Anti-abortion activists indicted for undercover videos smearing Planned Parenthood

[C_Clayton_Jones]

BLACKROOK SAID:

"Churches and private charities do a better job than the government. They can help poor people without destroying the family unit."

Nonsense.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Churches and private charities do a better job than the government. They can help poor people without destroying the family unit.

Why aren't they doing it?

Because there is no way they can.

Correct.

Churches and private providers lack the resources, funding, and expertise to appropriately and lawfully administer to the poor, low income families, and the elderly.

Ensuring the health, well-being, and safety of the most vulnerable members of society has always been the responsibility of the people and the public assistance agencies the people have charged with the task of helping the less fortunate.

 

[Synthaholic]

Or maybe you'd like to go back in time and prosecute Woodward and Bernstein for focusing on the crimes of the Nixon administration using undercover tactics?

Which undercover tactics used by Woodward and Bernstein were felonies?

(speaking of felonies, schooling wingnuts is criminally easy!)

 

[Care4all]

What we have here is a fascist type smear job stuffed up their collective ass. Texas also became the 12th state to clear PP of doing anything criminal.

Anti-abortion group indicted for Planned Parenthood videos

Hi JakeStarkey you know by now that I am prochoice, and believe all prolife efforts can be 100% effective in preventing abortion
completely by free choice (as all prolife groups currently operate) and not having to ban abortions or criminalize women.

The commitment shown by the prolife movement is PROOF that abortion can be prevented completely by education, awareness and free choice.
They don't need abortion to be illegal to do all they can to prevent it, and thus so can everyone work to end the causes so abortion is prevented.

Nobody ''accidentally" has sex -- either it is chosen by one or both partners, or it is forced.
So incidents CAN be prevented instead of having sex without intent or ability to bear the child in case of pregnancy.
There is choice or coercion involved in each case, so this can be prevented from abusing sex and relationships to create unwanted pregnancy.

So I see no reason why the Prolife views and beliefs can't be respected and fulfilled completely by free choice and informed consent.
If there were more support for prevention, and not mutual discrediting back and forth,
maybe we'd see less and less of any "sabotage" tactics that aren't necessary but counter-productive.

As for anything PP did wrong, even though I am prochoice and believe that is the default that allows both views to be chosen and funded freely,
I'd say the govt is still in the wrong for using public funds for a program biased against the beliefs of dissenting taxpayers with prolife beliefs.

The proper way to fund PP as with Prolife groups is either
A. separate the funding or
B. agree to only use public money for certain functions where it is AGREED
and CLEAR it is not going into anything that violates the faith of others.
If it is disputed, then separate that funding. Give taxpayers a choice of what to fund or not to fund, especially if we claim to be "prochoice" -- let's be consistent and not force anyone on EITHER side to fund programs that violate their beliefs.

The liberals call this "separation of church and state" and not forcing beliefs on the public through govt
that not everyone share, but may actually oppose. The liberals I know have NO PROBLEM defending their
own prochoice beliefs from infringement by prolife imposition; but are sorely lacking in respecting the equal beliefs of others by this same token.

I am one of the few prochoice people who will go to bat for prolife, short of passing laws that one side or the other protests as unconstitutional.
By the same token I won't support laws biased one way or another that don't protect both views equally as Constitutional law requires.

The reason I see behind these negative counterproductive attacks:
Both the Prochoice and Prolife advocates feel constantly harassed and discriminated against instead of respected for their beliefs.
This causes a 'vicious cycle' of both prolife and prochoice attacking each other's beliefs instead of respecting them equally under law.

If we really want to end the bullying and mean-spirited attacks,
it would help if BOTH sides drop the infighting, and agree to respect and include
each other's beliefs EQUALLY under law as they want their own.

Given the current split over the health care mandates and what to replace them with,
this split over prochoice and prolife funding is why I recommend separating into two tracks, possibly by party.

The point is to ensure that people pay into the BELIEFS of their choice,
aren't forced to pay into anything against their beliefs, and all people have a free choice which group to fund and get coverage through.

Let each party and their members set it up themselves
so they decide the terms of their programs, and how to pay for it.

If one group wants to funnel all their women's health through Planned Parenthood,
they can choose to direct their taxes or health care budget there.

If prolife groups want to fund The Nurturing Network as their model, let them direct their tax dollars there.

Why not let people fund their own political beliefs, the same way we EXPECT them to fund their own religious beliefs.

If there is overlap, then agree on a policy for the public to fund,
and anything that creates dissension, agree to separate into private programs
(such as letting private religious schools teach God and prayer without censorship).

JakeStarkey one positive result I hope to see coming from even the proposal of separating tracks for health care and benefits
(so people don't have to fight over abortion, over same sex or gender/orientation in social benefits, if these are separated and groups by
like beliefs, just like religions are funded separately by affiliation and denomination)
is that we would REDUCE the incidents of these desperate angry attacks,
whether slanderous/libelous media campaigns, or actual bombings and shootings.

It gets me that liberals tend to sympathize when terrorists attack due to unresolved grievances with oppression they are "protesting"
because they are "under attack themselves," but when Prolife advocates who truly believe that abortion is legalized murder argue their beliefs are oppressed, attacked and otherwise denied equal protection, where is the same sympathy for why these people are so angry and aggrieved?

I'm not saying to EXCUSE or justify any such unlawful behavior. It discredits the real effective prolife work that doesn't need underhanded tactics.

I wouldn't defend or excuse that,
but at least we can explain and understand the REASON behind it,
just like there is a REASON terrorists act out violently.

The oppression, if not resolved, comes out as political violence and abuse.
So if we want to solve the problem, we look at the cause not just the symptoms!

Thanks JakeStarkey

Dear Emily,

the federal funding for planned parenthood does NOT go to support abortions, planned parenthood's money comes from Medicaid reimbursement for the medical procedures and doctor's visits of patients who qualify for Medicaid, that receive health care, OTHER THAN ABORTIONS.

Planned parenthood is not reimbursed by the gvt for any abortion, they are only reimbursed for medical procedures other than abortions, for those on MEDICAID...

So, no federal gvt funding goes towards abortions at planned parenthood, or for any Gyno who serves Medicaid patients for abortions performed....they would be reimbursed for other medical care these medicaid recipients receive but NOT for abortions.

so the prochoice people HAVE compromised and given to the prolifers what they want.

but the prolifers continue to LIE about this....

 

[Synthaholic]

Churches and private charities do a better job than the government. They can help poor people without destroying the family unit.

Why aren't they doing it?

Because there is no way they can.

Correct.

Churches and private providers lack the resources, funding, and expertise to appropriately and lawfully administer to the poor, low income families, and the elderly.

Ensuring the health, well-being, and safety of the most vulnerable members of society has always been the responsibility of the people and the public assistance agencies the people have charged with the task of helping the less fortunate.

In addition, church membership nationwide is way down, with many closing or merging congregations with other churches just to pay the few bills they have, since taxpayers carry their asses for taxes.

Over 23% of the country are atheists - that's more than there are Jews or Blacks in America.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Church charity, in ACTION!

Church Sends Woman Collection Notice For Unpaid Tithes

 

[emilynghiem]

What we have here is a fascist type smear job stuffed up their collective ass. Texas also became the 12th state to clear PP of doing anything criminal.

Anti-abortion group indicted for Planned Parenthood videos

Hi JakeStarkey you know by now that I am prochoice, and believe all prolife efforts can be 100% effective in preventing abortion
completely by free choice (as all prolife groups currently operate) and not having to ban abortions or criminalize women.

The commitment shown by the prolife movement is PROOF that abortion can be prevented completely by education, awareness and free choice.
They don't need abortion to be illegal to do all they can to prevent it, and thus so can everyone work to end the causes so abortion is prevented.

Nobody ''accidentally" has sex -- either it is chosen by one or both partners, or it is forced.
So incidents CAN be prevented instead of having sex without intent or ability to bear the child in case of pregnancy.
There is choice or coercion involved in each case, so this can be prevented from abusing sex and relationships to create unwanted pregnancy.

So I see no reason why the Prolife views and beliefs can't be respected and fulfilled completely by free choice and informed consent.
If there were more support for prevention, and not mutual discrediting back and forth,
maybe we'd see less and less of any "sabotage" tactics that aren't necessary but counter-productive.

As for anything PP did wrong, even though I am prochoice and believe that is the default that allows both views to be chosen and funded freely,
I'd say the govt is still in the wrong for using public funds for a program biased against the beliefs of dissenting taxpayers with prolife beliefs.

The proper way to fund PP as with Prolife groups is either
A. separate the funding or
B. agree to only use public money for certain functions where it is AGREED
and CLEAR it is not going into anything that violates the faith of others.
If it is disputed, then separate that funding. Give taxpayers a choice of what to fund or not to fund, especially if we claim to be "prochoice" -- let's be consistent and not force anyone on EITHER side to fund programs that violate their beliefs.

The liberals call this "separation of church and state" and not forcing beliefs on the public through govt
that not everyone share, but may actually oppose. The liberals I know have NO PROBLEM defending their
own prochoice beliefs from infringement by prolife imposition; but are sorely lacking in respecting the equal beliefs of others by this same token.

I am one of the few prochoice people who will go to bat for prolife, short of passing laws that one side or the other protests as unconstitutional.
By the same token I won't support laws biased one way or another that don't protect both views equally as Constitutional law requires.

The reason I see behind these negative counterproductive attacks:
Both the Prochoice and Prolife advocates feel constantly harassed and discriminated against instead of respected for their beliefs.
This causes a 'vicious cycle' of both prolife and prochoice attacking each other's beliefs instead of respecting them equally under law.

If we really want to end the bullying and mean-spirited attacks,
it would help if BOTH sides drop the infighting, and agree to respect and include
each other's beliefs EQUALLY under law as they want their own.

Given the current split over the health care mandates and what to replace them with,
this split over prochoice and prolife funding is why I recommend separating into two tracks, possibly by party.

The point is to ensure that people pay into the BELIEFS of their choice,
aren't forced to pay into anything against their beliefs, and all people have a free choice which group to fund and get coverage through.

Let each party and their members set it up themselves
so they decide the terms of their programs, and how to pay for it.

If one group wants to funnel all their women's health through Planned Parenthood,
they can choose to direct their taxes or health care budget there.

If prolife groups want to fund The Nurturing Network as their model, let them direct their tax dollars there.

Why not let people fund their own political beliefs, the same way we EXPECT them to fund their own religious beliefs.

If there is overlap, then agree on a policy for the public to fund,
and anything that creates dissension, agree to separate into private programs
(such as letting private religious schools teach God and prayer without censorship).

JakeStarkey one positive result I hope to see coming from even the proposal of separating tracks for health care and benefits
(so people don't have to fight over abortion, over same sex or gender/orientation in social benefits, if these are separated and groups by
like beliefs, just like religions are funded separately by affiliation and denomination)
is that we would REDUCE the incidents of these desperate angry attacks,
whether slanderous/libelous media campaigns, or actual bombings and shootings.

It gets me that liberals tend to sympathize when terrorists attack due to unresolved grievances with oppression they are "protesting"
because they are "under attack themselves," but when Prolife advocates who truly believe that abortion is legalized murder argue their beliefs are oppressed, attacked and otherwise denied equal protection, where is the same sympathy for why these people are so angry and aggrieved?

I'm not saying to EXCUSE or justify any such unlawful behavior. It discredits the real effective prolife work that doesn't need underhanded tactics.

I wouldn't defend or excuse that,
but at least we can explain and understand the REASON behind it,
just like there is a REASON terrorists act out violently.

The oppression, if not resolved, comes out as political violence and abuse.
So if we want to solve the problem, we look at the cause not just the symptoms!

Thanks JakeStarkey

Dear Emily,

the federal funding for planned parenthood does NOT go to support abortions, planned parenthood's money comes from Medicaid reimbursement for the medical procedures and doctor's visits of patients who qualify for Medicaid, that receive health care, OTHER THAN ABORTIONS.

Planned parenthood is not reimbursed by the gvt for any abortion, they are only reimbursed for medical procedures other than abortions, for those on MEDICAID...

So, no federal gvt funding goes towards abortions at planned parenthood, or for any Gyno who serves Medicaid patients for abortions performed....they would be reimbursed for other medical care these medicaid recipients receive but NOT for abortions.

so the prochoice people HAVE compromised and given to the prolifers what they want.

but the prolifers continue to LIE about this....

Dear Care4all
If they don't BELIEVE or trust that group, they should not have to fund them.
These are private social decisions, so why not let people have equal and free choice to
fund the social programs we believe in, similar to which religious groups we want to fund.

There is nothing that requires us to pay for all such services through govt.
These can be done privately, and give people a choice.

Just because YOU believe this PP group doesn't mean you can
FORCE that belief on others. If they say they don't believe in funding
this group that goes against their conscience, creeds or beliefs,
how is it govt's place to FORCE them to fund that?

I wish we'd just listen and respect each other's beliefs.

It seems VERY immature to have to go running to govt
to MAKE someone do X Y Z anytime we want to force funding.

Why not set up such good health care and social programs that people WANT to give?

Doctors without borders and other nonprofits have good reputations in effectiveness
that people CHOOSE to give. Why can we respect free choice in charity
instead of mandating it, especially in areas that involve clashing political beliefs.

That clash should be a sign we need to separate these two groups,
and let them fund and run their own programs,
similar to Protestants and Catholics being independent
or Hindus and Muslims. Why try to mandate one policy for everyone to fund
if our beliefs clash otherwise?

 

[Care4all]

What we have here is a fascist type smear job stuffed up their collective ass. Texas also became the 12th state to clear PP of doing anything criminal.

Anti-abortion group indicted for Planned Parenthood videos

Hi JakeStarkey you know by now that I am prochoice, and believe all prolife efforts can be 100% effective in preventing abortion
completely by free choice (as all prolife groups currently operate) and not having to ban abortions or criminalize women.

The commitment shown by the prolife movement is PROOF that abortion can be prevented completely by education, awareness and free choice.
They don't need abortion to be illegal to do all they can to prevent it, and thus so can everyone work to end the causes so abortion is prevented.

Nobody ''accidentally" has sex -- either it is chosen by one or both partners, or it is forced.
So incidents CAN be prevented instead of having sex without intent or ability to bear the child in case of pregnancy.
There is choice or coercion involved in each case, so this can be prevented from abusing sex and relationships to create unwanted pregnancy.

So I see no reason why the Prolife views and beliefs can't be respected and fulfilled completely by free choice and informed consent.
If there were more support for prevention, and not mutual discrediting back and forth,
maybe we'd see less and less of any "sabotage" tactics that aren't necessary but counter-productive.

As for anything PP did wrong, even though I am prochoice and believe that is the default that allows both views to be chosen and funded freely,
I'd say the govt is still in the wrong for using public funds for a program biased against the beliefs of dissenting taxpayers with prolife beliefs.

The proper way to fund PP as with Prolife groups is either
A. separate the funding or
B. agree to only use public money for certain functions where it is AGREED
and CLEAR it is not going into anything that violates the faith of others.
If it is disputed, then separate that funding. Give taxpayers a choice of what to fund or not to fund, especially if we claim to be "prochoice" -- let's be consistent and not force anyone on EITHER side to fund programs that violate their beliefs.

The liberals call this "separation of church and state" and not forcing beliefs on the public through govt
that not everyone share, but may actually oppose. The liberals I know have NO PROBLEM defending their
own prochoice beliefs from infringement by prolife imposition; but are sorely lacking in respecting the equal beliefs of others by this same token.

I am one of the few prochoice people who will go to bat for prolife, short of passing laws that one side or the other protests as unconstitutional.
By the same token I won't support laws biased one way or another that don't protect both views equally as Constitutional law requires.

The reason I see behind these negative counterproductive attacks:
Both the Prochoice and Prolife advocates feel constantly harassed and discriminated against instead of respected for their beliefs.
This causes a 'vicious cycle' of both prolife and prochoice attacking each other's beliefs instead of respecting them equally under law.

If we really want to end the bullying and mean-spirited attacks,
it would help if BOTH sides drop the infighting, and agree to respect and include
each other's beliefs EQUALLY under law as they want their own.

Given the current split over the health care mandates and what to replace them with,
this split over prochoice and prolife funding is why I recommend separating into two tracks, possibly by party.

The point is to ensure that people pay into the BELIEFS of their choice,
aren't forced to pay into anything against their beliefs, and all people have a free choice which group to fund and get coverage through.

Let each party and their members set it up themselves
so they decide the terms of their programs, and how to pay for it.

If one group wants to funnel all their women's health through Planned Parenthood,
they can choose to direct their taxes or health care budget there.

If prolife groups want to fund The Nurturing Network as their model, let them direct their tax dollars there.

Why not let people fund their own political beliefs, the same way we EXPECT them to fund their own religious beliefs.

If there is overlap, then agree on a policy for the public to fund,
and anything that creates dissension, agree to separate into private programs
(such as letting private religious schools teach God and prayer without censorship).

JakeStarkey one positive result I hope to see coming from even the proposal of separating tracks for health care and benefits
(so people don't have to fight over abortion, over same sex or gender/orientation in social benefits, if these are separated and groups by
like beliefs, just like religions are funded separately by affiliation and denomination)
is that we would REDUCE the incidents of these desperate angry attacks,
whether slanderous/libelous media campaigns, or actual bombings and shootings.

It gets me that liberals tend to sympathize when terrorists attack due to unresolved grievances with oppression they are "protesting"
because they are "under attack themselves," but when Prolife advocates who truly believe that abortion is legalized murder argue their beliefs are oppressed, attacked and otherwise denied equal protection, where is the same sympathy for why these people are so angry and aggrieved?

I'm not saying to EXCUSE or justify any such unlawful behavior. It discredits the real effective prolife work that doesn't need underhanded tactics.

I wouldn't defend or excuse that,
but at least we can explain and understand the REASON behind it,
just like there is a REASON terrorists act out violently.

The oppression, if not resolved, comes out as political violence and abuse.
So if we want to solve the problem, we look at the cause not just the symptoms!

Thanks JakeStarkey

Dear Emily,

the federal funding for planned parenthood does NOT go to support abortions, planned parenthood's money comes from Medicaid reimbursement for the medical procedures and doctor's visits of patients who qualify for Medicaid, that receive health care, OTHER THAN ABORTIONS.

Planned parenthood is not reimbursed by the gvt for any abortion, they are only reimbursed for medical procedures other than abortions, for those on MEDICAID...

So, no federal gvt funding goes towards abortions at planned parenthood, or for any Gyno who serves Medicaid patients for abortions performed....they would be reimbursed for other medical care these medicaid recipients receive but NOT for abortions.

so the prochoice people HAVE compromised and given to the prolifers what they want.

but the prolifers continue to LIE about this....

Dear Care4all
If they don't BELIEVE or trust that group, they should not have to fund them.
These are private social decisions, so why not let people have equal and free choice to
fund the social programs we believe in, similar to which religious groups we want to fund.

There is nothing that requires us to pay for all such services through govt.
These can be done privately, and give people a choice.

Just because YOU believe this PP group doesn't mean you can
FORCE that belief on others. If they say they don't believe in funding
this group that goes against their conscience, creeds or beliefs,
how is it govt's place to FORCE them to fund that?

I wish we'd just listen and respect each other's beliefs.

It seems VERY immature to have to go running to govt
to MAKE someone do X Y Z anytime we want to force funding.

Why not set up such good health care and social programs that people WANT to give?

Doctors without borders and other nonprofits have good reputations in effectiveness
that people CHOOSE to give. Why can we respect free choice in charity
instead of mandating it, especially in areas that involve clashing political beliefs.

That clash should be a sign we need to separate these two groups,
and let them fund and run their own programs,
similar to Protestants and Catholics being independent
or Hindus and Muslims. Why try to mandate one policy for everyone to fund
if our beliefs clash otherwise?

huh? planned parenthood's abortion clinics receive no federal money for their abortions, do you understand that?

 

[emilynghiem]

Churches and private charities do a better job than the government. They can help poor people without destroying the family unit.

Why aren't they doing it?

Because there is no way they can.

Correct.

Churches and private providers lack the resources, funding, and expertise to appropriately and lawfully administer to the poor, low income families, and the elderly.

Ensuring the health, well-being, and safety of the most vulnerable members of society has always been the responsibility of the people and the public assistance agencies the people have charged with the task of helping the less fortunate.

Dear C_Clayton_Jones
That's YOUR belief. I find it lacking, in dangerous ways.
Some of the cures beyond what medicine can do
are coming from the very church communities you say are not able to administer to the poor.

I've been researching church ministries that have healed CANCER, MENTAL ILLNESS INCLUDING
SCHIZOPHRENIA and other mental and physical illnesses in MUCH MORE effective and natural
ways than the govt and public services can do that remain secular and/or rely on drugs that
merely placate symptoms. This is costing money and lives NOT solving the problems;
while spiritual healing finds the root cause of illness and cures it so it ENDS the symptoms.

That saves lives and money, as well as minds, bodies and whole relationships healed as a result.

C_Clayton_Jones
Just because you have NO KNOWLEDGE of these fields does not mean this doesn't exist.
How dangerous of you to assume so, and basically deny and deprive lifesaving help to people
because you are running around misteaching things, omitting the solutions that Christianity has
long practiced and is waiting on further medical research to replicate this so more people learn it is valid.

In fact, if you don't have FULL KNOWLEDGE than you SHOULDN'T be making decisions
if other people DO have that knowledge that you lack. Again, how presumptions and just
plain dangerous and unethical to deny lifesaving help to people in need because of your own ignorance!

Before you go and dictate and assume, I suggest you look into the same medical
research studies that I am asking to replicate so MORE people can have this knowledge that is lifesaving.
SEE freespiritualhealing for some of the resources I most recommend for research

This would SAVE RESOURCES so more lives, minds, people's health, relations and whole communities
can be saved from diseases, crime, addiction and abuse, any number of social and physical or mental ills
that this SPIRITUAL HEALING has cured at the root cause.

So it is more effective combined with the other mental and physical treatments available
because it heals the WHOLE PERSON including the root causes.

How else are we going to cover the whole population unless we find the most effective means possible?
A key part of the solution is found WITHIN the church community, not by avoiding it.

 

[emilynghiem]

What we have here is a fascist type smear job stuffed up their collective ass. Texas also became the 12th state to clear PP of doing anything criminal.

Anti-abortion group indicted for Planned Parenthood videos

Hi JakeStarkey you know by now that I am prochoice, and believe all prolife efforts can be 100% effective in preventing abortion
completely by free choice (as all prolife groups currently operate) and not having to ban abortions or criminalize women.

The commitment shown by the prolife movement is PROOF that abortion can be prevented completely by education, awareness and free choice.
They don't need abortion to be illegal to do all they can to prevent it, and thus so can everyone work to end the causes so abortion is prevented.

Nobody ''accidentally" has sex -- either it is chosen by one or both partners, or it is forced.
So incidents CAN be prevented instead of having sex without intent or ability to bear the child in case of pregnancy.
There is choice or coercion involved in each case, so this can be prevented from abusing sex and relationships to create unwanted pregnancy.

So I see no reason why the Prolife views and beliefs can't be respected and fulfilled completely by free choice and informed consent.
If there were more support for prevention, and not mutual discrediting back and forth,
maybe we'd see less and less of any "sabotage" tactics that aren't necessary but counter-productive.

As for anything PP did wrong, even though I am prochoice and believe that is the default that allows both views to be chosen and funded freely,
I'd say the govt is still in the wrong for using public funds for a program biased against the beliefs of dissenting taxpayers with prolife beliefs.

The proper way to fund PP as with Prolife groups is either
A. separate the funding or
B. agree to only use public money for certain functions where it is AGREED
and CLEAR it is not going into anything that violates the faith of others.
If it is disputed, then separate that funding. Give taxpayers a choice of what to fund or not to fund, especially if we claim to be "prochoice" -- let's be consistent and not force anyone on EITHER side to fund programs that violate their beliefs.

The liberals call this "separation of church and state" and not forcing beliefs on the public through govt
that not everyone share, but may actually oppose. The liberals I know have NO PROBLEM defending their
own prochoice beliefs from infringement by prolife imposition; but are sorely lacking in respecting the equal beliefs of others by this same token.

I am one of the few prochoice people who will go to bat for prolife, short of passing laws that one side or the other protests as unconstitutional.
By the same token I won't support laws biased one way or another that don't protect both views equally as Constitutional law requires.

The reason I see behind these negative counterproductive attacks:
Both the Prochoice and Prolife advocates feel constantly harassed and discriminated against instead of respected for their beliefs.
This causes a 'vicious cycle' of both prolife and prochoice attacking each other's beliefs instead of respecting them equally under law.

If we really want to end the bullying and mean-spirited attacks,
it would help if BOTH sides drop the infighting, and agree to respect and include
each other's beliefs EQUALLY under law as they want their own.

Given the current split over the health care mandates and what to replace them with,
this split over prochoice and prolife funding is why I recommend separating into two tracks, possibly by party.

The point is to ensure that people pay into the BELIEFS of their choice,
aren't forced to pay into anything against their beliefs, and all people have a free choice which group to fund and get coverage through.

Let each party and their members set it up themselves
so they decide the terms of their programs, and how to pay for it.

If one group wants to funnel all their women's health through Planned Parenthood,
they can choose to direct their taxes or health care budget there.

If prolife groups want to fund The Nurturing Network as their model, let them direct their tax dollars there.

Why not let people fund their own political beliefs, the same way we EXPECT them to fund their own religious beliefs.

If there is overlap, then agree on a policy for the public to fund,
and anything that creates dissension, agree to separate into private programs
(such as letting private religious schools teach God and prayer without censorship).

JakeStarkey one positive result I hope to see coming from even the proposal of separating tracks for health care and benefits
(so people don't have to fight over abortion, over same sex or gender/orientation in social benefits, if these are separated and groups by
like beliefs, just like religions are funded separately by affiliation and denomination)
is that we would REDUCE the incidents of these desperate angry attacks,
whether slanderous/libelous media campaigns, or actual bombings and shootings.

It gets me that liberals tend to sympathize when terrorists attack due to unresolved grievances with oppression they are "protesting"
because they are "under attack themselves," but when Prolife advocates who truly believe that abortion is legalized murder argue their beliefs are oppressed, attacked and otherwise denied equal protection, where is the same sympathy for why these people are so angry and aggrieved?

I'm not saying to EXCUSE or justify any such unlawful behavior. It discredits the real effective prolife work that doesn't need underhanded tactics.

I wouldn't defend or excuse that,
but at least we can explain and understand the REASON behind it,
just like there is a REASON terrorists act out violently.

The oppression, if not resolved, comes out as political violence and abuse.
So if we want to solve the problem, we look at the cause not just the symptoms!

Thanks JakeStarkey

Dear Emily,

the federal funding for planned parenthood does NOT go to support abortions, planned parenthood's money comes from Medicaid reimbursement for the medical procedures and doctor's visits of patients who qualify for Medicaid, that receive health care, OTHER THAN ABORTIONS.

Planned parenthood is not reimbursed by the gvt for any abortion, they are only reimbursed for medical procedures other than abortions, for those on MEDICAID...

So, no federal gvt funding goes towards abortions at planned parenthood, or for any Gyno who serves Medicaid patients for abortions performed....they would be reimbursed for other medical care these medicaid recipients receive but NOT for abortions.

so the prochoice people HAVE compromised and given to the prolifers what they want.

but the prolifers continue to LIE about this....

Dear Care4all
If they don't BELIEVE or trust that group, they should not have to fund them.
These are private social decisions, so why not let people have equal and free choice to
fund the social programs we believe in, similar to which religious groups we want to fund.

There is nothing that requires us to pay for all such services through govt.
These can be done privately, and give people a choice.

Just because YOU believe this PP group doesn't mean you can
FORCE that belief on others. If they say they don't believe in funding
this group that goes against their conscience, creeds or beliefs,
how is it govt's place to FORCE them to fund that?

I wish we'd just listen and respect each other's beliefs.

It seems VERY immature to have to go running to govt
to MAKE someone do X Y Z anytime we want to force funding.

Why not set up such good health care and social programs that people WANT to give?

Doctors without borders and other nonprofits have good reputations in effectiveness
that people CHOOSE to give. Why can we respect free choice in charity
instead of mandating it, especially in areas that involve clashing political beliefs.

That clash should be a sign we need to separate these two groups,
and let them fund and run their own programs,
similar to Protestants and Catholics being independent
or Hindus and Muslims. Why try to mandate one policy for everyone to fund
if our beliefs clash otherwise?

huh? planned parenthood's abortion clinics receive no federal money for their abortions, do you understand that?

The PROLIFE groups do NOT WANT TO FUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD.
Do you understand that Care4all

If I don't want to fund Muslims should I be forced to by Govt?
If someone doesn't want to fund Buddhists, or schools run by Scientologists
because something in their policy violates their beliefs, then so be it!

Health care involves private decisions, choices and beliefs.
NOBODY should be forced to fund things against their beliefs.

Let people have free choice. Let other people fund that who believe in that.
We shouldn't even be having this argument.

It's like the global warming argument. Why not agree on ending pollution, restoring
the environment. WHY INSIST on forcing something on someone they just don't believe in.

Why can't it remain a private choice like any other charity or social cause?'
Why this insistence on ramming it through govt when people have clearly said NO they DON'T CONSENT.

I thought NO meant NO?
How are we ever going to stop bullying and rape
if you insist on overriding when someone says NO I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

Why keep forcing it more, how is that not causing
damage to force that level of coercion abusing govt to do so?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Emilyng, I follow what you are saying.

Once the pro-life has committed to pre-natal and after birth support for a mother including shelter, food, etc., plus job training, I would be glad to join your effort.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Just another example of wrong headed conservative thinking. You would think they would tire of being wrong but I guess not.
Will Fiorina apologize for her crass smears of PP over those videos?

 

[JoeB131]

The baby killers and their supporters rub their grimy little hands with glee

When you wingnuts stop trying to snatch food out of the mouths of hungry children, I'll start taking you seriously on your concern for the "babies".

 

[jillian]

Just another example of wrong headed conservative thinking. You would think they would tire of being wrong but I guess not.
Will Fiorina apologize for her crass smears of PP over those videos?

of course she won't. she'd rather trolls like the ones on this board keep lying.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

The baby killers and their supporters rub their grimy little hands with glee

When you wingnuts stop trying to snatch food out of the mouths of hungry children, I'll start taking you seriously on your concern for the "babies".

I and the vast majority couldn't care less what you take serious. Support baby killing and you're nothing but a coward. You can't change that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Jill, you are either ignorant or intentionally lying. Even you are smart enough to know that people are not indicted for making accusations. People are arrested for secretly filming others who are unaware they are being filmed while negotiating the sale of a fetus for cash and / or a Lamborghini...

You should really stop repeating the lies made up by your wackos

But you won't because you're a pathological little troll

I see I underestimated you - you really are that stupid, to think people are actually indicted for making allegations.... My bad.

It's always funny when an ignorant troll sitting in his mommy's basement like you calls others stupid



It's always the people who are too unhinged to govern their own lives who want to tell everyone else what decisions to make.

Your extremist lunacy does not give some group of wackos the right to lie and fabricate like the people who just got their ugly butts indicted.

From the link. Which you are clearly incapable of following:

“

These anti-abortion extremists spent three years creating a fake company, creating fake identities, lying, and breaking the law,” he said. “These people broke the law to spread malicious lies about Planned Parenthood in order to advance their extreme anti-abortion political agenda. As the dust settles and the truth comes out, it’s become totally clear that the only people who engaged in wrongdoing are the criminals behind this fraud, and we’re glad they’re being held accountable

Maybe you should stop trying to divest women of their rights just because you're a misogynist theocrat.

When did women get the right to force me to pay for their abortions?

Ask congress.
Being that it's not legal for public money to fund abortion and PP is not guilty of doing so, it's your wrongheaded thinking that is causing you grief, not PP.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Already two threads on this. You afraid your talking points memos are getting too far down the page?

Actually my husband just brought up a very good point, the dems behind this may rue the day this happened. Let it go to trial, the videos go in as evidence, PP officials testify under oath, a smart attorney uses discovery to start digging very deep into PP operations and can document any sale of fetal remains and revenues generated.

Yes, let's do this. If all else fails Gov Abbot pardons the video maker LOL

why would you think he'd waste political capital on lying scum?

You're missing the point, once it goes to trial anything about PP is fair game, the defense can also subpoena any company that did business with PP. You know the ones that suddenly stopped when all this came to light. You think they will fall on a sword for PP? No

When did you get your law degree?

I didn't I married one. He's also a very good attorney....something I suspect PP should have consulted with before opening this can of worms.

Where do you get the idea that a criminal trial of the video makers opens up everything about PP as fair game?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

How many threads to the baby killing supporters need to gloat that other baby killers and body part sellers are LITERALLY getting away with murder?

There actually must be a crime committed in order to get away with it.

 

[mamooth]

It is not a crime to reveal the truth though undercover reporting.

And as nobody was charged for any such thing, you're just openly lying here, obviously in the service of those authoritarian masters who you obey without question. Since you're so proudly being so pathologically dishonest on behalf of TheState and TheParty, every decent person is now obligated to spit on the sidewalk as you pass by.

People were charged for tampering with a government record. Biotech companies have to get various government permits and licensing. They forged all that. That's a crime. It would seem to be an open-and-shut case, so it's hard to see how they'll beat that rap. And given that PP has also recently sued the pro-life criminals in civil court, it's clear PP has nothing to hide, and very much welcomes any kind of trial and investigation to present their case.

I think the most hilarious thing here is how the governor and the DA were expecting that the grand jury would indict PP. Instead, the honest citizens on the grand jury refused to go along with their corrupt agenda. Instead, the citizens looked at facts and evidence (always bad for conservative causes), which led them to the obvious and morally correct conclusion that the pro-life criminals were the ones needing to be indicted.

Thus, we have two videos appropriate to the situation. This one applies to the pro-life criminals.



And this applies to Gov. Abbott and pro-lifers in general.

 

[SwimExpert]

Harris grand jury indicts pair behind Planned Parenthood videos


The indictment of journalists who uncovered a major story about Planned Parenthood is a complete demolishment of the First Amendment.

None of us are safe now. If you're wondering what this is, it's tyranny.

At some point, people are going to say "enough."

The 1st amendment doesn't cover tampering with government records, or manufacturing fake drivers licenses with intent to defraud. Those seem to the be charges.

But listen, I lived in Texas once upon a time. If you think that the government is full of tyranny, I'm inclined to agree to a certain degree. The place is a cesspit.