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We have gun control already, it's just that we have a super increase in the physco's in this nation now, and why is this ya reckon ? I know why, it's because of radical extremist liberal theology is why, and then the application of this theology with backing from the federal government upon us, whom the feds have been infiltrated by these radicals over the years, where as when it fails, then we are the ones who are supposed to accomodate it or are forced to adjust to it (loss of our freedoms and such), instead of us putting it back into the mental box in which it came out of...
Aristotle makes a valid point though. Well over 99% of our schools have not had a shooting and will probably never have one. Making schools into mini prisons with armed guards may increase the safety factor, but at a cost that does not make much sense if a different, and far more cost effective way can be found to increase safety and security.
What cost are you worried about?
The ones Aristotle brought up in his post and that I have been including as a reasonable component of this debate. If we have to sacriice teacher salaries or endure larger classroom head counts, etc. in order to budget for additional security, then the idea of arming willing and properly trained teachers becomes even more attractive. The odds off them never needing to use that weapon are monumental, but in the very rare occasion that their school becomes another Columbine or Sandy Hook, they would be ready. Mission accomplished without devoting precious education dollars to security guards in every school in the land when more than 99% of them will have little or nothing to do.
So far proponents who argue arming teachers do not have a valid argument.
I am still waiting on the answer to the following
"In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training?
You guys understand that a school district isn't one school right? I am talking about dozens with over a hundred plus teachers. There is no way every single teacher would be armed
Now, here's the thing.
All these folks were batshit crazy. They were still able to get guns.
__________________
No shit, Sherlock. And if you ever come up with a usefull idea on how to keep that from happening we would love to hear it but all this pissing and moaning because the world is the way it is accomplishs nothing and becomes irritating very quickly.
Banning private gun ownership will not turn the country upside down. In fact, when Australia banned guns a couple decades ago, most people complied with the new laws and turned in their guns
I cannot immagine a simpler or more certain way to assure the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Americans. Congats., you top the school shooters by several orders of magnitude.
Banning private gun ownership will not turn the country upside down. In fact, when Australia banned guns a couple decades ago, most people complied with the new laws and turned in their guns
I cannot immagine a simpler or more certain way to assure the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Americans. Congats., you top the school shooters by several orders of magnitude.
One wonders why whichever idiot that was you quoted doesn't see the fatal flaw in his own words: "MOST people complied with the new laws". Yes, well, we already have MOST people complying with the CURRENT laws about not shooting up schools full of children. The problem would be that pesky little minority that ignores laws against murder, and probably aren't going to be all that impressed with NEW laws about owning guns.
So far proponents who argue arming teachers do not have a valid argument.
I am still waiting on the answer to the following
"In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training?
You guys understand that a school district isn't one school right? I am talking about dozens with over a hundred plus teachers. There is no way every single teacher would be armed
It's cheaper than a metal detector or high tech security system or cop/armed security. Many teachers already are armed & have a CCW permit. All we need to do is get out of their way & let them defend themselves & the children. Stop preventing self defense.
"In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training?
Again, you do it by budgeting sceurity first. This is not a complicated concept but, if necessary, have one of special teachers explain it to you.
Also again, "We can't afford it!" is neither true nor an acceptable response.
It matters not, only that what we are talking about in keeping America strong in every way possible matters most, where as it is the most important thinking here. It's all just common sense actually, something that the left just can't figure out as of yet, otherwise how to get around that nasty little gift that many Americans still have.[
Locke emphasizes Life Liberty and Property. Therefore I like to follow suit. Once somebody sees one of his homeboys gunned down while trying to steal a flat screen out of my store, see if anybody else tries it. Also, widespread ownership of weapons deterred a Japanese invasion of the US mainland during WWII. Something to the effect of "guns behind every blade of grass" or something like that was used to describe the number of guns in the US by Japan's military officials. It's a polarized topic no doubt, I'm just glad I've found somebody on the left wing that can properly argue about gun control without coming off as a condescending idiot who uses insults in order to cover their lack of knowledge on the topic.
The story that Admiral Yamamoto Isokuru stated that he wouldn't invade the American mainland because we had so many guns is a myth. He never said it. Nor was it the Japanese Empire's design to invade the CONUS.
How do we know? We contacted Donald M. Goldstein, sometimes called "the dean of Pearl Harbor historians." Among his many books are "The Pearl Harbor Papers: Inside the Japanese Plans" (1993) and the best-selling "At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor" (1981). He is a professor at the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh. He told us the supposed Yamamoto quote is "bogus."
In an exchange of e-mails he said:
Prof. Goldstein: I have never seen it in writing. It has been attributed to the Prange files [the files of the late Gordon W. Prange, chief historian on the staff of Gen. Douglas MacArthur] but no one had ever seen it or cited it from where they got it. Some people say that it came from our work but I never said it. … As of today it is bogus until someone can cite when and where.
FactCheck.org : Misquoting Yamamoto
So much for lack of knowledge. You repeat a gun-nutter myth like it's truth.
Now, besides your racist comment about "homeboys", frankly, I don't think a widescreen is worth killing a person over.
One knows his family and friends yes (everything about them mostly), but when we have strange and odd people spreading out like wildfires all over this nation, and worse they are doing it with the feds or local governments help, then it's so wonder upon what types of characters we now have living all around us anymore in this nation, in which we cannot or better not turn our backs on for sure anylonger.We have gun control already, it's just that we have a super increase in the physco's in this nation now, and why is this ya reckon ? I know why, it's because of radical extremist liberal theology is why, and then the application of this theology with backing from the federal government upon us, whom the feds have been infiltrated by these radicals over the years, where as when it fails, then we are the ones who are supposed to accomodate it or are forced to adjust to it (loss of our freedoms and such), instead of us putting it back into the mental box in which it came out of...
Wow, I think that you may be convincing people about the increase in "physco's", but not really...
We probably don't have any more mentally ill people in this country than we've had in any time in our history, other than more people are being diagnosed now. Before that, we just called our strange relatives "odd" or "eccentric" and we had the good sense to not let them have military grade weapons.
I know 26 good causes, what do you think ?Let's talk about California Concealed Weapons permit (See the following)
What is a California CCW?
A license to carry a concealed firearm on your person in public subject to restrictions placed upon it by statute and the issuing department. The law allows a person to keep a firearm in their home and at their place of business without a permit. No CCW is required to keep a firearm in the home or place of employment if it is your business.
What are the requirements for a California CCW?
1. Legal resident
2. At least 21 years of age
3. Good Cause
4. Good Moral Character
What is Good Cause?You must articulate a situation or circumstances whereby the department can determine you have a need, not a desire, to carry a concealed firearm. There is an Attorney General Opinion which defines Good Cause. See Attorney General Opinion.
How easy is it to get a Californian Concealed Weapon Permit?
This varies from county to county and from city to city. Rural counties are normally easier than suburban counties. Good Cause is the variable that applicants must deal with. Statute and case law require departments to make an individual evaluation of each applicant’s Good Cause. Some departments list on their policies certain professions and occupations that under some circumstances will satisfy their Good Cause requirements.
See Reference: Concealed Firearm Carry Permit in California: Information Database
What is a good cause to carry a concealed weapon? Let's ask the California Attorney General!
The (1977) Attorney General's Opinion on Good Causes
OPINION NO. CR. 77/30 I.L. 'the issuing authority must determine whether the threat to the applicant (or other causal situation) is as real as the applicant asserts (e.g., is there a clear and present danger to the applicant, his spouse, his family or his employees)? Finally, if the danger is manifest, the authority should determine whether that danger cannot be significantly alleviated by alternative means of security and whether in fact can be lawfully mitigated by the applicant's obtaining a concealed weapon license.'
This decision was rendered By Attorney General Evelle J. Younger, August 23, 1977.
See Reference: Concealed Firearm Carry in California: Information Database
So far proponents who argue arming teachers do not have a valid argument.
I am still waiting on the answer to the following
"In a financially cash strapped school district that is furloughing teachers and/or laying them off, how does the school district find the funds to supply teachers with side arms, vests, training?
You guys understand that a school district isn't one school right? I am talking about dozens with over a hundred plus teachers. There is no way every single teacher would be armed
It's cheaper than a metal detector or high tech security system or cop/armed security. Many teachers already are armed & have a CCW permit. All we need to do is get out of their way & let them defend themselves & the children. Stop preventing self defense.
Wait you said "many teachers" so which teachers to which you refer? I live in the state of California one of the most gun strict states, and I know for a fact many teachers from kindergarten to college are not certified in concealed or exposed firearms permit.
Let me give you the actual breakdown of cost (the following is an example):
Firearms training cost (cost may vary depending on who you contract out to):
Standard Courses $200 per person per training day
Handgun I & II, Tactical Rifle, Hunting Rifle, Defensive Shotgun, Defensive Handgun Skills Maintenance (
Advanced/Special Courses $225 per person per training day
Handgun CQB, Advanced Handgun, Vehicle Based Incidents, Advanced Tactical Rifle, Precision Rifle I & II
Seminars $100 per person
Backup Gun/Concealed Carry Seminar, Handgun Low Light Seminar
* $100 deposit is required to hold space in a course ($50 for seminars).
*costs based on a minimum of 8 attendees. Fewer attendees can be accomodated at an increased cost per person.
See reference: Course Costs - Practical Firearms Training
Bulletproof vest:
View attachment 23250
Cost $195-450 (This is the cheapest type vest I found on retailer's website)
Firearms:
Sigsauer P250 9mm
View attachment 23251
Cost: $317-400 (depending on retailer)
How much does it cost to hire police officers for every single school in the city of Sacramento?
According to the Sacramento Bee newspaper since sacramento has approximately 763 public schools (majority lacking police officer based resources) the cost would be anywhere from $110,000, to $140,000 per year which amounts to an annual cost of $83-106 million which is significantly more than the general annual budget. Of course, in the Los Angeles Unified School District since it has its own police department, their cost is also calculated along the budget of the LAUSD. The annual LAUSD budget in 2009-2010 was 7.3 billion now of course this is an old report. The budget is currently sitting around 6.1-6.3 billion.
See reference: LAUSD board approves $6.3B budget; after-school program saved - LA Daily News
Due to the budget crisis within the LAUSD system the district had to shorten the school year (about 175 days per school year calendar). This is how bad it is
"To help balance LAUSD's $6 billion budget, the district's labor
unions had agreed to accept 10 unpaid furlough days, half of them instructional days."
Also
"Since the financial crisis hit in 2008, California has been deferring some of the money due the state's public schools, forcing them to borrow money to cover their own costs.
This year, for instance, LAUSD should have received $6,718 per student, but got only $5,221."
See Reference: LAUSD Furlough Days: With Prop 30 Money, Chief Seeks To Rescind Furloughs, Restore School Calendar
So as you can see depending on certain states and their budgeting along with how much the schools can and cannot afford it is real difficult to discuss arming teachers when states like California which mind you has the eighth largest economy in the world (New York is the second largest), many districts are struggling to not only prolong school years, but also save after school programs (which are known to keep kids active and away from gang influence) along with maintaining teacher salaries.
I agree with Mick North when he said:
"The idea that because the problem is guns, the answer is guns, is simply ridiculous"
"I just do not understand the logic of that. If they arm the teachers does that mean they also have to provide the teachers with body armor?" he asked, seemingly rhetorically. "I understand the intruder on Friday had body armor to protect himself from being shot at. Do the children have to have body armor? How far do we have to go?"
See Reference: Mick North on arming teachers: "The idea that because the problem is guns, the answer is guns, is simply ridiculous" Piers Morgan - CNN.com Blogs
End of the the line, I'm going to continue to carry a gun to protect my family and I, that's all that matters to me, that I feel secure.
No one in power or with authority is talking about banning private gun ownership.
The left crazees yelling, "yes", it has to happen, and the right crazees who simply screaming -- both groups have their collective heads shoved up their collective butts.
The sane portion of America is laughing its head off.
