[maineman]

On May 7th, a federal judge awarded $104 million in damages to the families of 9/11, to be taken from Iraqi government assets. Judge Harold Baer says the case proved, “albeit barely”, that Iraq provided material support that contributed to 9/11. The case proved that Iraq did indeed have links to Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban

and now...the rest of the story:

"In his decision, Judge Baer explained that he had based his findings on the statements of Woolsey, Powell, Tenet, and Mylroie, all of whom he considered experts on the Saddam-9/11 connection, he said: "The opinion testimony of the plaintiffs' experts is sufficient to meet plaintiffs' burden that Iraq collaborated in or supported bin Laden/al Qaeda's terrorist acts of September 11. . ." he wrote."

http://www.countercurrents.org/iraq-pringle281006.htm

newsflash: opinions are not FACTS

 

[maineman]

1992

This is the first year that contact between Saddam Hussein’s regime and Osama Bin Laden’s organization was established. According to CIA reports, the first meeting between a Bin Laden representative and an Iraqi representative occurred. By the end of 2002, nearly 100 direct meetings of the kind would be recorded by the CIA.[5]

One of the first meetings was between Ayman Al-Zawahiri, head of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad which later merged with Al-Qaeda, making Zawahiri second only to Bin Laden. This has been confirmed by a former Iraqi intelligence officer and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan forces.[6]

meetings. meetings. meetings.

newsflash: meetings are not synonymous with HELP

 

[glockmail]

.... based his findings ....

The rest of the story summed up nicely.

 

[glockmail]

meetings. meetings. meetings.

newsflash: meetings are not synonymous with HELP

Over 100 documented meetings and you still deny the connection.

 

[maineman]

The rest of the story summed up nicely.

based his findings on opinions.... opinions are not facts.

 

[maineman]

Over 100 documented meetings and you still deny the connection.

I denied your claims that it was a FACT that Saddam HELPED Osama.

That was your claim.... that it was a FACT that Saddam had HELPED Osama...

and you can't quite seem to back up that claim with any showing of FACTS.

why am I not surprised?

 

[glockmail]

based his findings on opinions.... opinions are not facts.

The findings of the court make it fact.

 

[glockmail]

....

why am I not surprised?

Why am I not surprised that you would dismiss a report with well over 100 documented references, simply because it provides evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that disputes your claim.

 

[maineman]

Why am I not surprised that you would dismiss a report with well over 100 documented references, simply because it provides evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that disputes your claim.

the report documents meetings. how does that dispute my claim that it is not a fact that saddam helped osama?

If, every morning, you and I walk to work and our schedules are such that we meet at the same street corner each morning.... are you suggesting that, after that happens 100 times that you can somehow claim that it is a FACT that you have HELPED me get to work?

 

[glockmail]

What do you think they were doing at these 100 meetings. What about all the other references? Your logic is beyond stupid.

 

[glockmail]

"How could Osama bin Laden -- who's hiding in the middle of nowhere in Afghanistan in small caves and valleys -- train people and gather information and send people to do such high-level operation? We all know this is a high-level operation. This cannot be done by a person who does not even own a plane in Afghanistan, who cannot offer such training in Afghanistan. This is definitely done by a mastermind like Saddam. ..." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

 

[maineman]

What do you think they were doing at these 100 meetings. What about all the other references? Your logic is beyond stupid.

I have no idea for certain what they were doing at those meetings.

and neither do you.

so your statement that it is a FACT that Saddam helped Osama is false.

just deal with it.

 

[maineman]

"How could Osama bin Laden -- who's hiding in the middle of nowhere in Afghanistan in small caves and valleys -- train people and gather information and send people to do such high-level operation? We all know this is a high-level operation. This cannot be done by a person who does not even own a plane in Afghanistan, who cannot offer such training in Afghanistan. This is definitely done by a mastermind like Saddam. ..." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

that fellow is entitled to his opinion.... and you are entitled to agree with it.

that does not make it a FACT.

why is that concept so hard to bang into your thick skull?

 

[glockmail]

"Also convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing was the “Blind Sheikh” Omar Abdel al-Rahman, believed to be the spiritual mentor for Ayman Al-Zawahiri and Osama Bin Laden. It is suspicious that such a figure would work with an alleged Iraqi intelligence agent, although al-Rahman himself may not have known the fact. Another conspirator, Mohammed Salameh is suspected of working alongside Iraqi intelligence—in fact, the brother of Abu Halima, another conspirator, confirmed this. Salameh is known to have made nearly fifty phone calls to Iraq between June 10th and the day of the bombing attack. His uncle, Kadri Abu Bakr, is known to have worked in Baghdad since 1986 for a Palestinian terrorist unit.

After the bombing, Ramzi Yousef fled to Manila, harbored by Mohamed Jamal Khalifia, the brother-in-law of Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden, through Khalifia, paid Yousef to train members of Abu Sayyaf, an Al-Qaeda branch in the Philippines, about bomb production.[7]
Mylroie says that many senior US government officials believe Iraq was involved in the bombing, as well as those involved in the investigation. She quotes Jim Fox, the leader of the FBI investigation as saying, “The majority of senior law-enforcement officers in New York believe that Iraq was involved.” She also claims that Egyptian and Saudi intelligence sources concurred with the view."

 

[maineman]

"Also convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing was the “Blind Sheikh” Omar Abdel al-Rahman, believed to be the spiritual mentor for Ayman Al-Zawahiri and Osama Bin Laden. It is suspicious that such a figure would work with an alleged Iraqi intelligence agent, although al-Rahman himself may not have known the fact. Another conspirator, Mohammed Salameh is suspected of working alongside Iraqi intelligence—in fact, the brother of Abu Halima, another conspirator, confirmed this. Salameh is known to have made nearly fifty phone calls to Iraq between June 10th and the day of the bombing attack. His uncle, Kadri Abu Bakr, is known to have worked in Baghdad since 1986 for a Palestinian terrorist unit.

After the bombing, Ramzi Yousef fled to Manila, harbored by Mohamed Jamal Khalifia, the brother-in-law of Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden, through Khalifia, paid Yousef to train members of Abu Sayyaf, an Al-Qaeda branch in the Philippines, about bomb production.[7]
Mylroie says that many senior US government officials believe Iraq was involved in the bombing, as well as those involved in the investigation. She quotes Jim Fox, the leader of the FBI investigation as saying, “The majority of senior law-enforcement officers in New York believe that Iraq was involved.” She also claims that Egyptian and Saudi intelligence sources concurred with the view."

the opinions of Laurie Mylroie are not facts..... but you are welcome to keep spewing

 

[glockmail]

"Another highlight of 1993 was the attack on American soldiers in Somalia, and the following retreat out of the country. This was the first time that Bin Laden’s forces would loosely work with Iraqi intelligence, which had been recruiting militants in Sudan and Somalia. Bin Laden’s militants in Somalia would fight alongside these recruits and even members of Iraq’s special forces. It is unknown the level of direct contact Iraq and Bin Laden had in coordinating the events.[9]"

 

[glockmail]

"...also in 1993, was Iraqi intelligence’s attempted assassination of former President Bush in Kuwait. The attack to be carried out with a truck bomb and armed assassins was foiled, but this was significant as the first proven Iraqi-sponsored attack. I also suggest reading Laurie Mylroie’s book, “Study of Revenge”, which has evidence that Iraq was also involved in a plot to be carried out in late 1993 to destroy the United Nations building in New York, the federal building, and the Holland and Lincoln tunnels."

 

[glockmail]

"The beginning of cooperation with Al-Qaeda began in 1994. Farouq Hijazi, a high-ranking Iraqi intelligence officer, had his first meeting with Osama Bin Laden in Sudan.[10] It is believed they discussed cooperation in handling Islamic terrorists and insurgents, and Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons facilities in Sudan."

 

[maineman]

"Another highlight of 1993 was the attack on American soldiers in Somalia, and the following retreat out of the country. This was the first time that Bin Laden’s forces would loosely work with Iraqi intelligence, which had been recruiting militants in Sudan and Somalia. Bin Laden’s militants in Somalia would fight alongside these recruits and even members of Iraq’s special forces. It is unknown the level of direct contact Iraq and Bin Laden had in coordinating the events.[9]"

is there something in that quote that proves that Saddam HELPED Al Qaeda in any way? I missed it.

keep spewing thought.... it is a mindless diversion for me on a slow thursday afternoon.

 

[glockmail]

"According to Insight’s investigation, Edwin Angeles had a videotaped interrogation with the Filipino police. He confirmed that an American named “John Lepney” was involved, as was another American named Terry. The first meeting, he said occurred just prior to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and meetings continued later in 1994. At the meetings was Ramzi Yousef’s half-brother, Ahmad Hassim. Angeles says that he first met Yousef in July, 1989 as a “personal envoy” of Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden’s brother-in-law, Muhammed Khalifia, was at the time establishing the Abu Sayyaf group in the Philippines using front companies. However, Yousef is suspected of being paid by Iraq to carry out the June 20, 1994 bombing of a Muslim shrine in Iran. Yousef’s father and brother also worked with Iraqi intelligence in the Iranian dissident terrorist group, the People’s Mujahideen Organization of Iran.[15] In another testimony, that of Abdul Hakim Murrad, arrested for working with Yousef in the first World Trade Center bombing, also says that Ramzi Yousef and his co-workers in the Philippines were responsible for the attack in Oklahoma City. Yousef’s role throughout the years as an Iraqi-sponsored terrorist may be the key to understanding the role of Saddam Hussein in terrorism. "