A minimum of $27 an hour is the wage needed in America for a modest one bedroom apartment.

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

So what do you propose they do? Sounds like you’re hinting that successful people, who made sacrifices to get career training and/or start a small business give money to kids who feel they’re too above it all to deign to share an apartment.

And no idea what your smack against my Jewish values was all about. There is nothing contrary to Jewish values in expecting able-bodied young adults to share an apartment or rooms in a house if that is what they can afford. My father was a religious Jew and found nothing wrong with renting a room in a basement until he could afford better. Neither did his parents, who were very old-fashioned religious Jews.

Expectimg handouts is NOT a Jewish value. What IS a Jewish value is helping people support themselves, and that is why I am glad we have Pell Grants for lower-income people - so they can learn a trade, or work toward a degree, and be able to earn more than minimum wage.

This is what is upsetting. Because you’re either ignoring the point or not caring about it. And I don’t support free handouts. I believe I’ve already said that so you don’t need to worry about repeating that point.

Here is the point with respect for the third time. The average 25 year-old in the USA makes half of what they did 40 years ago. Which was perhaps your era and the era of many of the older posters here.

What don’t you understand about that point.?

I mean the point is Crystal clear it is harder to make money today compared to your era. It’s an irrefutable fact discussed by Professor Scott Galloway. It’s the raw data.

And the solution to the issues is to have better leadership.

1 Stop printing trillions of dollars… do something about the national debt

2 Stop bringing in millions of illegals jacking up the housing costs and lowering the wages.

Jewish values is a critical thing because you have always said you are Jewish…. and I try and believe in Catholic values as a Catholic. I’m not perfect but these are things that guide me and you constantly talk about your Jewish values so that’s why I brought it up. Nothing negative is meant… But there’s a disconnect going on this conversation as you keep going back to points that don’t relate to the conversation like perceived laziness among the youth, sharing apartments, or the false assumption that I believe in handouts for people.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Houses only cost 40k and there was no cable internet cell phones

And yes, most Americans vould afford 2 cars, a boat etc..

This^

In my dad‘s day and age it was a lot easier to get into the middle class. Most families like I you said had two cars. They had 2 to 4 kids. They could afford a two or three week vacation per year. They could send their kids to college. The home prices were astronomically lower compared to what it is.

And in response to this people keep throwing up things like the perception of laziness among the youth, the idea of sharing apartments, talking about their wages 40 years ago and how they got to and from work, etc. But they cannot understand or respond to the irrefutable fact that the average 25-year-old today in America makes half of what they did 40 years ago. the nation is more in debt than it has ever been. We’re bringing in more illegals than we ever have therefore jacking up the costs and lowering wages.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Even back in the day when the mortgage rate was 10 to 18% the middle-class jobs were easier to be found People talk about the 1980s when the mortgage rate was as high as 17 or 18%. OK well according to the raw data the average 25-year-old made twice as much in those days compared to what they do today. There you go what more has to be said.

Mortgage Rate History: 1970s To 2024 | Bankrate

Today’s mortgage rates aren’t all that different from the rates of years past. Here’s how they compare.

www.bankrate.com

Ok the jobs are not what they used to be. There’s tons of young people who have a great work ethic, but they are living in a country where there are millions and millions of illegals that continuously are brought in, which is therefore jacking up the cost of living and lowering wages. Not to mention radical left-wing culture infiltrating our economy.

Also, the cost of a higher education is astronomically higher today compared to previous decades of American history. Especially the 1980s.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

So what do you propose they do? Sounds like you’re hinting that successful people, who made sacrifices to get career training and/or start a small business give money to kids who feel they’re too above it all to deign to share an apartment.

And no idea what your smack against my Jewish values was all about. There is nothing contrary to Jewish values in expecting able-bodied young adults to share an apartment or rooms in a house if that is what they can afford. My father was a religious Jew and found nothing wrong with renting a room in a basement until he could afford better. Neither did his parents, who were very old-fashioned religious Jews.

Expectimg handouts is NOT a Jewish value. What IS a Jewish value is helping people support themselves, and that is why I am glad we have Pell Grants for lower-income people - so they can learn a trade, or work toward a degree, and be able to earn more than minimum wage.

Another thing to look for young Americans at is Hustler University created by Andrew Tate. It cost like 50 bucks a month , better than paying $30,000 a year for a college education that might not end up helping at all.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

And the average house was 1100 square feet, with one bathroom. And most people did NOT have two cars. They had carpools to work, or took public transport. And I knew nobody who had a boat!

The problem is expectations for what a decent life is have expanded so much that the way people used to live is now viewed as downtrodden.

Photo I took of some homes in Lackawana. It’s from a working class area. Those homes are from as old as the 1940s. Renovated a little bit but their core base is still there. And they’re bigger than 1100 feet. They were by Bethlehem Steel, which employed at one time 20,000 people but has since long ceased operations.

Those homes were very very affordable in the 1950s. And they were beautiful look at them …even today they look wonderful. They were not some shit hole housing. They were a sign of what America was in it’s best era.

That was in the area of American greatness. The 1950s when we had steel and Auto jobs by the millions. People could get them right out of high school. We haven’t had those jobs for decades. And that’s another thing we need politicians to bring back the middle-class jobs. The CEO class is not what it used to be. We need to bring forth people like Carnegie, Rockefeller and Henry Ford.

 

[AntonToo]

The average 25 year-old in the USA makes half of what they did 40 years ago.

Again, where do you get that statistic from?

REAL MEDIAN INCOME is the metric generally used for historic income growth comparisons and it shows nothing of the sort.

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2023/09/12/median-household-incomes-by-age-bracket-1967-2022

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

I agree. Rare, but yeah. Most folks don't realize that all you have to do is walk into the college, say you want to be a student, and they'll take care of the rest.

Price Of College Increasing Almost 8 Times Faster Than Wages

The cost to attend a university increased nearly 8x faster than wages did. While the cost of a four-year degree exploded to $104,480, real median wages only went from $54,042 to $59,039 between 1989 and 2016. There is a disconnect between the rising costs of education and the flattening of wages.

www.forbes.com

The average cost of college tuition in the U.S. for undergraduate students has more than tripled, multiplying by 3.08 times over the last 58 years, according to data from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES). It rose from $4,648 in 1963 to $14,307 in 2021. That's accounting for inflation

Cost of College Over Time | BestColleges

College costs have surpassed inflation increases over the last decade. Find out what's driving the price hikes, and discover just how much costs have risen over time.

www.bestcolleges.com

 

[elektra]

Even back in the day when the mortgage rate was 10 to 18% the middle-class jobs were easier to be found People talk about the 1980s when the mortgage rate was as high as 17 or 18%. OK well according to the raw data the average 25-year-old made twice as much in those days compared to what they do today. There you go what more has to be said.

Mortgage Rate History: 1970s To 2024 | Bankrate

Today’s mortgage rates aren’t all that different from the rates of years past. Here’s how they compare.

www.bankrate.com

Ok the jobs are not what they used to be. There’s tons of young people who have a great work ethic, but they are living in a country where there are millions and millions of illegals that continuously are brought in, which is therefore jacking up the cost of living and lowering wages. Not to mention radical left-wing culture infiltrating our economy.

Also, the cost of a higher education is astronomically higher today compared to previous decades of American history. Especially the 1980s.

Home loans were 15 years back in the 80's. Government policy to guarantee loans of 30 years against default resulted in the dramatic rise in home prices

 

[whitehall]

Who the hell is Diane Yentel? has she been elected to anything? Her opinion is just as good as anyone else.

 

[AntonToo]

they cannot understand or respond to the irrefutable fact that the average 25-year-old today in America makes half of what they did 40 years ago.

Refuted just fine by your inability to support your assertions.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Who the hell is Diane Yentel? has she been elected to anything? Her opinion is just as good as anyone else.

Her organization has taken an in-depth look at the raw data surrounding the price of homes and the wages of the working class in America. She is an excellent source for this matter.

frankly, it’s a breath or fresh air to hear a discussion like this. Rather than how we are constantly bombarded about nonsense about race, white privilege, gender, foreign wars that have no effect on America.


The cost of living is the single most important topic in America right now. That’s according to a pew survey by the way. And if we can’t help out our self, we can’t help out other countries in the best manner

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

So if you have a room mate in a two bedroom apartment, you need $16 per hour?

Obviously the requirements would be significantly less if two people were paying equal costs for the apartment. But there’s a few issues here. One this kind of sounds like communism sharing an apartment what’s next? Let’s just have four people share one apartment that is literally what occurred in the Soviet union massive amounts of families were in tiny buildings.

Two loneliness and depression are high for young people in America. They might not even have close friends to share an apartment with let alone a significant other.

I thing The idea of a couple sharing an apartment sounds pretty good, but we have a record number of young people who are single and using a bunch of drugs so that’s an issue with there as well. Btw traditional masculinity opposes this and demands that the man take care of all of the costs, even at a young age… that kind of situation built America gave us the strongest military and middle class economy in world history.

Bottom line prices are astronomical today compared to under Trump. I often wonder in this conversation when I’m talking with Trump supporters it sounds like I’m actually talking with anti-Trump people… because its Donald Trump himself who is bringing up the high costs in this country today where as during his administration the costs were much lower.

 

[AntonToo]

Bottom line prices are astronomical today compared to under Trump. I often wonder in this conversation when I’m talking with Trump supporters it sounds like I’m actually talking with anti-Trump people… because its Donald Trump himself who is bringing up the high costs in this country today where as during his administration the costs were much lower.

We also don't have a historic recession like we did under Trump, you miss that too or did it get completely compermentalized away in your head?