Abortion

[5stringJeff]

A woman not-need to have sex if she isn't in the position to afford financial and/or other issues involved with carrying a baby. That policy would likely prevent, in my guess, 95% of abortions.

 

[shadrack]

A woman not-need to have sex if she isn't in the position to afford financial and/or other issues involved with carrying a baby.

And a man not-need to breath if he may hyperventilate.

 

[5stringJeff]

And a man not-need to breath if he may hyperventilate.

There's a big difference. Sex is not a necessary function. You won't die without sex (though some people are convinced they will). You will die without breathing.

Nice try though.

 

[shadrack]

Then work two jobs. Or three. (shrug). See? easy. Degrading? Like it builds esteem to be on welfare?



...which is part of the problem....



It's a choice. Like being Gay. Or a democrat. Poor is a state of mind or laziness in 90% (my figure) of the cases. Likely more than 90%.




How so? I know people who have been in this country less than 10 years who are now making twice the money I do as a natural born citizen. Hard work - it's what too many american's simply can't grasp.

Lazy, state of mind, a choice??

I might agree that suppressing the creation of a corrupt and immoral society is achieved by encouraging individual development. But empirical data suggests there will be higher corruption levels within a society when an individual's orientation is based on survival values as opposed to self-expression values. The impoverished face the challenge to come up with creative solutions to their situations when there is no time for self-expression while their minds are consumed with survival. In other words, your argument against welfare is actually the argument for welfare.

Right now in the richest nation in the world (80 times richer than the poorest nation in the world) there are 39 million Americans living within a culture of poverty. There are 20 million children being raised, not on self-expressive values, but are being oriented by a "survival of the fittest" culture (which you support) built on the "it's your fault you're poor" principle. But the sad reality is quite different.....in the U.S. and all across the world.

Despicable and immoral by any standard except by the corrupt Christian leadership of the right wing of the Republican party.

 

[YoungChristian]

On the issue of who is to raise the new children that aren't aborted, there is one obvious answer. There are literally thousands upon thousands of married couples that wish to adopt a newborn baby and are on a waiting list. If the woman that has the baby chooses to keep it as a single mother, the government should offer incentives to her. These incentives should provide that if the woman can hold a steady job, she should be rewarded with kind of health insurance for her kid. If a single mother can prove that she is really trying -- and not just trying to get fat off the government's milk -- she should be rewarded.

 

[shadrack]

There's a big difference. Sex is not a necessary function. You won't die without sex (though some people are convinced they will). You will die without breathing.

Nice try though.

Okay then, how bout walk.

A man not-need (whatever that means) walk if he may fall. He can crawl everywhere he goes.

 

[dmp]

Okay then, how bout walk.

A man not-need (whatever that means) walk if he may fall. He can crawl everywhere he goes.

Translation: I cannot argue against your point, so I will attempt to divert the conversation onto fluff - something SLIGHTLY related, but completely Off Topic.

 

[5stringJeff]

Okay then, how bout walk.

A man not-need (whatever that means) walk if he may fall. He can crawl everywhere he goes.

Are you seriously comparing sex to walking? Or are you just in denial that your argument holds no water?

 

[shadrack]

Are you seriously comparing sex to walking? Or are you just in denial that your argument holds no water?

Both are physical functions urged to be accomplished (although at different stages of life) by a physiological drive. A one year old toddler cannot choose to not walk just as a person cannot choose to not have sex (at some point in their life).

If a person doesn't have sex, then they masturbate. Which is a nearly equally disturbing thought to many Christians providing them with a lifetime of guilt and remorse.

 

[Bonnie]

Both are physical functions urged to be accomplished (although at different stages of life) by a physiological drive. A one year old toddler cannot choose to not walk just as a person cannot choose to not have sex (at some point in their life).

If a person doesn't have sex, then they masturbate. Which is a nearly equally disturbing thought to many Christians providing them with a lifetime of guilt and remorse.

I just love how those who have contempt for christians always use the "they are boring, and guilt ridden" argument to make their case for trying to bring christians down.
Shadrac, are you a christian? If so how can you say such a stupid thing you know better, and if you are not.. it's still a stupid thing to say becasue how can you possibly speak with any authority??.

 

[shadrack]

I just love how those who have contempt for christians always use the "they are boring, and guilt ridden" argument to make their case for trying to bring christians down.
Shadrac, are you a christian? If so how can you say such a stupid thing you know better, and if you are not.. it's still a stupid thing to say becasue how can you possibly speak with any authority??.

I don't have contempt for Christianity and I didn't say anything about being boring. I think the Biblical text is one of the greatest books ever written.

Sexual drive is not a mental drive (if that's what you are calling a stupid thing to say), it is a physiological one. You can't just think differently and it will go away. That's all I'm saying. I know lots of Christians riddled with guilt because they feel like they have failed to live up to expected standards.

 

[Bonnie]

I don't have contempt for Christianity and I didn't say anything about being boring. I think the Biblical text is one of the greatest books ever written.

Sexual drive is not a mental drive (if that's what you are calling a stupid thing to say), it is a physiological one. You can't just think differently and it will go away. That's all I'm saying. I know lots of Christians riddled with guilt because they feel like they have failed to live up to expected standards.

Then Im sorry for you as I know many Catholics who make good decisions everyday and don't feel any more guilt than anyone else who is human. Sexual drive is both a physiological one and a mental one in that we have the capacity to decide how we are to handle our desires, we are by no means victims of these desires unless we decide that's how it's going to be. Lastly religion/faith
is the way to help make one's will stronger not weaker.

 

[dumphauler]

A woman's rite to choose. what? A woman can choose to have sex or not. what were realy talking about here is a woman's rite to have sex without consiquence. The "Sexual revolution" of the 60'S. Before then for the most part girl's where protected by the family's prior to marrage. After it alot of men took full advantage of the situation. Call me a Taliban but it's to bad were in the presant situation and there's something to be said about the way thing's were- about 98% of all women are going to want a baby sometime in there lives and when that time comes the one's that had an abortion will have great emotional distress over what happened in there youth, Besides this there is the bigger question of wether this a animal or an Immortal spirit?
I beleave abortion cheapen's the value of everyone. The great thing's like the constitution , Bill of rites - " We hold these truthes to be self evedent that all men are created equile and endowed by there creator with sertain inalienable rites " If your an animal all that's bullshit. and you get stuff like the patriot act, and indefinate detention without charge.

 

[Bonnie]

A woman's rite to choose. what? A woman can choose to have sex or not. what were realy talking about here is a woman's rite to have sex without consiquence. The "Sexual revolution" of the 60'S. Before then for the most part girl's where protected by the family's prior to marrage. After it alot of men took full advantage of the situation. Call me a Taliban but it's to bad were in the presant situation and there's something to be said about the way thing's were- about 98% of all women are going to want a baby sometime in there lives and when that time comes the one's that had an abortion will have great emotional distress over what happened in there youth, Besides this there is the bigger question of wether this a animal or an Immortal spirit?
I beleave abortion cheapen's the value of everyone. The great thing's like the constitution , Bill of rites - " We hold these truthes to be self evedent that all men are created equile and endowed by there creator with sertain inalienable rites " If your an animal all that's bullshit. and you get stuff like the patriot act, and indefinate detention without charge.

Nicely said!!!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Lazy, state of mind, a choice??

I might agree that suppressing the creation of a corrupt and immoral society is achieved by encouraging individual development. But empirical data suggests there will be higher corruption levels within a society when an individual's orientation is based on survival values as opposed to self-expression values. The impoverished face the challenge to come up with creative solutions to their situations when there is no time for self-expression while their minds are consumed with survival. In other words, your argument against welfare is actually the argument for welfare.

Right now in the richest nation in the world (80 times richer than the poorest nation in the world) there are 39 million Americans living within a culture of poverty. There are 20 million children being raised, not on self-expressive values, but are being oriented by a "survival of the fittest" culture (which you support) built on the "it's your fault you're poor" principle. But the sad reality is quite different.....in the U.S. and all across the world.

Despicable and immoral by any standard except by the corrupt Christian leadership of the right wing of the Republican party.

Your mind is a corrupt cloud of pseudological crap. People find their highest selves and develop their abilities to their fullest, when they are forced to by the pressures of survival. Only liberals teach people that giving up is ok, or that using the power of government to steal from others is acceptable. I know you libs want to create a society of irresponsible cretins, sucking an authoritarian government into their lives, but you will fail, because we are here to fight you on every front.

 

[5stringJeff]

Both are physical functions urged to be accomplished (although at different stages of life) by a physiological drive. A one year old toddler cannot choose to not walk just as a person cannot choose to not have sex (at some point in their life).

There have been thousands of people - dare I say millions over the course of history - who have willingly taken a vow of chastity and remained virgins their entire lives. So your point that people have to eventually have sex is plainly wrong. Yes it is a physiological drive, but it is a controllable drive.

 

[shadrack]

Only liberals teach people that giving up is ok, or that using the power of government to steal from others is acceptable. I know you libs want to create a society of irresponsible cretins, sucking an authoritarian government into their lives, but you will fail, because we are here to fight you on every front.

Well,

the growth in the scale and complexity of industrial societies

the processes of social and economic change have are so fast moving and complicated that that individuals are increasingly ill-equipped to anticipate or cope with adverse of effects of change

not to mention the peculiarities arising from a persons specific social or personal life that can be difficult or impossible to recognize

People find their highest selves and develop their abilities to their fullest, when they are forced to by the pressures of survival.

I'm a conservative

you libertarians think people are inherently good and will come to do good in whatever situation or environment they are placed.....

well, I take a much more severe view of human nature, one where the correct environment must be in place before people will ever do good. If you libertarians want to continue to place the responsibility of fulfilling this country's destiny in the hands of the poor, you will be the cause of our country's demise.

Your mind is a corrupt cloud of pseudological crap.

Nice insult, maybe you could tell me your logic. And don't feed me the old wore out "communism failed so don't bring it to the U.S." line. I ain't talkin' communism.

 

[shadrack]

There have been thousands of people - dare I say millions over the course of history - who have willingly taken a vow of chastity and remained virgins their entire lives. So your point that people have to eventually have sex is plainly wrong. Yes it is a physiological drive, but it is a controllable drive.

Thousands of people, eh. I suppose you are one of them.

 

[dmp]

Thousands of people, eh. I suppose you are one of them.

Having trouble sticking to the debate?

 

[lolita715]

Can some lib out there please, give me ONE good reason to be "Pro Abortion"? Just one?

A womans right?? If Bush makes abortion illegal we mine as well put welfare offices in place of the old abortion clinics. Women who are raped, 13 years old, poor ect... should not be bringing kids into this world. Are you going to pay for the mess of all the extra kids and the weight they will have on the economy. once again your body your choice.