A Reasonable Solution To The Gay Marriage Debate

[WinterBorn]

A Christian will never support anything that is a conflict with pleasing God. You can't serve two masters.

God to a Christian is bigger then our constitution and comes first even when new laws are made. If laws are made by man that conflict with Gods law which law should the Christian support ?

I am a full supporter of our constitution and our laws but there is a limit to that support,the limit is when they conflict with Gods law.

Ok I guess that made my views clear enough.

That is absolute nonsense.

I support a clear separation of church and state. And I am a Christian.

There is a huge difference between civil law and God's law. Civil law is forced on us by society. God's law is followed voluntarily in order to please God and to observe our faith.

Forcing someone to follow God's law is not what God intended. He wants people to come to him of their own volition, not in shackles.

Did you share how refusing to allow the homosexual lobby to FORCE us to accept a new definition for "marriage" and FORCING us to support tax breaks we provide to traditional families be given to homosexual couples who refuse to participate in the construct for which those tax breaks were created...means we are FORCING our religion upon you?

I believe I was explaining the difference between civil law and God's law.

 

[WinterBorn]

United States Sodomy Laws

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

I was responding to a claim that sodomy is illegal. My comments are correct in that.

No one is forcing any morality on you. You are welcome to continue to dislike and disapprove of homosexuality. But the gov't cannot do the same thing unless there is a clear reason for it.

And the advantages that society gains from straight marriage will also be gained by gay marriages.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

United States Sodomy Laws

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

Agree first it was what happens in the bedroom stay's in the bedroom now we are here.

 

[koshergrl]

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

I was responding to a claim that sodomy is illegal. My comments are correct in that.

No one is forcing any morality on you. You are welcome to continue to dislike and disapprove of homosexuality. But the gov't cannot do the same thing unless there is a clear reason for it.

And the advantages that society gains from straight marriage will also be gained by gay marriages.

Bullshit..and...bullshit.

 

[KevinWestern]

United States Sodomy Laws

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

Ah, gotcha. So you’re saying you’re against gays expressing themselves how they wish in a free society? Would you rather we use government force to quiet them all?

I’m sorry if you can’t stand to see a gay person “walking down mainstreet”, or taking their children to a playground, but you’re just going to have to deal with it Kosher – this is America.

One of the side effects you get from living in a free country is that you’re going to see and hear some things you don’t necessarily agree with. It just comes with the territory. Not everyone thinks just like you do…

 

[WinterBorn]

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

Agree first it was what happens in the bedroom stay's in the bedroom now we are here.

What are you trying to say? That what happens in the bedroom is anyone else's business??

 

[WinterBorn]

that shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in lawrence v. Texas, the scotus shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

ah, gotcha. So you’re saying you’re against gays expressing themselves how they wish in a free society? Would you rather we use government force to quiet them all?

I’m sorry if you can’t stand to see a gay person “walking down mainstreet”, or taking their children to a playground, but you’re just going to have to deal with it kosher – this is america.

One of the side effects you get from living in a free country is that you’re going to see and hear some things you don’t necessarily agree with. It just comes with the territory. Not everyone thinks just like you do…

this!

 

[WinterBorn]

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

I was responding to a claim that sodomy is illegal. My comments are correct in that.

No one is forcing any morality on you. You are welcome to continue to dislike and disapprove of homosexuality. But the gov't cannot do the same thing unless there is a clear reason for it.

And the advantages that society gains from straight marriage will also be gained by gay marriages.

Bullshit..and...bullshit.

Oh?? What advantages does marriage give to society that gay marriage will not?

 

[koshergrl]

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

Ah, gotcha. So you’re saying you’re against gays expressing themselves how they wish in a free society? Would you rather we use government force to quiet them all?

I’m sorry if you can’t stand to see a gay person “walking down mainstreet”, or taking their children to a playground, but you’re just going to have to deal with it Kosher – this is America.

One of the side effects you get from living in a free country is that you’re going to see and hear some things you don’t necessarily agree with. It just comes with the territory. Not everyone thinks just like you do…

No, I'm saying you're a hypocrite. You think that gays should be able to force their morals upon us...and we can't stop them...

But we can't force our morality upon anyone else.

The thing is...you use the term "force" incorrectly. You claim it is "forcing" homosexuals to submit to a morality they don't approve of if we don't call them "married" when they refuse to get married.

So..if they make the choice not to get married to a member of the opposite sex, we are "forcing" them to submit to our "Christian" morality?

Really? Where's the force?

 

[amrchaos]

I thought you were discussing the law. Sodomy is not illegal.

In some states, you can be persecuted if it is discovered that you practiced sodomy with someone else.

In Georgia, for instance, you can be tried and sentenced. Also, even if your girlfriend ask you to practice sodomy on her, that is not considered a defense.

Basically, sodomy is one those "Angry Girlfriend" laws that get abused by women.

It is also used in child molestation cases, but more predominately by angry girlfriends.

edit: I don't think it should be illegal if both partners agreed to practice it. Is not such a situation then leads an issue of consenting adults dealing with an adult situation and therefore outside the jurisdiction of the law?

The SCOTUS struck down anti-sodomy laws in Lawrence v. Texas in 2003. It invalidated the Texas law and the sodomy laws in 13 other states.

While there may be laws still on the books, they are unenforceable.

Did not know about that--In fact, I am recollecting events from the 90s so I guess I am out of the times dealing with such laws.

 

[amrchaos]

You're contradicting yourself in your last post you said


Since according to you morals is not the issue.

No--I am argueing about whether a right should be protected or not if the act is considered immoral.

I said morality does not enter in determining whether or not a right should be protected.
The issue is a legal matter, not a moral matter.

Please demonstrate the contradiction you see, don't just state there is one.

You are making the same tired argument that all progressives make...that if we want to support behavior that we know is beneficial to our society, and if that means we withhold that support from a certain group who refuses to participate in that behavior, and the primary behavior of that group HAPPENS to be criticized in the bible, then you assert that is a violation of the (pretend) "state/church" separation.

Bullshit. Just because a behavior that has been proven to have a negative impact upon society is rejected by society has also been rejected by God doesn't mean that the church is "forcing" morality upon you, and thereby "violating" separation of church and state.

That's just what you yahoos like to whine about, so you don't have to deal with the fact that when a society accepts perversion as a matter of course, and sexual promiscuity and depravation becomes the norm, children suffer, people die, disease runs rampant, and eventually (and it doesn't take long....we're 50 years in and we're on the brink now) the society itself collapses.

I guess you missed the post about porn.

Tell us Kosher girl--do you like porn? Is it immoral? Then why is it legal?

RE-EDIT
By the way, I did not make that argument. Where in the hell did I write such an argument?

You are making crap up, KG. But then, you do believe there is only one morality--the morality espoused by your church!

Even in the myriad denominations of christianity, there are slight deviations in what is considered moral. In some cases, that is why some churches split from other churches. If there was only one well understood and set morality that all christians agreed upon, then there would not be a need for denominations.

 

[koshergrl]

What the HELL are you talking about?

This is what I hate about extremists. They can't confine themselves to the topic, because if they did, they would be exposed as the wackos they are.

So they jump all over the place, and make shit up...what they don't realize is they're STILL exposing themselves as wackos.

 

[amrchaos]

What the HELL are you talking about?

This is what I hate about extremists. They can't confine themselves to the topic, because if they did, they would be exposed as the wackos they are.

So they jump all over the place, and make shit up...what they don't realize is they're STILL exposing themselves as wackos.

Are we talking about the topic of the thread(solutions to the gay marriage debate), the topic I was first referencing to (the difference between morality and legality in terms of rights and law), the topic you created(your opinion of "liberal/progressive depiction of seperation of church and state") or the new topic I breached because you accused me of holding a viewpoint that I did not espouse(The differing definition of morality held by Christians and its effects on Christianity)

So far, there are 4 topics, two of which is creditted to your postings.


By the way, if you return to topic 2, then there is no problem.

But if you wish to continue with topic 3 and 4 then I feel compelled to create 5, 6, 7 etc because you have no compunction against creating new topics despite complaining that you do.

 

[koshergrl]

Did I confuse you with KW?

 

[koshergrl]

Porn is immoral. I don't know why it's legal. If you had a point, I missed it.

 

[amrchaos]

Did I confuse you with KW?

Actually, KW, Winterborn and I are generally on the issue of immorality and the law.

So, we are back to topic 2? OK--righty O!

So, do you think that which is considered immoral is illegal?
Or do you think what is considered immoral should be illegal?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That shows a list updated in 1998. In 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas, the SCOTUS shot down sodomy laws. While they may be on the books the have been ruled unconstitutional and, thereby, unenforceable.

What people do in their bedroom is no one's business but their own.

Homosexuals want to take it out of the bedroom, into the churches, down mainstreet, into the office, on the playground, and broadcast it on television.

Preach to your own lobby and stop trying to force your morality upon a majority who doesn't want it, and who wants to continue to recognize and support the healthy construct upon which our society is built. If gays want to be married, they can find a person of the opposite sex and marry them. Nobody gives a shit what they do in their bedrooms. But don't force us to pretend families headed by homosexual couples are the most successful construct for raising children. Because that's hogwash.

Ah, gotcha. So you’re saying you’re against gays expressing themselves how they wish in a free society? Would you rather we use government force to quiet them all?

I’m sorry if you can’t stand to see a gay person “walking down mainstreet”, or taking their children to a playground, but you’re just going to have to deal with it Kosher – this is America.

One of the side effects you get from living in a free country is that you’re going to see and hear some things you don’t necessarily agree with. It just comes with the territory. Not everyone thinks just like you do…

Serial killers want to express themselves that's why they are serial killers. Do we allow them to express themselves?

 

[koshergrl]

No, I know that which is considered immoral isn't illegal.

And no, I don't think that which is considered immoral should be illegal, just because it's immoral.

I will wait a little longer to see if you start making sense. I think perhaps you think you are an intellectual acrobat. But as is usually the case with posters like that, you're just dishonest.

 

[koshergrl]

PS..I'm still waiting for whichever imbecile made the claim that gay marriage has the exact same strengths as hetero marriages to back up that claim,

and I'm still waiting for ac to make his point about immorality et al. So far he's just asking ridiculous questions that he thinks he knows the answers to, but making no point at all.

 

[amrchaos]

No, I know that which is considered immoral isn't illegal.

And no, I don't think that which is considered immoral should be illegal, just because it's immoral.

I will wait a little longer to see if you start making sense. I think perhaps you think you are an intellectual acrobat. But as is usually the case with posters like that, you're just dishonest.

Then why do you think gay marriage should be illegal?