All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[Mindful]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Billo_Really, et al,

This is just so wrong on so many levels, that it is almost criminal.



You should know better.

Rule 6. Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities. That includes the Israeli civilians.

Once settlers move in to the OPT, they are no longer civilians.

Arab Palestinians of the West Bank (Protected Persons) who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, "shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed." Arab Palestinians of the West Bank is guilty of the following acts, are subject to prosecution and sentencing under the penal legislation and/or the Articles 64 thru 75 of the Fourth Geneva Convention:

◈ Espionage,
◈ Serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,
◈ Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons,​

While you are correct, the Israeli citizens are "NOT" categorized as protected persons, they in the category of are all persons who are not members of armed forces or organized armed group = civilians.

Your statement is very close to advocating the violation of Customary and IHL.

Article 13 → Protection of the civilian population • Additional Protocol I to GCIV

1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against the dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules shall be observed in all circumstances.

2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Part, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.​

Sorry, after 50+ years of brutal occupation, you sleep in the bed you made.

Settlers in Area "C" are there under the full Israeli civil and security control and AGREED upon by the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). The PLO is considered the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - Resolution (28 October 1974).

Whereas, the Gaza Palestinians are participating in a belligerent assault on the border with Israel.

That is total bullshit. Protesting their illegal and immoral incarceration at the hands of a foreign force, is not a belligerent assault. Israeli snipers deliberately shooting innocent women and children, first responders and the handicapped over 300 meters from Israel, is not a border assault.

The territory, under the governing body of HAMAS, has declared that:

"Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle."​

It is a much different set of circumstances.

Most Respectfully,
R

It's also legal. What the Israelis are doing, is not.

You said nothing, as usual.

Just seething with hate. One would also imagine it as personal.

 

[Billo_Really]

You said nothing, as usual.

Just seething with hate. One would also imagine it as personal.

Why would I hate something that has nothing to do with my daily life?

 

[Mindful]

You said nothing, as usual.

Just seething with hate. One would also imagine it as personal.

Why would I hate something that has nothing to do with my daily life?

Could have fooled me.

 

[Billo_Really]

Could have fooled me.

You're being far too generous with yourself, troll.

 

[Mindful]

Could have fooled me.

You're being far too generous with yourself, troll.

Says the seething arch troll himself.

Can't you control your hatred?

 

[Mindful]

Apartheid
by Khaled Abu Toameh
December 20, 2018 at 5:00 am

Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid

• According to the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), "legal prohibitions persist on access for Palestinian refugees to 36 liberal or syndicated professions (including in medicine, farming, fishery, and public transportation)... In order to work, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are required to obtain an annual work permit. Following a change in the law in 2001, Palestinian refugees are reportedly prevented from legal acquiring, transferring or inheriting real property in Lebanon."
  
  
• The latest failure serves as a reminder of the apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon. According to various human rights organizations, Palestinians there suffer systematic discrimination in nearly every aspect of daily life. The UNHCR also points out that the Palestinians in Lebanon do not have access to Lebanese public health services and rely mostly on UNRWA for health services, as well as non-profit organizations and the Palestinian Red Crescent Society. The Palestinians are also denied access to Lebanese public schools.
  
  
• Where are all the international human rights organizations and pro-Palestinian groups around the world that feign concern for the suffering of the Palestinians? Will they remain silent over the neglect of Wahbeh because because he died in an Arab country and Israel had nothing to do with his death?
  

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Mindful, et al,

Since the threshold crossing leading into the new century, there has been this ever-growing fixation and tendency to label every socio-economic development as "apartheid." This is particularly true in the Arab World; but the shape of the problem is seen around-the-world.

What we are discussing here is not a case of "apartheid laws" → targeting Palestinians (in an Arab country). This is a cultural reaction and backlash to the ever increasing cost and burden on various national economies. In this case, the example being Lebanon → an Anglo-French forces carve-out in 1918, from the Ottoman Territory of Syria (True Names: Vilayets of Beirut and Damascus).

What we actually are observing are the emirgence of discriminatory laws enacted to reduce the socio-economic burden by the presence of Palestinians in an Arab country (Lebanon).

The latest failure serves as a reminder of the apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon. According to various human rights organizations, Palestinians there suffer systematic discrimination in nearly every aspect of daily life

(COMMENT)

This is not all that unique or unusual. You may recall that the US went through this --- which stared the whole ball of wax on the border wall on the southern border with Mexico, and that of the controversy over the order to return Elián González to his father in Cuba. And who could forget the political uproar over the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) catch and release policy in southern Arizona just this year.

This is socio-economic and political backlash; not apartheid. And this over extended use of the term "apartheid," as applied in the Middle East, is merely a varient form of the fallacy → the "appeal to an emotion" (argumentum ad passiones).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

"In actual area, settlements are taking up virtually the same space they did in the 1990s. Do you deny that? It comes from your own publications. They aren't expanding in any meaningful way. You scream that they are.... because your agenda isn't the truth."

-----

"SO you cannot deny that settlements aren't expanding, space wise. You cannot deny that your assertion that withdrawal would bring peace is anything more than wishful thinking. You can't deny that previous moves towards peace were not reciprocated. But you can use a dictionary."

-------------------
Needless to say, APN didn't post their withering takedown of this supposed "right wing extremist" on their blog. (I have little problem with a two state solution - if Israel had an actual peace partner that would allow Jews to live there, to buy land and to freely visit their holy places without fear. The fact that the idea of such a solution is so absurd is the real problem, not Israeli intransigence.)

The post I linked to from 2010 is an important one. Peace Now's main argument is that "We advocate a negotiated Isr-Pal peace agreement, w/ 1-to-1 land swaps, that would leave most Israelis where they live now in the West Bank. Israel would then have complete moral high ground and full int'l support when responding to terrorism."

But does Israel really have full international support for Gaza operations after its full withdrawal? Does it really have full international support to respond to Hezbollah after its full withdrawal from Lebanon? It is an absurd fallacy, and Peace Now's entire existence is based on this fallacy of "IF Israel does what we want, THEN things will be peachy keen."


(full article online)

A Twitter conversation with Americans for Peace Now @PeaceNowUS ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Ken Roth is entitled to his opinion.


And Ken Roth thinks the Israeli settlements are illegal.

So far, so good.

But Ken Roth is also the executive director of Human Rights Watch



When Roth tweets, he is tweeting as the head of HRW, not as a private person -- and he does not even include the usual "retweets are not endorsements" disclaimer on his Twitter profile.

The halo effect that surrounds Human Rights Watch extends to Ken Roth, and he appears not to mind that.

That's OK too.

But Ken Roth does seem to throw around that claim of illegality an awful lot.

(full article online)

@KenRoth from @HRW Is Not An Expert In International Law - But He Plays One On Twitter (Daled Amos) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

Exposé: European organization harasses IDF soldiers in Hevron

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yeshiva student attacked by Arabs in central Israel

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israeli teen raised Muslim returns to Judaism

 

[Sixties Fan]

Here is is how the money of the European Union and the international community is being spent by the "Palestinian resistance."

Hamas in Gaza has just organised a parade to celebrate its campaign against Israel with children dressed up as terrorists. Cost of the grim staging? $534,350 US dollars. Half a million thrown away, so that the Palestinian Arab masses impoverished by Hamas could pay homage to their corrupted jailers. Then they complain that Gaza is in a “humanitarian crisis.”

No, Israeli and Palestinian Arab societies are not the same. No, a society that glorifies death and war, that puts a rifle in the hand of a newborn, that offers its children as martyrs and hangs weapons on them like garlands, is not like a society where mothers have to bury their children killed by terrorism and sing the praises of life instead of hatred. “I'll show you”, Shira Ish Ran said when she woke up, after discovering that she had lost his baby in a Palestinian attack. “I will give birth to many more children”.

The photograph of Amiad Yisrael, Shira's murdered infant son, should win the next journalism awards and become viral on social media. There are no stones, prams, smoke, twisted faces shouting slogans of death and war as in the images of Palestinian Arab mourning that win all the media awards, often artfully mounted. Here are only the hands of a father holding his child who lived just three days. No people and parent, Palestinian or Israeli, should have to live through all this. But only Israel suffers all this without being noticed.

Then I looked at the pictures of the last Israeli soldiers killed by Palestinian terrorists, Yosef Cohen and Yovel Mor Yosef. I never understood, looking at the faces of these young Israelis - children like all the other boys of the West - how the “nice people”, the pacifists, the leftists, those who call them “occupiers”, do not understand that without them, without Tsahal (the Israeli army), the question of peace between Israel and its neighbors would never even have been raised in 70 years.

(full article online)

What we, Western idiots, will never get about Israel

 

[Coyote]

Beyond that there are many reasons for fear and distrust including loss of land and homes, violence, kids incarcerated as adults, etc. you are choosing to ignore it when you seem to imply Palestinians have no valid reasons to fear and hate.

The reasons are not the same and not equivalent.

I totally disagree. That is a total dismissal of the validity of what they experience and fear, and essentially excuses it.

 

[Coyote]

What factual errors? Is that all you got out of it?

Nothing I haven't heard before. From both sides. Was there something in particular you wanted to discuss?

No. It was an interesting article worth a read.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Beyond that there are many reasons for fear and distrust including loss of land and homes, violence, kids incarcerated as adults, etc. you are choosing to ignore it when you seem to imply Palestinians have no valid reasons to fear and hate.

The reasons are not the same and not equivalent.

I totally disagree. That is a total dismissal of the validity of what they experience and fear, and essentially excuses it.

The Palestinian population, not the leaders, are experiencing and fearing .......because???

What are they led to believe from birth?
What do they learn in school?
What do they learn in their summer camps?
What do they learn in their films or plays?

How much of all of the above is responsible for what they experience and fear, and how they react towards all they hear and experience?

How much is the teachings of Islam responsible for what they experience and fear?

Why can't the Palestinian Leaders change the school curriculum, etc..... as they were to do with the Oslo Accords, to prepare the population for peace with Israel?

Do yo have an answer to any of the above?

 

[Sixties Fan]

• According to the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), "legal prohibitions persist on access for Palestinian refugees to 36 liberal or syndicated professions (including in medicine, farming, fishery, and public transportation)... In order to work, Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are required to obtain an annual work permit. Following a change in the law in 2001, Palestinian refugees are reportedly prevented from legal acquiring, transferring or inheriting real property in Lebanon."
  
  
• The latest failure serves as a reminder of the apartheid and discrimination Palestinians face in Lebanon. According to various human rights organizations, Palestinians there suffer systematic discrimination in nearly every aspect of daily life. The UNHCR also points out that the Palestinians in Lebanon do not have access to Lebanese public health services and rely mostly on UNRWA for health services, as well as non-profit organizations and the Palestinian Red Crescent Society. The Palestinians are also denied access to Lebanese public schools.
  
  
• Where are all the international human rights organizations and pro-Palestinian groups around the world that feign concern for the suffering of the Palestinians? Will they remain silent over the neglect of Wahbeh because because he died in an Arab country and Israel had nothing to do with his death?
  
  (full article online)
  
  Palestinian Children: Victims of Arab Apartheid
  

 

[Sixties Fan]

Likewise, the PLO’s claim to a “state of Palestine’s” sovereignty in “East Jerusalem” is central to its ICC case. The ICC is not a court of unlimited jurisdiction. It can only consider cases concerning conduct within the territory of states that have accepted the court’s jurisdiction. If “East Jerusalem” is part of a corpus separatum, it is not territory of a “state of Palestine,” and the ICC lacks jurisdiction to investigate or prosecute any alleged crimes committed there—a concession the PLO is unwilling to make when it seeks to criminalize Jewish residents of “East Jerusalem” as “illegal settlers.”

It is simply not possible for all of Jerusalem to be a corpus separatum subject to no territorial sovereignty, and at the same time for more than half of Jerusalem to be sovereign territory of a state called Palestine.

Logic, it seems, is not the currency of a successful legal strategy in international courts. The politicized ICJ may bow to Palestinian demands to call Jerusalem a “corpus separatum” even as the politicized ICC bows to Palestinian demands to recognize “East Jerusalem” as “occupied Palestinian territory.” Experience teaches that Palestinian claims need not persuade or even be logically consistent to succeed, as long as they aim at disadvantaging Israel. The tragedy is that the ICC and ICJ are now joining hands in helping the PLO make a mockery of international law.

(full article online)

Is ‘East Jerusalem’ Palestinian Territory?

 

[Sixties Fan]

For Years, Qatar Funded Hamas Schools In Gaza Where Children Receive Weapons Training

 

[Coyote]

Beyond that there are many reasons for fear and distrust including loss of land and homes, violence, kids incarcerated as adults, etc. you are choosing to ignore it when you seem to imply Palestinians have no valid reasons to fear and hate.

The reasons are not the same and not equivalent.

I totally disagree. That is a total dismissal of the validity of what they experience and fear, and essentially excuses it.

The Palestinian population, not the leaders, are experiencing and fearing .......because???

What are they led to believe from birth?
What do they learn in school?
What do they learn in their summer camps?
What do they learn in their films or plays?

And add to that - what experience in their daily lives that would in any way alter those things?

• Having soldiers break on and drag your kids off in the middle of night and you as a parent cant even go to them.
• Losing a brother to IDF gun fire...and everyone you know has lost someone to violence.
• Seeing school boy shot for throwing rocks while the settler rock thrower nearby is undisturbed. And not being able to do anything about it.
• Seeing walls and checkpoints blocking access to their family farmland.
• Seeing their generations of olive trees burned down, and again...little done that makes an impression on the culprits.

• Seeing a Palestinian mother killed by a (likely) Jewish rock thrower, and it is dismissed by Israeli politicians yet a week later, when a Jewish mother is attacked and her baby dies - the outcry is huge, and processes and revenge is demanded: Right warns Netanyahu he’s on borrowed time

• Seeing their access to parts of of their community restricted due to a new rec center built for the exclusive use of the settler community kids while their kids have to play in the street, as was noted in the article I posted it earlier.

• Getting assaulted and beaten up because you are Arab or are speaking Arabic. Hate crimes against Palestinians on the rise in Israel and West Bank

• Being told you don't belong there when your family and community have existed there for centuries.

• Seeing a new illegal settlement pop up on your farmland - illegal, yet infrastructure, schools and protection supplied by the Israeli government while you cant add a simple school without it being torn down by the government.

• Seeing your access to the Israeli courts in sharply disputes sharply curtailed...and told even if you win, the illegal settlement will stay, become legalized, and you will be compensated "125%" for property that has been in your family for generations.

• Seeing Israel putting in 15 waste treatment plants, which it can operate more cheaply and with fewer environmental regulations in the West Bank, while Palestinian residents there can't even get the infrastructure approved for basic services.

• Having trash, and worse dumped on you when you have to walk through portions of Jerusalem.

None of this absolves violence. But severing the Palestinians actions and anger from their daily reality and history is dishonest. There are reasons for it, and they are perfectly valid reasons even if the actions they undertake are not. Many of the above fears are shared by their Jewish counterparts: violence, hatred for being who they are, etc. yet you say the Palestinians have "no valid reason" for these fears and anger? Really?



What do Israeli's learn about Palestinians?

Food for thought: Jewish and Palestinian Children Learn Together at Jerusalem 'Greenhouse' of Coexistence

How much of all of the above is responsible for what they experience and fear, and how they react towards all they hear and experience?

How much is the teachings of Islam responsible for what they experience and fear?

Why can't the Palestinian Leaders change the school curriculum, etc..... as they were to do with the Oslo Accords, to prepare the population for peace with Israel?

Do yo have an answer to any of the above?

In many parts of Israel, Jews and Arabs largely got along, sharing communities etc. What changed? Greater extremism and intolerance since the break up of the British Mandate? Why

Why can't Jewish leaders change their school curriculum?

I think quite honestly, they should get together and create a shared curriculum, one that recognizes the other, and their rights, respects that their historical narratives WILL be different, but tries to at least strengthen that which is in common and not make the other "disappear".