Another concealed carry owner doing the wrong thing

[turtledude]

What's your question?

so what is your solution to all those accidental shootings you are so worried about?

 

[2aguy]

The Mauser and Hart studies are the ones that claim between 600,000-750,000 lives saved and violent crimes stopped by guns in the hands of regular people....but you have to pay to see their studies...22 dollars for the one and 44 dollars for the other, but they are at least mentioned in Dr. kleck's book...

 

[Brain357]

Every survey has a radically different number. That is because they are surveys. They are just not accurate.

Still hasn't answered the question....

and government research into guns used to save lives and stop violent crime...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

 

[2aguy]

Here is the question following the facts of a violent attack on a family...

Okay...do you have the courage of your convictions....could one of the gun grabbers please answer this question...

A Connecticut Nightmare mdash Introduction mdash Crime Library

Steven Hayes was on standby. The ex-con, bald, pudgy and middle-aged, was waiting in the yard for his younger friend to finish creeping into the house. They wanted it to be quiet.

It was about 3 a.m., and the man of the house was asleep on the porch. Hayes could see him and assumed the man's wife and daughter, about whom he'd heard from his friend, were also asleep. But they didn't know who else could be in the house. After waiting in the damp, early morning, Hayes finally saw his friend, Joshua Komisarjevsky, appear on the porch. He was carrying a baseball bat.

According to Komisarjevsky (pronounced Kom-ih-sore-JEFF-skee), who related his account to journalist Brian McDonald for the book In the Middle of the Night, he hit the sleeping man as hard as he could several times, and he and Hayes used zip-ties to restrain him. Thus began one of the most savage cases of home invasion in recent memory, one which shocked the nation and left a small town's residents feeling vulnerable and violated.

Over nearly seven hours on the morning of July 23, 2007, Dr. William Petit, along with his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit, and their two daughters would be bound and attacked. Beaten beyond recognition, Dr. Petit would ultimately escape his attackers, stumbling out of his basement and prompting neighbors to call 911. Moments later, Jennifer Hawke-Petit and the two daughters, Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11, were burned in a fire started with gasoline doused around the house. Autopsy reports indicate the mother was raped and strangled before the fire, but the two young women died of asphyxia after being tied to their beds. The two accused killers, Komisarjevsky and Hayes, were captured by police while fleeing the burning home. They await trial in Connecticut for three murders.

Some more on the assault...

Dr. William Petit Testifies in the Trial of Family s Alleged Murderer - ABC News
Hayes, 47, was accused of sexually assaulting and strangling Hawke-Petit. Komisarjevsky, 30, is charged with sexually assaulting Michaela. The two allegedly tied Michaela and Hayley to their beds, poured gasoline on and around them and set the house on fire, killing them.

They used a baseball bat....and raped and murdered a woman and two young girls and brutally beat the husband....without a gun...


Okay Brain357... You are given the chance to give a gun to the husband and wife before this attack...do you...? Not one of the anti gunners on this site or the one I came from will answer this question...they cowardly say that this question is a fallacy or some such nonsense because they know that how they answer will reveal a great deal about who they are....how their irrational fear of guns would compel them to allow these people to suffer this fate even if they could stop it with a gun....right?

 

[Brain357]

Well I don't think concealed carry permits should be handed out like candy. I think too many people carrying around guns is bad for everyone.

Carrying a gun does greatly increase your chances of being shot.

Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

What's your question?

so what is your solution to all those accidental shootings you are so worried about?

 

[Brain357]

Why would I give them guns? They were killed in their sleep and had no chance. Giving them guns would be giving it to the criminals. I'd give them an alarm system and a big dog.

Here is the question following the facts of a violent attack on a family...

Okay...do you have the courage of your convictions....could one of the gun grabbers please answer this question...

A Connecticut Nightmare mdash Introduction mdash Crime Library

Steven Hayes was on standby. The ex-con, bald, pudgy and middle-aged, was waiting in the yard for his younger friend to finish creeping into the house. They wanted it to be quiet.

It was about 3 a.m., and the man of the house was asleep on the porch. Hayes could see him and assumed the man's wife and daughter, about whom he'd heard from his friend, were also asleep. But they didn't know who else could be in the house. After waiting in the damp, early morning, Hayes finally saw his friend, Joshua Komisarjevsky, appear on the porch. He was carrying a baseball bat.

According to Komisarjevsky (pronounced Kom-ih-sore-JEFF-skee), who related his account to journalist Brian McDonald for the book In the Middle of the Night, he hit the sleeping man as hard as he could several times, and he and Hayes used zip-ties to restrain him. Thus began one of the most savage cases of home invasion in recent memory, one which shocked the nation and left a small town's residents feeling vulnerable and violated.

Over nearly seven hours on the morning of July 23, 2007, Dr. William Petit, along with his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit, and their two daughters would be bound and attacked. Beaten beyond recognition, Dr. Petit would ultimately escape his attackers, stumbling out of his basement and prompting neighbors to call 911. Moments later, Jennifer Hawke-Petit and the two daughters, Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11, were burned in a fire started with gasoline doused around the house. Autopsy reports indicate the mother was raped and strangled before the fire, but the two young women died of asphyxia after being tied to their beds. The two accused killers, Komisarjevsky and Hayes, were captured by police while fleeing the burning home. They await trial in Connecticut for three murders.

Some more on the assault...

Dr. William Petit Testifies in the Trial of Family s Alleged Murderer - ABC News
Hayes, 47, was accused of sexually assaulting and strangling Hawke-Petit. Komisarjevsky, 30, is charged with sexually assaulting Michaela. The two allegedly tied Michaela and Hayley to their beds, poured gasoline on and around them and set the house on fire, killing them.

They used a baseball bat....and raped and murdered a woman and two young girls and brutally beat the husband....without a gun...


Okay Brain357... You are given the chance to give a gun to the husband and wife before this attack...do you...? Not one of the anti gunners on this site or the one I came from will answer this question...they cowardly say that this question is a fallacy or some such nonsense because they know that how they answer will reveal a great deal about who they are....how their irrational fear of guns would compel them to allow these people to suffer this fate even if they could stop it with a gun....right?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

do you ever read the actual stories,of lives,saved,with guns....? Theses,people would have had a chance if they had guns and training....but yes...you didn't answer the question...

Anti gunners got to be anti gun.

 

[2aguy]

and driving in a car greatly increases your chance of being injured or killed in a car accident...

 

[Brain357]

And unlike guns, cars are a necessity for many people.

and driving in a car greatly increases your chance of being injured or killed in a car accident...

 

[2aguy]

You do realize that attacks like this, in the dead of night, with the victims attacked by surprise have been won by the victims who have had access to guns...and lives were saved...and alarm systems can be disabled and dogs killed...the alarm system and dog are simply to alert the victims so they can get their guns ready...

so...again...yes or no....would you allow these people to have a gun to stop these monsters...?

 

[2aguy]

And unlike guns, cars are a necessity for many people.

Not really....the government can provide public controlled transportation...private cars,are not necessary in a correctly controlled society...

 

[turtledude]

Well I don't think concealed carry permits should be handed out like candy. I think too many people carrying around guns is bad for everyone.

Carrying a gun does greatly increase your chances of being shot.

Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

What's your question?

so what is your solution to all those accidental shootings you are so worried about?

1) you are a moron if you think those permits are handed out like candy in most states

2) there is no evidence that CCW liberalization has led to any problems

3) you are lying and the DOJ (which I worked for as a federal litigator) determined that armed victims were far less likely to be hurt than compliant ones

Look-if you soil your pants over the thought of carrying a gun-then don't

but don't tell the rest of us we shouldn't carry a gun because you think we are as incompetent as you are when it comes to using one

do you know who is most hurt by more people carrying guns?

1) thugs and rapists

2) moronic gun haters who see their idiotic predictions of BLOOD IN THE STREETS going down the toilet

 

[2aguy]

It's true...studies show that victims who resisted with guns suffered less injury and the crimes weren't completed,more than any other option...the method most likely to get the victim injured...submission to the attacker...

 

[turtledude]

And unlike guns, cars are a necessity for many people.

and driving in a car greatly increases your chance of being injured or killed in a car accident...

I hope to God you are never in a situation where you realize what a stupid comment that is

very few people have died when they needed a car and didn't have one

ever heard of the LaBiancas? they needed a gun and didn't have one. same with many of Ted Bundy's victims

 

[Brain357]

Again, it wouldn't matter if they had a gun because they were killed in their sleep. But sure give them a gun if you want. Give them an alarm, dog, and gun so they will actually survive though.

You do realize that attacks like this, in the dead of night, with the victims attacked by surprise have been won by the victims who have had access to guns...and lives were saved...and alarm systems can be disabled and dogs killed...the alarm system and dog are simply to alert the victims so they can get their guns ready...

so...again...yes or no....would you allow these people to have a gun to stop these monsters...?

 

[turtledude]

It's true...studies show that victims who resisted with guns suffered less injury and the crimes weren't completed,more than any other option...the method most likely to get the victim injured...submission to the attacker...

many liberals think society is at fault for making criminals what they are and thus they think its unfair for a victim to shoot some scum bag who was forced to be a mugger because of the "Bush Economy" etc

 

[Brain357]

And all the people in accidental shootings didn't need one and got shot. Pretty sure that is a much larger number.

And unlike guns, cars are a necessity for many people.

and driving in a car greatly increases your chance of being injured or killed in a car accident...

I hope to God you are never in a situation where you realize what a stupid comment that is

very few people have died when they needed a car and didn't have one

ever heard of the LaBiancas? they needed a gun and didn't have one. same with many of Ted Bundy's victims

 

[turtledude]

Again, it wouldn't matter if they had a gun because they were killed in their sleep. But sure give them a gun if you want. Give them an alarm, dog, and gun so they will actually survive though.

great idea. my dog starts barking if anyone is in 50 yards of the house That gives me time to either (during the day) rack the charging handle on my M4, or (if night) turn on the Gen 3 Military Night scope on said rifle and take up a good defensive position. and if the alarm goes off, well then I am in a good position to deal with someone who may have decided to rob us

 

[turtledude]

And all the people in accidental shootings didn't need one and got shot. Pretty sure that is a much larger number.

You are talking out of your ass now. you just don't like people owning guns (mainly due to their politics I suspect or you are incredibly ignorant) and you are making shit up now

give it up, you have lost any iota of credibility you think you once had

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Another concealed carry owner doing the wrong thing

Is not representative of all who carry a concealed firearm.