A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[amrchaos]

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

I agree

But what about if the act is considered immoral. Rights can still be protected under such a condition.

You're contradicting yourself in your last post you said

The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality

Since according to you morals is not the issue.

No--I am argueing about whether a right should be protected or not if the act is considered immoral.

I said morality does not enter in determining whether or not a right should be protected.
The issue is a legal matter, not a moral matter.

Please demonstrate the contradiction you see, don't just state there is one.

 

[amrchaos]

A right is protected whether or not the right is immoral. The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality.

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

Just because something is illegal now, doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Marijuana is one example. If you research why marijuana was originally criminalized, you will find that three of the primary drivers behind this (in the 1930's I believe) was (1) racism, (2) deception, and (3) personal gain. So just because Marijuana is illegal now, do you think it should remain illegal?

How about Porn.

Porn can be recorded sex acts between people that may or may not be married. In many cases they are not. Thus we have fornication which is considered a sin and hence immoral.

Yet Porn, although regulated, is allowed to be created, distributed and owned by Americans. You have a right to own property. Even if the ownership of said property is both immoral and promotes immorality.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A right is protected whether or not the right is immoral. The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality.

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

Just because something is illegal now, doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Marijuana is one example. If you research why marijuana was originally criminalized, you will find that three of the primary drivers behind this (in the 1930's I believe) was (1) racism, (2) deception, and (3) personal gain. So just because Marijuana is illegal now, do you think it should remain illegal?

Again there is no protection for illegal acts You must make it legal for it to be protected.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

Just because something is illegal now, doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Marijuana is one example. If you research why marijuana was originally criminalized, you will find that three of the primary drivers behind this (in the 1930's I believe) was (1) racism, (2) deception, and (3) personal gain. So just because Marijuana is illegal now, do you think it should remain illegal?

How about Porn.

Porn can be recorded sex acts between people that may or may not be married. In many cases they are not. Thus we have fornication which is considered a sin and hence immoral.

Yet Porn, although regulated, is allowed to be created, distributed and owned by Americans. You have a right to own property. Even if the ownership of said property is both immoral and promotes immorality.

What if that property is stolen even though you transaction was legal to do but the person who sold it too you was selling something that was stolen such as a pawn shop buy.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A right is protected whether or not the right is immoral. The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality.

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

Just because something is illegal now, doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Marijuana is one example. If you research why marijuana was originally criminalized, you will find that three of the primary drivers behind this (in the 1930's I believe) was (1) racism, (2) deception, and (3) personal gain. So just because Marijuana is illegal now, do you think it should remain illegal?

Legalize it then we can talk not until then.

 

[WinterBorn]

But a persons right should not be protected if immoral.

A right is protected whether or not the right is immoral. The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality.

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

What acts are illegal?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A right is protected whether or not the right is immoral. The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality.

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

What acts are illegal?

Sodomy

 

[WinterBorn]

No time since I have been here have I ever claimed to be a Christian.

I cannot support someones right that is abnormal and illegal can you support someones right to be a Prostitution?

Note - I think I said "big" in this post, but meant to direct at the originator, Youwerecreated. Just was a typo, sorry for the confusion.

If prostitution is legalized, you won't be forced to support it or take part in it in any way. I promise.

Also, do you consider yourself a Christian - by the way - if I might ask?


.

A Christian will never support anything that is a conflict with pleasing God. You can't serve two masters.

God to a Christian is bigger then our constitution and comes first even when new laws are made. If laws are made by man that conflict with Gods law which law should the Christian support ?

I am a full supporter of our constitution and our laws but there is a limit to that support,the limit is when they conflict with Gods law.

Ok I guess that made my views clear enough.

That is absolute nonsense.

I support a clear separation of church and state. And I am a Christian.

There is a huge difference between civil law and God's law. Civil law is forced on us by society. God's law is followed voluntarily in order to please God and to observe our faith.

Forcing someone to follow God's law is not what God intended. He wants people to come to him of their own volition, not in shackles.

 

[amrchaos]

Just because something is illegal now, doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Marijuana is one example. If you research why marijuana was originally criminalized, you will find that three of the primary drivers behind this (in the 1930's I believe) was (1) racism, (2) deception, and (3) personal gain. So just because Marijuana is illegal now, do you think it should remain illegal?

How about Porn.

Porn can be recorded sex acts between people that may or may not be married. In many cases they are not. Thus we have fornication which is considered a sin and hence immoral.

Yet Porn, although regulated, is allowed to be created, distributed and owned by Americans. You have a right to own property. Even if the ownership of said property is both immoral and promotes immorality.

What if that property is stolen even though you transaction was legal to do but the person who sold it too you was selling something that was stolen such as a pawn shop buy.

Then the issue is dealing with theft, which is both illegal and immoral.
The right to own property( a right which could promote immorality, but not in all cases) does not supercede a crime such as theft(illegal and immoral)


The right to own Porn(a right that is immoral) is not considered a crime, if it is of and obtained through the proper channels..


There is a difference. but in all cases, the question of legality comes up as to determining if a person has right or not. The question of morality is not even a pertinent issue in the matter .

 

[WinterBorn]

The is no protection of rights when the acts are illegal.

What acts are illegal?

Sodomy

Sodomy is not illegal.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[WinterBorn]

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I thought you were discussing the law. Sodomy is not illegal.

 

[amrchaos]

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I thought you were discussing the law. Sodomy is not illegal.

In some states, you can be persecuted if it is discovered that you practiced sodomy with someone else.

In Georgia, for instance, you can be tried and sentenced. Also, even if your girlfriend ask you to practice sodomy on her, that is not considered a defense.

Basically, sodomy is one those "Angry Girlfriend" laws that get abused by women.

It is also used in child molestation cases, but more predominately by angry girlfriends.

edit: I don't think it should be illegal if both partners agreed to practice it. Is not such a situation then leads an issue of consenting adults dealing with an adult situation and therefore outside the jurisdiction of the law?

 

[WinterBorn]

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I thought you were discussing the law. Sodomy is not illegal.

In some states, you can be persecuted if it is discovered that you practiced sodomy with someone else.

In Georgia, for instance, you can be tried and sentenced. Also, even if your girlfriend ask you to practice sodomy on her, that is not considered a defense.

Basically, sodomy is one those "Angry Girlfriend" laws that get abused by women.

It is also used in child molestation cases, but more predominately by angry girlfriends.

edit: I don't think it should be illegal if both partners agreed to practice it. Is not such a situation then leads an issue of consenting adults dealing with an adult situation and therefore outside the jurisdiction of the law?

The SCOTUS struck down anti-sodomy laws in Lawrence v. Texas in 2003. It invalidated the Texas law and the sodomy laws in 13 other states.

While there may be laws still on the books, they are unenforceable.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What acts are illegal?

Sodomy

Sodomy is not illegal.

United States Sodomy Laws

 

[koshergrl]

Note - I think I said "big" in this post, but meant to direct at the originator, Youwerecreated. Just was a typo, sorry for the confusion.

If prostitution is legalized, you won't be forced to support it or take part in it in any way. I promise.

Also, do you consider yourself a Christian - by the way - if I might ask?


.

A Christian will never support anything that is a conflict with pleasing God. You can't serve two masters.

God to a Christian is bigger then our constitution and comes first even when new laws are made. If laws are made by man that conflict with Gods law which law should the Christian support ?

I am a full supporter of our constitution and our laws but there is a limit to that support,the limit is when they conflict with Gods law.

Ok I guess that made my views clear enough.

That is absolute nonsense.

I support a clear separation of church and state. And I am a Christian.

There is a huge difference between civil law and God's law. Civil law is forced on us by society. God's law is followed voluntarily in order to please God and to observe our faith.

Forcing someone to follow God's law is not what God intended. He wants people to come to him of their own volition, not in shackles.

Did you share how refusing to allow the homosexual lobby to FORCE us to accept a new definition for "marriage" and FORCING us to support tax breaks we provide to traditional families be given to homosexual couples who refuse to participate in the construct for which those tax breaks were created...means we are FORCING our religion upon you?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

§ 14-177. Crime against nature. (from North Carolina's Criminal Code)

North Carolina's Sodomy Law

 

[WinterBorn]

Sodomy

Sodomy is not illegal.

United States Sodomy Laws

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

http://www.4lawschool.com/conlaw/lt.shtml

"Individuals are entitled to constitutional protection, under the DP Cl, in their personal lives for sexual privacy. States cannot minimize or control their destiny by criminalizing private sexual conduct."

 

[koshergrl]

I agree

But what about if the act is considered immoral. Rights can still be protected under such a condition.

You're contradicting yourself in your last post you said

The question of whether or not a right should be protected is a question of legality, not morality

Since according to you morals is not the issue.

No--I am argueing about whether a right should be protected or not if the act is considered immoral.

I said morality does not enter in determining whether or not a right should be protected.
The issue is a legal matter, not a moral matter.

Please demonstrate the contradiction you see, don't just state there is one.

You are making the same tired argument that all progressives make...that if we want to support behavior that we know is beneficial to our society, and if that means we withhold that support from a certain group who refuses to participate in that behavior, and the primary behavior of that group HAPPENS to be criticized in the bible, then you assert that is a violation of the (pretend) "state/church" separation.

Bullshit. Just because a behavior that has been proven to have a negative impact upon society is rejected by society has also been rejected by God doesn't mean that the church is "forcing" morality upon you, and thereby "violating" separation of church and state.

That's just what you yahoos like to whine about, so you don't have to deal with the fact that when a society accepts perversion as a matter of course, and sexual promiscuity and depravation becomes the norm, children suffer, people die, disease runs rampant, and eventually (and it doesn't take long....we're 50 years in and we're on the brink now) the society itself collapses.

 

[koshergrl]

Sodomy is not illegal.

United States Sodomy Laws

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.