Abortion: Why Men Don't Get A Say

[Madeline]

No i don't think he hates, he is pro life. He is entitled to his opinion.

.... He wants men to have the power to decide whether the pregnancy proceeds, does he not?

No, he does not. That is something the voices in your head told you to type. That is YOUR strawman.

God, you are dense.

Feel better? It had been several hours since you last insulted me.

So good of you to bump this thread merely to display your frustrated and misplaced rage, Si. We all have a much more refined POV thankies to your input.

Not.

 

[Ravi]

You need to take into account personal responsibility. The government is not the father or mother of the baby. I am not saying unwanted babies would cease to exist. I think the numbers would decrease if mothers knew before hand there would be no governmental aid and it was up to she and the father alone to support the baby.

I don't know it that would make the men or women more responsible in terms of contraception, but i do believe it would make women think twice before carrying a baby to term.

As long as we, as a society, don't give underage children total equal rights...we are responsible for them.

I agree, the parents are responsible for their children.

Not really. We are as a society. We take equal rights away from children so we are responsible to them until we grant them equal rights. Parents don't have the option of granting their children equal rights.

 

[Madeline]

As long as we, as a society, don't give underage children total equal rights...we are responsible for them.

I agree, the parents are responsible for their children.

Not really. We are as a society. We take equal rights away from children so we are responsible to them until we grant them equal rights. Parents don't have the option of granting their children equal rights.

Ravi, I like kids too but this is extremist. Little ones cannot fend for themselves; who should make decisions for them, if not their parents?

 

[syrenn]

As long as we, as a society, don't give underage children total equal rights...we are responsible for them.

I agree, the parents are responsible for their children.

Not really. We are as a society. We take equal rights away from children so we are responsible to them until we grant them equal rights. Parents don't have the option of granting their children equal rights.

So what are you saying ravi? That the government has the right to tell a woman she has to have an abortion or must carry a child?

What i am saying about the role of government as it pertains to children is that they should NOT have to pay for parents choices.

 

[Ravi]

I agree, the parents are responsible for their children.

Not really. We are as a society. We take equal rights away from children so we are responsible to them until we grant them equal rights. Parents don't have the option of granting their children equal rights.

So what are you saying ravi? That the government has the right to tell a woman she has to have an abortion or must carry a child?

What i am saying about the role of government as it pertains to children is that they should NOT have to pay for parents choices.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I am simply saying that if you don't grant children full civil rights as a society, then you are responsible for them, as a society. How the society expresses that responsibility is debatable.

 

[Madeline]

I agree, the parents are responsible for their children.

Not really. We are as a society. We take equal rights away from children so we are responsible to them until we grant them equal rights. Parents don't have the option of granting their children equal rights.

So what are you saying ravi? That the government has the right to tell a woman she has to have an abortion or must carry a child?

What i am saying about the role of government as it pertains to children is that they should NOT have to pay for parents choices.

Pay now or pay later. Abused and neglected children grow into violent and criminal adults, syrenn. Assuming compassion alone does not persuade you.

 

[syrenn]

Not really. We are as a society. We take equal rights away from children so we are responsible to them until we grant them equal rights. Parents don't have the option of granting their children equal rights.

So what are you saying ravi? That the government has the right to tell a woman she has to have an abortion or must carry a child?

What i am saying about the role of government as it pertains to children is that they should NOT have to pay for parents choices.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I am simply saying that if you don't grant children full civil rights as a society, then you are responsible for them, as a society. How the society expresses that responsibility is debatable.

Parents are responsible for their children until the age of consent. That is what children have for civil rights. So long as parents are not breaking any laws pertaining to their children the government has no say in what parents do with their children. And as far as i am concerned that is as it should be.

 

[JBeukema]

Same goes for you whining men, feel free to jack off the rest of your lives or drool all over a screen to some pics.

If men don't want to pay for a child, keep your sperm to your selves. If women don't want to pay for a baby abort it. Simple.

Let's apply your standards equally: if women don't want to have babies, they need to keep their legs shut. No abortions, no Plan B. Own up and carry the baby. Oh wait, holding you to your own standards would be sexist and misogynistic...

Now where do i ever say men cant have sex? Where do i say women cant have sex? I say men should keep their sperm to themselves. You know inside a condom...or better yet having a vasectomy. I also say that women need to use birth control as well.

If you are going to apply my standards equally, then apply them equally. Don't misrepresent what i am saying.

IF an accident happens then the only one to make the decisions of what happens to that woman's body...is that woman.

Her choice, her responsibility...

 

[JBeukema]

Same goes for you whining men, feel free to jack off the rest of your lives or drool all over a screen to some pics.

If men don't want to pay for a child, keep your sperm to your selves. If women don't want to pay for a baby abort it. Simple.

Let's apply your standards equally: if women don't want to have babies, they need to keep their legs shut. No abortions, no Plan B. Own up and carry the baby. Oh wait, holding you to your own standards would be sexist and misogynistic...

I dun get why depriving women of elective medical care is somehow "morally superior"?

Elective medical care?

What are the voices in your head saying now?

 

[syrenn]

Let's apply your standards equally: if women don't want to have babies, they need to keep their legs shut. No abortions, no Plan B. Own up and carry the baby. Oh wait, holding you to your own standards would be sexist and misogynistic...

Now where do i ever say men cant have sex? Where do i say women cant have sex? I say men should keep their sperm to themselves. You know inside a condom...or better yet having a vasectomy. I also say that women need to use birth control as well.

If you are going to apply my standards equally, then apply them equally. Don't misrepresent what i am saying.

IF an accident happens then the only one to make the decisions of what happens to that woman's body...is that woman.

Her choice, her responsibility...

Her choice and responsibility to carry a term pregnancy or not, THEIR responsibility for any baby that may be produced by a live birth.

 

[JBeukema]

I dun get why depriving women of elective medical care is somehow "morally superior"?

Because they have taken it upon themselves to make a choice that involved 2 people..erg..I mean 3

Well, first of all, if you feel that-a-way and others like myself do not, why should your POV dictate my conduct? Why is it not enough that your POV dictates your conduct?

I'm sure Ricardo Ramirez agrees with that argument...

And lastly, I just cannot understand how it is you do not see that investing the zygote with the status of "person" is a value judgment and not a medical fact?

So true denying its personhood...

 

[JBeukema]

I am pro choice where no one can tell a woman what to do with her body.

A child is not your body. That tired rhetoric won't fly here.

Precisely. It is not part of any woman's body and she has the right to remove it. Place it on the table so that it may live on its own.

Clearly, you know nothing about biology or human embryonic development.

 

[JBeukema]

Which is why i support Cesarean Section for the cells some call life. If it is life sit it on a table and let it have its life.

Right... same as if I tie an anchor to your leg and throw you in the ocean....

 

[JBeukema]

In your opinion. In my opinion it is not a woman's responsibility to carry any child unless she wishes to do so.

Which is why i support Cesarean Section for the cells some call life. If it is life sit it on a table and let it have its life.

Hate, hate, hate JB. U-g-l-y.

No i don't think he hates, he is pro life. He is entitled to his opinion.

You're an idiot.

My position on abortion is well-documented in this thread and others. I've linked to those threads throughout this discussion.

I've repeatedly cited abortion as one of a woman's many options.

 

[JBeukema]

Hate, hate, hate JB. U-g-l-y.

No i don't think he hates, he is pro life. He is entitled to his opinion.

I see real anger in men who posit the average woman with an unwanted pregnancy as a slut who pulled a train for cash.

But hey, I'm sensitive that-a-way.

BTW, I fail to see how JB qualifies as "pro life". He wants men to have the power to decide whether the pregnancy proceeds, does he not?

Only in your head

 

[syrenn]

A child is not your body. That tired rhetoric won't fly here.

Precisely. It is not part of any woman's body and she has the right to remove it. Place it on the table so that it may live on its own.

Clearly, you know nothing about biology or human embryonic development.

Clearly i do. You were the one who said that a child is not your body.

 

[JBeukema]

Now where do i ever say men cant have sex? Where do i say women cant have sex? I say men should keep their sperm to themselves. You know inside a condom...or better yet having a vasectomy. I also say that women need to use birth control as well.

If you are going to apply my standards equally, then apply them equally. Don't misrepresent what i am saying.

IF an accident happens then the only one to make the decisions of what happens to that woman's body...is that woman.

Her choice, her responsibility...

Her choice and responsibility to carry a term pregnancy or not, THEIR responsibility for any baby that may be produced by a live birth.

If she decides to have a child alone outside a committed relationship, that's on her. Her choice, her life decision, her responsibility.

Time to be a big girl. You're not a helpless little creature in need of a big strong man to take care of you and tell you what to do, are you? Then be a big girl and be responsible for your own actions and decisions. Stop playing the helpless little female card. If you can decide to havbe a baby alone, you can rear and provide for it alone. If a man says he'll be there and then leaves, you've a case to demand he make good on his promise to be involved. If it's clear form the beginning that he has no intention of being around and you choose to have a child anyway, that's on you.

 

[JBeukema]

Precisely. It is not part of any woman's body and she has the right to remove it. Place it on the table so that it may live on its own.

Clearly, you know nothing about biology or human embryonic development.

Clearly i do. You were the one who said that a child is not your body.

Yes. I stated simple biological fact.

 

[syrenn]

Hate, hate, hate JB. U-g-l-y.

No i don't think he hates, he is pro life. He is entitled to his opinion.

You're an idiot.

My position on abortion is well-documented in this thread and others. I've linked to those threads throughout this discussion.

I've repeatedly cited abortion as one of a woman's many options.

No more so then you are JB.

Then what is your point then? Just pissed off that men have to pay up once their baby is produced?

 

[syrenn]

Clearly, you know nothing about biology or human embryonic development.

Clearly i do. You were the one who said that a child is not your body.

Yes. I stated simple biological fact.

And i stated fact as well. If it is not part of the women body she has every right to have it removed as it is not part of her body and place it on the table. If it is part of her body, again she has every right to do with her body as she wishes.