Abraham Lincoln on trial

[PredFan]

paperview's post blows PredFan's OP into fail.

Lincoln addressed the issue of the Corwin Amendment in March of 1861, in his inauguration. At that point, many states had already seceded.

A little Timeline for you, from the SC Convention forward:

December 20, 1860: South Carolina convention passes ordinance of secession.
December 24, 1860: Mississippi Senator Jefferson Davis introduces a "compromise" proposal which would effectively make slavery a national institution.
December 26, 1860: Major Anderson moves Federal garrison in Charleston, SC, from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter.
January 3, 1861: Georgia seizes Fort Pulaski. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 4, 1861: Alabama seizes U.S. arsenal at Mount Vernon. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 5, 1861: Alabama seizes Forts Morgan and Gaines. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 6, 1861: Florida seizes Apalachicola arsenal. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE ARSENAL BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 7, 1861: Florida seizes Fort Marion. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 8, 1861: Floridians try to seize Fort Barrancas but are chased off.
January 9, 1861: Mississippi secedes.

Star of the West fired on in Charleston Harbor <-- FIRING ON A SHIP - A CLEAR ACT OF WAR
THE STEAMSHIP "MARION." SEIZED BY THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA TO BE CONVERTED INTO A MAN-OF-WAR.
January 10, 1861: Florida secedes.

Louisiana seizes U.S. arsenal at Baton Rouge, as well as Forts Jackson and St. Philip.
January 11, 1861: Alabama secedes.

Louisiana seizes U.S. Marine Hospital.
January 14, 1861: Louisiana seizes Fort Pike. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 19, 1861: Georgia secedes.
January 26, 1861: Louisiana secedes.
January 28, 1861: Tennessee Resolutions in favor of Crittenden Compromise offered in Congress.
February 1, 1861: Texas secedes.
February 8, 1861: Provisional Constitution of the Confederacy adopted in Montgomery, AL.

Arkansas seizes U.S. Arsenal at Little Rock.
February 12, 1861: Arkansas seizes U.S. ordnance stores at Napoleon.
February 18, 1861: Jefferson Davis inaugurated as President of the Confederacy.
March 4, 1861: Abraham Lincoln inaugurated as 16th President of the United States.
March 21, 1861: "Cornerstone speech" delivered by Alexander Stephens. (This is where the Confederate V President lays it out clearly: Slavery is the Cornerstone of the Confederacy.)

April 12, 1861: Fort Sumter fired upon by Confederates.
THE WAR OFFICIALLY BEGINS.

Thanks again for providing some interesting trivia which btw, in no way refutes what I am saying. Let me give you a little clue, at his inauguration, it wasnt the first time he addressed attempts to compromise to avoid sucession.

Not in the least, sorry.

 

[bripat9643]

[


Would you have supported Lincoln to make slavery constitutional just to preserve the union?

I think everyone knew Slavery was on the way out... So making a few temporary deals to win the war was worth it.

Case in point. Had Missouri, Maryland and Tennesee joined the Confederacy, the North might have lost. But political sentiment was against secession in those states. Lincoln played that one pretty well.

And at the end of the day, the 13th Amendment was passed, which oulawed slavery in all those states.

Lincoln arrested the entire state legislature of Maryland, so I hardly think "political sentiment" had anything to do with its decision.

The 13th and 14the Amendments were passed when the Confederate states had no representation in Congress or the right to vote on them. They are both illegitimate

 

[bripat9643]

This is what your real complaint is, isn't it? That they created a stronger national government.

So why all the smoke and mirrors about caring about the poor plantation owners.

The complaint is that they trashed the Constitution. A "stronger national government" means one empowered to trample on our Constitutional rights, so, yes, I object to that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Absoutely, predfan. Tuff for u.

paperview's post blows PredFan's OP into fail.

Thanks again for providing some interesting trivia which btw, in no way refutes what I am saying. Let me give you a little clue, at his inauguration, it wasnt the first time he addressed attempts to compromise to avoid sucession.

Not in the least, sorry.

 

[PredFan]

Absoutely, predfan. Tuff for u.

paperview's post blows PredFan's OP into fail.

Not in the least, sorry.

Just because you say so? I'm not buying it. Go peddle your nonsense somewhere else.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The only illegitimate arguments here are bripat's.

12 members of the legislature were arrested, not the entire or majority of the legislature.

The passage of the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments were legitimate.

bripat is wandering in delusion again.

 

[bripat9643]

As for today, the question is still being asked. Is it illegal to secede? If so, bring your best arugments to defend your position. More importantly, however, if it is illegal then should SCOTUS not be included on determing the Constitutionality of such an act?

Secession really wasn't the issue of what caused the Civil War. It was the Confederacy who decided to fire on the United States, at Fort Sumter. You are aware that South Carolina ceded all Fort Sumter property to the United States in 1814, in perpetuity. No, it was the Confederacy who knew their secession wouldn't hold unless they started a war.

More federal propaganda. Union troops were occupying the sovereign territory of South Carolina. Simply being there was an act of war. Intruding on South Carolina waters in an attempt to resupply them was an even more egregious act of war. the theory that the South started the Civil War is a Lincoln con.

To the contrary, secession was allowed to stand in West Virginia.

I hate revisionism.

Good toadies don't like to have their propaganda contradicted.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The theory that bripat understands what he is saying is stupid.

 

[bripat9643]

Moving to a centralized government is what made the US a superpower

the Soviet Union is also a superpower. Do you endorse the actions of Joseph Stalin as well?

 

[JoeB131]

[


Would you have supported Lincoln to make slavery constitutional just to preserve the union?

I think everyone knew Slavery was on the way out... So making a few temporary deals to win the war was worth it.

Case in point. Had Missouri, Maryland and Tennesee joined the Confederacy, the North might have lost. But political sentiment was against secession in those states. Lincoln played that one pretty well.

And at the end of the day, the 13th Amendment was passed, which oulawed slavery in all those states.

Lincoln arrested the entire state legislature of Maryland, so I hardly think "political sentiment" had anything to do with its decision.

The 13th and 14the Amendments were passed when the Confederate states had no representation in Congress or the right to vote on them. They are both illegitimate

Ooooookay, you keep telling yourself that.

I'd love to revoke the South's statehoods, and make them all occuppied territories until you all grow some brains.

But the fact is, on Maryland, yeah, he locked up a COUPLE Of Secessionists (not the whole legistlature), but the rank and file folks of Maryland said, "Shit, most of us don't own slaves, fuck this nonsense..."

 

[rightwinger]

[


Would you have supported Lincoln to make slavery constitutional just to preserve the union?

I think everyone knew Slavery was on the way out... So making a few temporary deals to win the war was worth it.

Case in point. Had Missouri, Maryland and Tennesee joined the Confederacy, the North might have lost. But political sentiment was against secession in those states. Lincoln played that one pretty well.

And at the end of the day, the 13th Amendment was passed, which oulawed slavery in all those states.

Lincoln arrested the entire state legislature of Maryland, so I hardly think "political sentiment" had anything to do with its decision.

The 13th and 14the Amendments were passed when the Confederate states had no representation in Congress or the right to vote on them. They are both illegitimate

Yes.....seceding from the greatest country on earth will do that

 

[rightwinger]

Moving to a centralized government is what made the US a superpower

the Soviet Union is also a superpower. Do you endorse the actions of Joseph Stalin as well?

The US is the only remaining superpower.....we would not be if we had a state centered government

 

[JakeStarkey]

One only needs to read bripat to realize that libertarianism is a bozo philosophy.

 

[bripat9643]

The only illegitimate arguments here are bripat's.

12 members of the legislature were arrested, not the entire or majority of the legislature.

The passage of the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments were legitimate.

bripat is wandering in delusion again.

Where does the Constitution say that some states can be barred from voting on Constitutional Amendments?

You FAIL.

 

[bripat9643]

One only needs to read bripat to realize that libertarianism is a bozo philosophy.

And one only needs to read Fakey to realize Fakey is a bozo.

 

[bripat9643]

Moving to a centralized government is what made the US a superpower

the Soviet Union is also a superpower. Do you endorse the actions of Joseph Stalin as well?

The US is the only remaining superpower.....we would not be if we had a state centered government

In other words, you endorse Stalin's policies because they made the Soviet Union a superpower?

Do you genuinely enjoy the taste of boot polish that much?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You got to get out of the basement, kid.

The southern states could have rejoined the Union, sent reps and senators to DC, and voted on the amendments there, and then allowed their citizens to vote in the states.

Only the states themselves barred themselves from particpating.

You going to ignore your lie about the "entirety" of a legislature being arrested by Lincoln?

The only illegitimate arguments here are bripat's. 12 members of the legislature were arrested, not the entire or majority of the legislature. The passage of the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments were legitimate. bripat is wandering in delusion again.

Where does the Constitution say that some states can be barred from voting on Constitutional Amendments? You FAIL.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes.....seceding from the greatest country on earth will do that

According to nitwits like you, states can't secede. So when where the states ever not part of the union?

 

[jwoodie]

South Carolina's decision to secede BEFORE Lincoln was even inaugurated showed contempt for the same Constitution that it had ratified and was now using as a pretext for its departure from the Union. Attacking the federal installation at Fort Sumter pushed it further into the status of a hostile rogue state which was at war with the United States. As such, the Confederacy of other states that joined South Carolina in its rebellion were deprived of a legitimate moral purpose for their actions, at least as the Northern states were concerned.

If the Confederate States had asserted their sovereignty in a more peaceful and reasoned manner, their secession might have succeeded. Instead they were determined to defend Southern honor by provoking the bloodiest war in our nation's history.

 

[Old Rocks]

the Soviet Union is also a superpower. Do you endorse the actions of Joseph Stalin as well?

The US is the only remaining superpower.....we would not be if we had a state centered government

In other words, you endorse Stalin's policies because they made the Soviet Union a superpower?

Do you genuinely enjoy the taste of boot polish that much?

Pattycake, if you truly despise government that much, move to Somalia.