A Question For The Left Wingers On This Forum

[Indeependent]

Without sarcasm - NOTHING you posted about Trump has any basis in reality. The guy is, was and always shall be a conman and a criminal.

The Democrats are not the Party sending jobs overseas. The Democrats are the party that is pulling the economy out of the ditch every single time the Republican Party crashes it, which so far, is 3 times since 1980.

Trump didn't do ANY of the things you claimed. Wages were going up under Obama, but as long as he was dealing with the unemployment created by the Bush economic crash, wages were not going up.

It's obvious you never read any interviews with Bill Clinton.

 

[sparky]

The "truth"? What is "the truth"?
Do you have any specifics?

The 'truth' is, partisans are tools for a one party system cloaked in the guise of choice
a glaring specific would be that Congress has flipped maybe a dozen times in the last 40 odd years, while the middle class has slowly vanished....



Keep in mind, one can love his/her country, while loathing those running it, which is usually the case with partisans ,and while the sentiment is actually noble , their targets are wrong

The system is broken , and they (the folks in power) want us to target each other, not them

You'll note this goes double for the insurrection , while BLM can burn down whatever it wants

~S~

 

[frigidweirdo]

The 'truth' is, partisans are tools for a one party system cloaked in the guise of choice
a glaring specific would be that Congress has flipped maybe a dozen times in the last 40 odd years, while the middle class has slowly vanished....



Keep in mind, one can love his/her country, while loathing those running it, which is usually the case with partisans ,and while the sentiment is actually noble , their targets are wrong

The system is broken , and they (the folks in power) want us to target each other, not them

You'll note this goes double for the insurrection , while BLM can burn down whatever it wants

~S~

Yes, partisans, anyone who believes in -isms and others will make things fit their ideology, rather than trying to figure out the best way for themselves.
I guess we're born being spoon fed, and many people feel comfortable that way.

Most people who call themselves "patriots" have probably never even taken the time to figure out what "patriotism" is. They just make the assumption (or push this idea) that whatever they have been force fed must be "patriotism".
The system is very broken, which is why I push Proportional Representation.

 

[Mac1958]

I am beginning to run into a brick wall on here where I realize none of you are interested in the truth...

"The Truth". There's that word again.

Both far ends of the spectrum just love tossing that word around, politicizing it, as if they own it.

What is your personal definition of "The Truth"?

 

[sparky]

Most people who call themselves "patriots" have probably never even taken the time to figure out what "patriotism" is.

Maybe it's just to close to partisan in the dictionary for them?

The system is very broken, which is why I push Proportional Representation.

an apt RX imho Frigid one.......add term limits.....a third party.....and lobbyist caps....that would be a start

~S~

 

[frigidweirdo]

Maybe it's just to close to partisan in the dictionary for them?

an apt RX imho Frigid one.......add term limits.....a third party.....and lobbyist caps....that would be a start

~S~

I think the thing with "patriotism", especially for the right, is that they can then justify anything.

"Patriotism" used the way they use it, is one step away from fascism. Fascism wants a dictator, the dictator knows best. Other people don't need to have opinions, it's already been thought out for them. Using "Patriotism" in their way, implies that this is the right way, no thought need to be given.

Fascism likes strong militaries, with parades and maybe a couple of invasions, national pride is built around being gung-ho and chest beating. "Patriotism" in their way is about respecting the military, giving precedence to the military, wanting leaders who had military experience, wanting those grunts in the military to be given special service, "thank you for your service" (to helping us make rich people richer).

Suppression of the opposition. "I'm a patriot, therefore if you oppose me, you are a traitor", it's simple, very simple, suppression of opposing ideas.

Third parties can only exist with a change in the way people vote. The FPTP system is a two party system. The UK has it. It has the right wing Tories, it has the left wing Labour, with the Lib Dems messing everything up for the left. In the last election the Tories had less than 1,000 votes more than the Lib Dems + Labour and yet they got 150 seats more.

https://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2019-12-12/Statistics/Majority

In the top 23 seats for the highest majority going to the winning party party, Labour had all but four.
In the bottom 23 seats for lowest majority going to the winning party, the Tories had 12 of those, Labour had 8.
It's an unfair system that benefits the main two parties. Hits any party that has a similar party, which is why the Reps and Dems will not allow a third party. Which is why you end up with the Tea Party and Bernie Sanders in two parties they really should not be in.

 

[sparky]

"Patriotism" used the way they use it, is one step away from fascism.

evident on the USMB as a daily exercise Frigid one

i suppose we all have some level of denial mechanisms in us....

~S~

 

[citygator]

Without sarcasm:

When was the last time any of you changed your mind concerning anything pertaining to Trump, or even just politics in general?

I am beginning to run into a brick wall on here where I realize none of you are interested in the truth, only playing for Team Blue.

Is this altogether surprising? Not remotely. But usually there are a few more reasonable ones in the bunch of any group. After a few months on this forum, I am not discovering that here in any capacity whatsoever.

Is the Right guilty of the same? Yes, of course, and perhaps more frequently than I would like to admit. But it still pales in comparison to the New Left.

Full disclosure for context: I used to be a Democrat up until March 2020, although I began drifting away during the Trump Presidency when I saw how insane my former Party became. How one man could drive them to abandon all the principles they supposedly believe in. Trump really lifted the veil from my eyes. Whatever you think of his personality - he definitively exposed the collusion between the corporate media, the intelligence agencies and the Democratic Party.

And then the riots and lockdowns came. And I saw tangible undeniable evidence that the very Party accusing the Right of authoritarianism were guilty of the very accusations they let fly. I could not, with all good conscience, continue to support them. Esp. when Trump began supporting things in both foreign and domestic policy that the Left once (apparently) pretended to believe in.

Do not believe in stupid wars? In 2008 you were a Democrat. Now you're a Republican.

Want to stop sending jobs overseas? In 2008 you were a Democrat, now you're a Republican.

Want higher wages for the middle class? Trump pulled it off, Obama failed.

I'm so tired of people just looking at D and R without acknowledging that they are simply labels, and political parties are fluid and inevitably always change.

I still hate Bush and Cheney. And I could swear the new MAGA Party (for the most part) now hates them more than the Democrats.

I didn't change, my Party did.

Fortunately the Republican party did as well.

OK, off the soapbox.

100% lies. Not one single democrat on the planet looked at what Trump did and switched parties.

The only wars the Republicans don’t like are wars where Russia is a combatant. Trolls.

Republicans gave free rein to pull in overseas profits into the US with a tax break.

Trump-GOP Tax Law Encourages Companies to Move Jobs Offshore–and New Tax Cuts Won’t Change That​

That pushes jobs overseas. Not one policy brought jobs home. As you can see no change in the growth rates from Obama to Trump of manufacturing jobs US based.

This is wage growth in the US. Trump had no impact on it.

And it’s more ridiculous claim over longer periods of time.

The reason Democrats don’t switch there views on here is that righties are all fake talking points. Not one thing you typed in your OP was a meaningful argument. Heck the data actually supports the opposite of what you say.

Republicans claim to be fiscal conservatives but run larger deficits than Democrats. They are not for less spending. They are for spending money on their preferred recipients.

Republicans have zero family values argument. It is a party of debauchery. They are only against abortion for others and get abortions at will themselves.

Republicans have zero patriotism. They supported Trumps attempt to physically claim the presidency. They don’t support improving our infrastructure. They oppose veterans burn pit victim aid. I could go on and on. The Republican Party is a long list of lies.

 

[frigidweirdo]

evident on the USMB as a daily exercise Frigid one

i suppose we all have some level of denial mechanisms in us....

~S~

Yeah, I've noticed. Even the OP isn't willing to talk about it.

 

[Kondor3]

Demanding an accurate vote count is not equivalent to overthrowing the government, dumbass leftard

Assaulting the Congress of the United States AFTER the several States had certified the results is NOT 'demanding an accurate count'.

It is vile traitorous behavior in support of an Orange Comb-Over Con-Man who bull$hitted you gullible sheeple into believing what even HE knew to be a lie.

Your tired overworked and long-since-discredited argument here is, itself, a Lie... and, like Rump's Big Lie itself, or Jay's Potato Chips, you can't eat just one.

Sux to be on the wrong side of Right-and-Wrong, and to be on the wrong side of History on this one, doesn't it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Only when dealing with audiences and opposites capable of delving beyond the superficial.

Insofar as the Neanderthal trailer-trash traitors of January 6, 2021 are concerned, and those lying sacks-of-$hit who make excuses for them, well...

Who ever made excuses for them? Nobody that I read here, that's for sure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I do think attempting to overthrow the government is the unforgivable sin, at least politically.

Nobody attempted to overthrow any government. More Communist propaganda.

 

[citygator]

I do think attempting to overthrow the government is the unforgivable sin, at least politically.

The vast majority of Republicans in Congress on 1-6-21 voted in favor of the end of our democracy and the installation of Donald Trump as an unelected leader of our country, and they did this EVEN AFTER THE VIOLENT COUP ATTEMPT. In other words, they knowingly and purposely voted in favor of, what can only be described as fascism.

Like all of us, they knew that Biden won fairly and squarely, and because of that, they knew that the act of putting Trump in office was clearly a fascist move, and that is indisputable, since we all saw that with our own eyes. That also means that those in Congress who voted for Trump as our unelected leader are clearly by definition fascists.

The vast majority of Republicans running in both houses of Congress a couple of months ago, along with the vast majority of Republicans running in statewide offices and state legislatures, openly supported the coup, the end of democracy in America, and the installation of Trump as our unelected leader, even though the people clearly rejected his candidacy.

Those are indisputable facts, so given that reality, how can republicans not repudiate the party as a whole for this unforgivable act?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Your big problem with all of that is...

Trump erased any and all good that he did on January 6, 2021...

He and his minions (with his knowledge) summoned, incited and aimed a riotous mob to move against the United States Congress on that day...

That is Mortal Sin and cannot and will not be forgiven...

It is akin to Benedict Arnold conspiring to turn West Point over to the King's forces...

Fortunately, both acts of treachery failed... the one in 1780... and the one on January 6, 2021...

Benedict Arnold was not given a Second Chance...

Trump will not be given a Second Chance either...

There is no negotiation possible on this particular point...

Which is a damned shame, actually, because much of the Trump Agenda (so-called) was actually good for America...

But it came at too high a price... namely, the man himself, with his immense catalog of flaws...

The agenda was a case of Right Message, Wrong Messenger...

Find another Messenger and you'll find a great many more Americans joining the old Trump Base in voting-out the Illegals-loving Democrats...

Fail to change Standard Bearers and you will lose again in 2024...

The math inherent in this is inescapable and rock-solid... you cannot win without Independents and Reagan Democrats... and they will not vote for Trump...

Snap out of it... wake up... make the change, while there is still time.

Blah blah blah fucking blah! Thanks for clearly demonstrating exactly what YOUR J/6 Reichstag Fire was all about, "erasing" everything GOOD that Trump accomplished.
Fuck off carrion crow!

 

[Kondor3]

Who ever made excuses for them? Nobody that I read here, that's for sure.

In my mind's eye, every time I hear someone justify the assault on Congress by citing false claims of election-stealing, that is "making excuses for them".

Your mileage may (and seemingly does) vary.

 

[Kondor3]

Blah blah blah fucking blah! Thanks for clearly demonstrating exactly what YOUR J/6 Reichstag Fire was all about, "erasing" everything GOOD that Trump accomplished.
Fuck off carrion crow!

Thank you for your feedback...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In my mind's eye, every time I hear someone justify the assault on Congress by citing false claims of election-stealing, that is "making excuses for them".

Your mileage may (and seemingly does) vary.

It has nothing to do with mileage, it has to do with the difference between truth and lies. I speak the truth, you promote lies. One saying they also believe the election was stolen is not supporting the riot. It's Communist propaganda.

 

[Indeependent]

There was an accurate vote count. Present evidence there wasn't.

Present evidence there was.
Liberals always ask to prove a negative.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

"The Truth". There's that word again.

Both far ends of the spectrum just love tossing that word around, politicizing it, as if they own it.

What is your personal definition of "The Truth"?

Sure, fair question.

I'll give you a classic example:

When the media says Trump promoted a violent insurrection on the capital, but the video footage clearly shows him saying that the crowd should march "peacefully and patriotically".

Hhhmmm. One of those things is not like the other.

Of course, I don't need to watch the video again (though I've seen it multiple times), I saw the original speech live.

Most Lefties have only seen the edited version released by the treacherous "JAN 6th COMMITEE".

Though I will concede the concept of truth can be nebulous, in this case I'd say it is pretty clear cut. An that has been a consistent theme of the Trump era - as it has driven our elites into desperate madness.

 

[BothWings]

Nah, they're no better.

They're worse because they are the globalists' undercover branch. Remember, Father Bush was head.of the CIA. He would have been president early if Reagan had died from the assassination attempt. What does that imply? He also was the first to coin the term "New World Order" gleefully in a public speech or interview....and every other president since him did the same....except Donald Trump.