jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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well me personally, I'd just like for you to post up one place on earth that has seen a rise in it's coastal lines. can you say alligators?
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An interesting article on sea levels rising..
- Thread starter Wyatt earp
- Start date
SSDD
Gold Member
- Nov 6, 2012
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Why it is necessary to take changes of the shape of the ocean basins into account is blatantly obvious. I'm curious to hear why you think it is not.
And the dishonesty continues...Let me ask again...why do you think it is necessary to use adjustments meant for measuring depth and sinking sea floors to sea height adjustments when there are adjustments meant exactly for that purpose but don't result in crazy increases in sea level rise?
Jeff Masters article on the tropospheric hotspotI'm also curious to hear why you think an estimate of the ocean's volume based solely on tide gauges measuring the height of the ocean's very rim is more accurate than one which measures the geocentric height of the ocean's surface worldwide.[/QUOTE]
Again...isostatic adjustments have nothing to do with sea level rise...that is not what that sort of adjustment is for and when such adjustments are not used...sea level rise drops back to where it has been for as long as we have been measuring....
SSDD
Gold Member
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Another question! Do you believe that changing the shape of a container of water can change its level? Yes or no.
Again....isostatic adjustments are used primarily when the floor of a body of water is thought to be sinking....the sea level chart you provided used GLOBAL isostatic adjustments...do you believe the sea floor is sinking globally?...any evidence to support that line of thought?...if you don't think that the sea floor is sinking globally, then the GLOBAL isostatic adjustments represent fraud.
It is entertaining watching you attempt to defend the indefensible...and you are so bad at it.
I guarantee you the people at the UC Sea Level Laboratory are not as stupid as you'd like to believe they are.
What is glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA), and why do you correct for it?
Edited: 2011-07-29
The correction for glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA) accounts for the fact that the ocean basins are getting slightly larger since the end of the last glacial cycle. GIA is not caused by current glacier melt, but by the rebound of the Earth from the several kilometer thick ice sheets that covered much of North America and Europe around 20,000 years ago. Mantle material is still moving from under the oceans into previously glaciated regions on land. The effect is that currently some land surfaces are rising and some ocean bottoms are falling relative to the center of the Earth (the center of the reference frame of the satellite altimeter). Averaged over the global ocean surface, the mean rate of sea level change due to GIA is independently estimated from models at -0.3 mm/yr (Peltier, 2001,2002, 2009; Peltier & Luthcke, 2009). The magnitude of this correction is small (smaller than the ±0.4 mm/yr uncertainty of the estimated GMSL rate), but the GIA uncertainty is at least 50 percent. However, since the ocean basins are getting larger due to GIA, this will reduce by a very small amount the relative sea level rise that is seen along the coasts. To understand the relative sea level effects of global oceanic volume changes (as estimated by the GMSL) at a specific location, issues such as GIA, tectonic uplift, and self attraction and loading (SAL, e.g., Tamisiea et al., 2010), must also be considered. For more discussion on the GMSL and how it relates to tide gauges, see theGMSL and tide gauge FAQs.
What is glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA), and why do you correct for it? | CU Sea Level Research Group
Why is the GMSL different than local tide gauge measurements?
Edited: 2015-10-16
The global mean sea level (GMSL) we estimate is an average over the oceans (limited by the satellite inclination to ± 66 degrees latitude), and it cannot be used to predict relative sea level changes along the coasts. As an average, it indicates the general state of the sea level across the oceans and not any specific location. Local tide gauges measure the sea level at a single location relative to the local land surface, a measurement referred to as "relative sea level" (RSL). Because the land surfaces are dynamic, with some locations rising (e.g., Hudson Bay due to GIA) or sinking (e.g., New Orleans due to subsidence), relative sea level changes are different across world coasts. To understand the relative sea level effects of global oceanic volume changes (as estimated by the GMSL) at a specific location, issues such as GIA, tectonic uplift, and self attraction and loading (SAL, e.g., Tamisiea et al., 2010), must also be considered.
We do compare the altimeter sea level measurements against a network tide gauges to discover and monitor drift in the satellite (and sometimes tide gauge) measurements. This is discussed further in the tide gauge discussion.
GMSL is a good indicator of changes in the volume of water in the oceans due to mass influx (e.g., land ice melt) and density changes (e.g., thermal expansion), and is therefore of interest in detecting climate change.
Why is the GMSL different than local tide gauge measurements? | CU Sea Level Research Group
Tide Gauge Sea Level
Edited: 2011-05-17
Historical Tide Gauge Measurements
Traditionally, global sea level change has been estimated from tide gauge measurements collected over the last century. Tide gauges, usually placed on piers, measure the sea level relative to a nearby geodetic benchmark. The figure below is the most commonly used tide gauge measurement system, a float operating in a stilling well. Surveys of the tide gauge site are performed regularly to account for any settling of the site. Tide gauges may also move vertically with the region as a result of post-glacial rebound, tectonic uplift or crustal subsidence. This greatly complicates the problem of determining global sea level change from tide gauge data. Differences in global sea level estimates from tide gauge data usually reflect the investigator's approach in considering these vertical crustal movements. Tide gauges also monitor meteorological factors that affect sea levels, such as barometric pressure and wind speed, so that these variable factors can be eliminated from long-term assessments of sea level change. Although the global network of tide gauges comprises of a poorly distributed sea level measurement system, it offers the only source of historical, precise, long-term sea level data. Major conclusions from tide gauge data have been that global sea level has risen approximately 10-25 cm during the past century.
Tide Gauge Sea Level | CU Sea Level Research Group
What is glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA), and why do you correct for it?
Edited: 2011-07-29
The correction for glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA) accounts for the fact that the ocean basins are getting slightly larger since the end of the last glacial cycle. GIA is not caused by current glacier melt, but by the rebound of the Earth from the several kilometer thick ice sheets that covered much of North America and Europe around 20,000 years ago. Mantle material is still moving from under the oceans into previously glaciated regions on land. The effect is that currently some land surfaces are rising and some ocean bottoms are falling relative to the center of the Earth (the center of the reference frame of the satellite altimeter). Averaged over the global ocean surface, the mean rate of sea level change due to GIA is independently estimated from models at -0.3 mm/yr (Peltier, 2001,2002, 2009; Peltier & Luthcke, 2009). The magnitude of this correction is small (smaller than the ±0.4 mm/yr uncertainty of the estimated GMSL rate), but the GIA uncertainty is at least 50 percent. However, since the ocean basins are getting larger due to GIA, this will reduce by a very small amount the relative sea level rise that is seen along the coasts. To understand the relative sea level effects of global oceanic volume changes (as estimated by the GMSL) at a specific location, issues such as GIA, tectonic uplift, and self attraction and loading (SAL, e.g., Tamisiea et al., 2010), must also be considered. For more discussion on the GMSL and how it relates to tide gauges, see theGMSL and tide gauge FAQs.
What is glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA), and why do you correct for it? | CU Sea Level Research Group
Why is the GMSL different than local tide gauge measurements?
Edited: 2015-10-16
The global mean sea level (GMSL) we estimate is an average over the oceans (limited by the satellite inclination to ± 66 degrees latitude), and it cannot be used to predict relative sea level changes along the coasts. As an average, it indicates the general state of the sea level across the oceans and not any specific location. Local tide gauges measure the sea level at a single location relative to the local land surface, a measurement referred to as "relative sea level" (RSL). Because the land surfaces are dynamic, with some locations rising (e.g., Hudson Bay due to GIA) or sinking (e.g., New Orleans due to subsidence), relative sea level changes are different across world coasts. To understand the relative sea level effects of global oceanic volume changes (as estimated by the GMSL) at a specific location, issues such as GIA, tectonic uplift, and self attraction and loading (SAL, e.g., Tamisiea et al., 2010), must also be considered.
We do compare the altimeter sea level measurements against a network tide gauges to discover and monitor drift in the satellite (and sometimes tide gauge) measurements. This is discussed further in the tide gauge discussion.
GMSL is a good indicator of changes in the volume of water in the oceans due to mass influx (e.g., land ice melt) and density changes (e.g., thermal expansion), and is therefore of interest in detecting climate change.
Why is the GMSL different than local tide gauge measurements? | CU Sea Level Research Group
Tide Gauge Sea Level
Edited: 2011-05-17
Historical Tide Gauge Measurements
Traditionally, global sea level change has been estimated from tide gauge measurements collected over the last century. Tide gauges, usually placed on piers, measure the sea level relative to a nearby geodetic benchmark. The figure below is the most commonly used tide gauge measurement system, a float operating in a stilling well. Surveys of the tide gauge site are performed regularly to account for any settling of the site. Tide gauges may also move vertically with the region as a result of post-glacial rebound, tectonic uplift or crustal subsidence. This greatly complicates the problem of determining global sea level change from tide gauge data. Differences in global sea level estimates from tide gauge data usually reflect the investigator's approach in considering these vertical crustal movements. Tide gauges also monitor meteorological factors that affect sea levels, such as barometric pressure and wind speed, so that these variable factors can be eliminated from long-term assessments of sea level change. Although the global network of tide gauges comprises of a poorly distributed sea level measurement system, it offers the only source of historical, precise, long-term sea level data. Major conclusions from tide gauge data have been that global sea level has risen approximately 10-25 cm during the past century.
Tide Gauge Sea Level | CU Sea Level Research Group
SSDD
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I guarantee you the people at the UC Sea Level Laboratory are not as stupid as you'd like to believe they are.
All you have done is prove that you are as stupid as they hope you are....
- Banned
- #150
We've been through this a zillion times, crick. Your side has loads of color fudge charts. Whoopie...
Meanwhile...
1. 90% of the Earth's ice on Antarctica adds at least 80 billion tons of ice every year, and your side doesn't have anywhere near that amount "melting" elsewhere.
2. Your side has cherry picked three "sinking" islands on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire.
3. Nothing but islands on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire is sinking, not Ellis Island, not Ft. Sumter, not the beach used for both series of Hawaii 50, nothing...
4. Antarctica is hardly the only piece of ice on Earth growing...
Himalayan glaciers growing despite global warming
New Zealand Glaciers Growing
Meanwhile...
1. 90% of the Earth's ice on Antarctica adds at least 80 billion tons of ice every year, and your side doesn't have anywhere near that amount "melting" elsewhere.
2. Your side has cherry picked three "sinking" islands on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire.
3. Nothing but islands on the lip of the Pacific Ring of Fire is sinking, not Ellis Island, not Ft. Sumter, not the beach used for both series of Hawaii 50, nothing...
4. Antarctica is hardly the only piece of ice on Earth growing...
Himalayan glaciers growing despite global warming
New Zealand Glaciers Growing
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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Yet, every post is fudged just as we say. So, the stupid that is you, your own posts make our point! D'OHYet I post up article and article, study after study, data after data. What do we get from you? Insults and.... nothing else. VERY CONVINCING
None of you have ever shown that ANY mainstream climate data is "fudged" (and, surely JC, you can do better than copy LaDumpster). You keep saying it is. You assume that any and all adjustments are unwarranted and intended to deceive, yet none of you have ever shown that. You just assume that any change that makes things appear worse is false and you completely ignore the many adjustments that have lessened the observed warming. And now, you just assume that your point is made, when the truth of the matter is that none of you have ever done shit here but make unsubstantiated assertions.
- Banned
- #153
None of you have ever shown that ANY mainstream climate data is "fudged"
LMFAO!!!
The British Court ruling.
Climategate
The "need" to alter two highly correlated data sets (the ones showing NO WARMING in the atmosphere despite rising CO2...)
Yeah, nothing is fudged... about those "studies" claiming Antarctic ice is "melting..." what did the COURT RULE???
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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You and I did this before and I posted my 2014 post using fudge. So, again you're wrong. Try something new. I've also posted admittance of manipulation. So try again again. You're still 0 for. When might we see something factual. From you?None of you have ever shown that ANY mainstream climate data is "fudged" (and, surely JC, you can do better than copy LaDumpster). You keep saying it is. You assume that any and all adjustments are unwarranted and intended to deceive, yet none of you have ever shown that. You just assume that any change that makes things appear worse is false and you completely ignore the many adjustments that have lessened the observed warming. And now, you just assume that your point is made, when the truth of the matter is that none of you have ever done shit here but make unsubstantiated assertions.
Whatever I think concerning your intellect is irrelevant. You just demonstrated for the world to see the level of your intellect.What money do you think scientists are getting? Research grants? When a scientists get a research grant, the purpose of the grant is to fund the conduct of specified research. The grant is sized to conduct that research and the scientist will have to keep records of his expenditures for his grantor. They do not include large sums of money that the researches gets to simply stick in his pocket and use to buy a new car. If scientists were getting rich from research grants, why wouldn't we see scientists going solo? Why do they maintain employment at universities and large corporations?
You people are SO goddamned stupid!
Why do they maintain employment at universities
Because those 30~80 year old scientist are pervs...Damn how stupid do you think I am? They get to oogle at 18~22 year old coeds all day long
.
The seas are rising, Greenland's ice is melting, and the surface of the earth is warming. Simple facts supported by evidence and observations around the world. Just because it disagrees with you dumb ass politics does not change the changes we are seeing one whit. The statements of the Scientific Societies, the Academies of Science, and the major Universities around the world all state that AGW is real, and a clear and present danger.
If the sea levels are rising, then why did Al Gore buy ocean front property 6 years ago? Think he paid all that money so he could have a houseboat?
Al Gore Buys $8.9 Million Ocean-view Villa
- Banned
- #159
Once again...
90% of Earth ice on Antarctica adding at least 80 billion tons of ice every year...
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses
To get a sea level rise, you need more than 80 billion tons of net ice melt from the remaining 10% of Earth's ice, and you aren't even close...
90% of Earth ice on Antarctica adding at least 80 billion tons of ice every year...
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses
To get a sea level rise, you need more than 80 billion tons of net ice melt from the remaining 10% of Earth's ice, and you aren't even close...
That article makes absolutely NO suggestion that sea levels are not increasing. Besides, as you've been informed several times now, Zwally is by himself on this. Not a single other scientist has come out in support of his work and dozens, both before and after, flatly disagree with his findings.
Fucking idiot
Fucking idiot
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